Obama Budget Speech Lays an Egg!

the downward spiral was a hoax instituted by the elite of both parties (ie billionaires club).
You've heard of the divergence of Main Street and Wall Street, well Mainstreet would have gone about thier daily business. They don't reap the billions in profits, yet they pay for the trillions in loses.
Capitalism is great, it's outcomes frequently are not remotely fairly or evenly distributed.
 
Onceler said:
Man, as soon as you guys get one quote from the "left" that supports you, you milk it to death.

You ignore the dozens of positive steps the economy has taken in the last 6 months to make your point. February of 2008 was a "miserable" economy. Today is better - MUCH better. And please don't be tinfoil - I'm not saying it's "amazing." But to say it isn't much better is pure denial.
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Only if you think that the same is better. The growth in jobs numbers isn't even enough to halfway cover new entries into the jobs market let alone covering those who already lost their jobs. The housing numbers continue to tumble (California's reports two days ago were seriously dismal), and the growth in the economy isn't even halfway close to a sustainable recovery. And for this we spent TRILLIONS, not Billions, TRILLIONS.

That is failure, plain and simple. When Bush was spending Billions extra for no value I was happy to tell you so.
 
Topspin said:
the downward spiral was a hoax instituted by the elite of both parties (ie billionaires club).
You've heard of the divergence of Main Street and Wall Street, well Mainstreet would have gone about thier daily business. They don't reap the billions in profits, yet they pay for the trillions in loses.
Capitalism is great, it's outcomes frequently are not remotely fairly or evenly distributed.
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I kind of disagree with that. Even average working Americans have come to measure the economy based at least party on how the market is doing. But, more importantly, when the market crashes, businesses tend to panic, and will always lay people off to play it safe, even if economic fundamentals have little bearing on a crash...
 
Damocles said:
Only if you think that the same is better. The growth in jobs numbers isn't even enough to halfway cover new entries into the jobs market let alone covering those who already lost their jobs. The housing numbers continue to tumble (California's reports two days ago were seriously dismal), and the growth in the economy isn't even halfway close to a sustainable recovery. And for this we spent TRILLIONS, not Billions, TRILLIONS.
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This isn't "the same", Damo. The economy was spiraling downward when the stimulus passed. Now, it's growing.

You have some difficulty with basic economics, it appears...
 
Let's see I'm in oil, were any of you going to completly stop driving? No, Ok my business was and is ok.

Not many of us are employed by the billionaire elite on wallstreet, they layoff affect you talk about was blown up
intentially by them spreading fear. Mainstreet was not about to close or even deep spyral.
 
Onceler said:
This isn't "the same", Damo. The economy was spiraling downward when the stimulus passed. Now, it's growing.

You have some difficulty with basic economics, it appears...
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:rolleyes:

The "success" of the stimulus is a net zero from when we hit bottom and for this you cheer? It isn't me who has issues with basic economics. First, we have to ignore how long it took for any of that money to reach anything remotely "stimulus" (remember how we asked why it wasn't being spent right away), during that period we hit bottom... The stimulus has produced no provable gains, Bennett was right, we spent our treasure and got nothing in return.

And the Administrations answer? Double-down.

It isn't working so throw more money at it. It's the solution to everything. Schools, the stimulus, welfare, etc.

We spent TRILLIONS, quite literally printing money from thin air, and we've received almost no real gains from it. That is fail. It is real fail. We cannot afford to keep this guy in office.
 
Frankly, Damo, it's kind of a waste of time talking to you on this. Anyone who thinks that an economy that is spiraling downward with consecutive quarters of negative GDP = an economy that is growing with consecutive quarters of positive GDP is clearly missing some economic know-how.

And "almost no real gains" is laughable. You are clearly letting your extreme partisanship blind you to reality.
 
recession come and recessions go, and I've seen a bunch. We have spent to get out of them before, never remotely as much and never with this lack of provable success.
 
Onceler said:
Frankly, Damo, it's kind of a waste of time talking to you on this. Anyone who thinks that an economy that is spiraling downward with consecutive quarters of negative GDP = an economy that is growing with consecutive quarters of positive GDP is clearly missing some economic know-how.

And "almost no real gains" is laughable. You are clearly letting your extreme partisanship blind you to reality.
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And it is worthless speaking with somebody who thinks that this crappy "growth" is worth the Trillions we threw at it. You're running backwards towards the cliff because you can't get yourself to turn away from the "awesome" that is Obama. Seriously, if you think this was success then I seriously am afraid of what you might think is failure.
 
Topspin said:
Let's see I'm in oil, were any of you going to completly stop driving? No, Ok my business was and is ok.

Not many of us are employed by the billionaire elite on wallstreet, they layoff affect you talk about was blown up
intentially by them spreading fear. Mainstreet was not about to close or even deep spyral.
Click to expand...

There is yet, another fight in Alaska going on about what to tax the oil industry. The thing I wish they would do is make them act on their leases, either give them up and let someone else drill or start to develop them! BP and Conoco sit on most of the leases and they have for sometime. It just makes me so angry!!!!! They wait until it is most profitable for them, and you can't blame them for that, itis the State of Alaska that blew it when they put these tracts up for sale and put no time limit on the leases! Stupid is as stupid does!
 
Damocles said:
Oh, I have no problem admitting to some partisanship. I do, however, trust people like our illustrious Senator Bennett who tells me we spent Trillions with little to no value returned, and that's a supporter of Obama's...

Seriously, you have to deliberately ignore the miserable state of the economy to pretend that we've gotten our value from the Trillions we have spent to supposedly "stimulate" the economy. We spent trillions to get thousands in value...
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Some, oh come on Damo, if you admit it, admit it with ZEAL!

Damo: I am partisan, what the hell you gonna do about it Boyah?
 
Damocles said:
And it is worthless speaking with somebody who thinks that this crappy "growth" is worth the Trillions we threw at it. You're running backwards towards the cliff because you can't get yourself to turn away from the "awesome" that is Obama. Seriously, if you think this was success then I seriously am afraid of what you might think is failure.
Click to expand...


What "Trillions?" There was the stimulus, which was about $800 billion. Where'd you find the other 1.2 Trillion to get your "Trillions?"
 
Damocles said:
And it is worthless speaking with somebody who thinks that this crappy "growth" is worth the Trillions we threw at it. You're running backwards towards the cliff because you can't get yourself to turn away from the "awesome" that is Obama. Seriously, if you think this was success then I seriously am afraid of what you might think is failure.
Click to expand...

Nah; your arguments are rife with exaggeration because you don't have a leg to stand on. I don't think Obama is awesome, and won't be voting for him in '12. Like I said, I applaud both he AND Bush for the bailouts and stimulus, without which the economy would be in much, much worse shape.

You're just playing the whole Obama-lover card because it's all you've got. This is one of the more embarassing displays I have seen from you, without question.
 
Onceler said:
Nah; your arguments are rife with exaggeration because you don't have a leg to stand on. I don't think Obama is awesome, and won't be voting for him in '12. Like I said, I applaud both he AND Bush for the bailouts and stimulus, without which the economy would be in much, much worse shape.

You're just playing the whole Obama-lover card because it's all you've got. This is one of the more embarassing displays I have seen from you, without question.
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Oh, gawd, does that mean Trump is your chump?
 
Rana said:
There is yet, another fight in Alaska going on about what to tax the oil industry. The thing I wish they would do is make them act on their leases, either give them up and let someone else drill or start to develop them! BP and Conoco sit on most of the leases and they have for sometime. It just makes me so angry!!!!! They wait until it is most profitable for them, and you can't blame them for that, itis the State of Alaska that blew it when they put these tracts up for sale and put no time limit on the leases! Stupid is as stupid does!
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A couple things, 1 the republicans are more tied to defending oil than dems are to supporting teachers unions.
The other thing is: no offense but you need way more knowledge to address the lease issue, you are parroting a leftwing talking point. Companies pay lease rentals to the government on EVERY lease annually. And the lease terms are generally 10 years or less. Guess what, no drill in 10 the gov gets it back and can lease it to someone else. Sorry nobody is sitting on leases that they think are better than what they are drilling and producing.

I've spend 30 years in capital allocation deciding these things.
 
NigelTufnel said:
What "Trillions?" There was the stimulus, which was about $800 billion. Where'd you find the other 1.2 Trillion to get your "Trillions?"
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Which ignores extra programs that were not included in that bill. It's impossible to hold a conversation with people who ignore factual information in order to maintain a fantastic worldview. Tell me what the defense was for outspending Bush by a trillion in the next year after the stimulus? It was because "we needed to do it to save the economy"... The stimulus wasn't even all spent yet, and we still maintained more spending... We gave away money to people to buy cars.. we gave away money for people to buy houses...

We've spent TRILLIONS on this, and we've gotten this crappy half-assed almost growth that doesn't even keep up with new entries into the job market? It wasn't worth it.
 
Look Obama had a huge win, and he buried the democratic spending wish list in the stimulus (I loved to see some dem loved ideas that didn't get funded). Most of us would think bridges, high speed rail, new battery development for hybrids as stimulus.
Not unlimited unemployment, more welfare, and funding broke states daily waistefull spending as stimulus. When that is done the pot is dry and the lazy bum is still unemployed.
 
Topspin said:
A couple things, 1 the republicans are more tied to defending oil than dems are to supporting teachers unions.
The other thing is: no offense but you need way more knowledge to address the lease issue, you are parroting a leftwing talking point. Companies pay lease rentals to the government on EVERY lease annually. And the lease terms are generally 10 years or less. Guess what, no drill in 10 the gov gets it back and can lease it to someone else. Sorry nobody is sitting on leases that they think are better than what they are drilling and producing.

I've spend 30 years in capital allocation deciding these things.
Click to expand...

I have spent 30 years as a wife of an oilfield worker and I get the inside scoop. i know of things that the general public doesn't, and I know engineers from Conoco and BP who like to talk shit when they have a few drinks under their belts! There have been articles on the issue too, I will try to find them for you. It was one of Palin's biggest beefs with the industry, so you better bone up on your Alaska oil lease knowledge!

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/03/31/v-print/111309/alaska-sens-murkowski-begich-want.html
 
Anyway... If you go just by the Stimulus bill itself...

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/02/12/true-cost-of-stimulus-327-trillion/

And that is solely that stimulus, taking a realistic approach that supposed "temporary" spending increases actually won't be temporary, just ask the CBO.

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) asked the Congressional Budget Office to estimate the impact of permanently extending the 20 most popular provisions of the stimulus bill. What did the CBO find? As you can see from the table below, the true 10 year cost of the stimulus bill $2.527 trillion in in spending with another $744 billion cost in debt servicing. Total bill for the Generational Theft Act: $3.27 trillion.
 
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