3rd party--no--New Conservative party yes.

theMAJORITY

MAJORITYrules-sorry
I agree--a third party could split a vote block, and we might elect another marxist unless the economy improves for citizens (and it won't).

But none of the so called Conservative media (radio and TV) could see any other way than to "revitalize the Republican with Conservative candidates".

Since the Dem party, and the Rep party is infiltrated with progressives, I don't think revilitizing the Rep party to Conservative values, will be any easier than revitalizing the Dem party to do the same.

I want to see either one of the parties disolve, or merge, so a real Conservative party can rise up and give us a clear choice like we have never seen in our lives.

That concept seems to to be hard to grasp for the Conservative mouth pieces.
 
I agree--a third party could split a vote block, and we might elect another marxist unless the economy improves for citizens (and it won't).

But none of the so called Conservative media (radio and TV) could see any other way than to "revitalize the Republican with Conservative candidates".

Since the Dem party, and the Rep party is infiltrated with progressives, I don't think revilitizing the Rep party to Conservative values, will be any easier than revitalizing the Dem party to do the same.

I want to see either one of the parties disolve, or merge, so a real Conservative party can rise up and give us a clear choice like we have never seen in our lives.

That concept seems to to be hard to grasp for the Conservative mouth pieces.
It really does depend on which tactic one believes is most doable. Is forming a new party aligned along the principles of modern conservatism more likely to result in a split voting block and 6 or more years of ever-more extreme leftism, or will it rally the conservative faction, rid itself of the republican neocons, and reduce the republicans to an ever-dwindling also-ran third party?

Likewise, but from the other direction, will attempting to retake control of the republican party result in a strong return to the principles of modern conservatism backed by a strong party, or will it result in a fractured party which cannot get a cohesive platform, rife with internal bickering, and result in 6 or more years of ever-more extreme leftism?

Frankly, for the short run, both the "retake the Republican Party" approach and the "form a real Conservative Party (from scratch)" have the stronger possibility of backfiring than working.

IMO we need a comprehensive, non-reactionary, long term PLAN. First, we need to take full advantage of the democrats stepping on their collective dicks, and get the far left out of power as fast as possible - even if it means replacing them with a bunch of empty-shell Rinos. Meanwhile, we also work on producing a solidified conservative movement front to take over from the Rinos when they step on their collective dicks.

The thing is, the people are getting tired of tossing one for the other, only to end up disappointed and angry at the other within a voting cycle. But as of now, the majority only see two possible choices: dems or pubs. Rats or Cans. (no wonder many don't vote!) IMO a concerted conservative front cannot be brought together in time for 2012, let alone 2010, despite the Tea Party movement. Too much history to overcome is so short a time -especially when MSM is 100% against them - even Fox. But let the people toss the dems in '10/'12, as is highly likely to happen now (IF we don't get in too big a hurry and end up splitting the vote like happened with Ross Perot.), Then they'll get a new dose of the modern republican party for the next four years (which is marginally better than what the left is offering - more short term damage than long term) and THEN the general populace will be ready to accept - in fact will be searching for a NEW alternative: the moderates who are, in fact, can more closely associate with classical liberalism that either the modern liberalism of the democratic party (socialist progressivism if the truth were told) or the neo-conservatism of the republican party.

In short, get the dems out now under a united (choke back the vomit and pull the lever anyway) front, and THEN, use the additional time to formulate the needed, REAL, American Conservative movement either through the Republican Party, or through development of a new party, or, maybe, both.
 
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Wilson wasn't really that bad until he became a fascist dictator during WWI.

That's certainly the low point of his presidency. He actually killed the progressive movement during that period. People can bitch about Lincoln and FDR wielding kingly powers, but no president has ever wielded as much power as did Wilson during WWI.
 
During the war Wilson had a band of hundreds of thousands of armed vigilantes who had blanket authority to investigate and intimidate anyone for "dissent" without a warrant. He stopped talking to the media and communicated to the people directly only through his propaganda department. This went on even after the war.

Shit like this already happened in America.
 
During the war Wilson had a band of hundreds of thousands of armed vigilantes who had blanket authority to investigate and intimidate anyone for "dissent" without a warrant. He stopped talking to the media and communicated to the people directly only through his propaganda department. This went on even after the war.

Shit like this already happened in America.

Yup, and the 4-minute-men came out to movie theaters accross the country and spouted administration talking-points while reels were being changed (which took 4 minutes). Usually lies.
 
Majority should have at least tried to get in a college. Progressives in the republican party. Lol thanks
 
I want a classical liberal party, one that believes the government should stay out of peoples personal and financial life. The right in this country, the majority at least, wants a party that thinks saving souls is a proper role for the government. That is every bit as loathsome as a party that thinks the proper role of government is to redistribute wealth and punish successful small businesses. A party that took a pragmatic track, one that is moderate would win the majority of votes. Independents are the majority in this country, they vote their pocket book first, which is why both Reagan and Clinton won. It was, is and always will be "the economy stupid". That is why pro-choice and pro-life candidates win, because truthfully, no one gives a real shit about that issue, or gay marriage, especially when their pocketbooks are at risk. If, somehow, Paul could win his party's nomination I would vote for him even though I disagree with him on abortion and gay marriage. We are on the brink of damaging our economic system beyond complete repair. This new medical system that HCR has wrought is very possibly going to crush us. There were better choices that neither party wanted to embrace for fear that the OTHER party would get more credit. Both parties are about political one ups manship. the american people be damned.
 
I want a classical liberal party, one that believes the government should stay out of peoples personal and financial life. The right in this country, the majority at least, wants a party that thinks saving souls is a proper role for the government. That is every bit as loathsome as a party that thinks the proper role of government is to redistribute wealth and punish successful small businesses. A party that took a pragmatic track, one that is moderate would win the majority of votes. Independents are the majority in this country, they vote their pocket book first, which is why both Reagan and Clinton won. It was, is and always will be "the economy stupid". That is why pro-choice and pro-life candidates win, because truthfully, no one gives a real shit about that issue, or gay marriage, especially when their pocketbooks are at risk. If, somehow, Paul could win his party's nomination I would vote for him even though I disagree with him on abortion and gay marriage. We are on the brink of damaging our economic system beyond complete repair. This new medical system that HCR has wrought is very possibly going to crush us. There were better choices that neither party wanted to embrace for fear that the OTHER party would get more credit. Both parties are about political one ups manship. the american people be damned.

There's a difference between those on the left who think we should achieve a more equal society by punishing the rich and those who think we should achieve equality by providing an equality of opportunity. The Democrats don't truthfully even support the second one, and America is no where close to it, so I don't have any idea what you're whining about.
 
I agree--a third party could split a vote block, and we might elect another marxist unless the economy improves for citizens (and it won't).

But none of the so called Conservative media (radio and TV) could see any other way than to "revitalize the Republican with Conservative candidates".

Since the Dem party, and the Rep party is infiltrated with progressives, I don't think revilitizing the Rep party to Conservative values, will be any easier than revitalizing the Dem party to do the same.

I want to see either one of the parties disolve, or merge, so a real Conservative party can rise up and give us a clear choice like we have never seen in our lives.

That concept seems to to be hard to grasp for the Conservative mouth pieces.

And exactly what is a "real" conservative? We've had Nixon, Ford, Reagan and the Bush family....with the PNAC agenda expressing the philosophy of the major players in all the aforementioned administration, and the teabaggers currently pushing for God-knows-what? So how is the true advocate for the conservative cause?

For years my question has been; what are the conservatives "conserving" anyway? Because so far it hasn't been your money, my job, or Smokey the Bear's backyard!
 
And exactly what is a "real" conservative? We've had Nixon, Ford, Reagan and the Bush family....with the PNAC agenda expressing the philosophy of the major players in all the aforementioned administration, and the teabaggers currently pushing for God-knows-what? So how is the true advocate for the conservative cause?

For years my question has been; what are the conservatives "conserving" anyway? Because so far it hasn't been your money, my job, or Smokey the Bear's backyard!

A more accurate term would be Regressives. What they don't get somehow is their 'conservative' ideology has failed and is to blame for our current situation.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
And exactly what is a "real" conservative? We've had Nixon, Ford, Reagan and the Bush family....with the PNAC agenda expressing the philosophy of the major players in all the aforementioned administration, and the teabaggers currently pushing for God-knows-what? So how is the true advocate for the conservative cause?

For years my question has been; what are the conservatives "conserving" anyway? Because so far it hasn't been your money, my job, or Smokey the Bear's backyard!

A more accurate term would be Regressives. What they don't get somehow is their 'conservative' ideology has failed and is to blame for our current situation.


True enough...but let's not forget that the Dem party in the last 30 years have been no picnic either.

Personally, I'd like to see something akin to a cross between Howard Dean and Ralph Nader politics. But that is TOO progressive for anyone in the current political system.
 
Yep, most Dems are bought and sold too. If the Dems had any guts we wouldn't have Nafta/Gatt and an oil slick headed to N.O.
 
Originally Posted by Crashk
Yep, most Dems are bought and sold too. If the Dems had any guts we wouldn't have Nafta/Gatt and an oil slick headed to N.O.

Right, we wouldn't be using oil anymore...

Not really, it could have been better regulated and used in conjunction with wind, solar, natural gas, geo-thermal, better home construction, etc.

But I fear we will never know
 
I want a classical liberal party, one that believes the government should stay out of peoples personal and financial life. The right in this country, the majority at least, wants a party that thinks saving souls is a proper role for the government. That is every bit as loathsome as a party that thinks the proper role of government is to redistribute wealth and punish successful small businesses. A party that took a pragmatic track, one that is moderate would win the majority of votes. Independents are the majority in this country, they vote their pocket book first, which is why both Reagan and Clinton won. It was, is and always will be "the economy stupid". That is why pro-choice and pro-life candidates win, because truthfully, no one gives a real shit about that issue, or gay marriage, especially when their pocketbooks are at risk. If, somehow, Paul could win his party's nomination I would vote for him even though I disagree with him on abortion and gay marriage. We are on the brink of damaging our economic system beyond complete repair. This new medical system that HCR has wrought is very possibly going to crush us. There were better choices that neither party wanted to embrace for fear that the OTHER party would get more credit. Both parties are about political one ups manship. the american people be damned.
I don't know where you get the idea that "the majority" of modern conservatives want a government that "saves souls". It's a bullshit lie propagated by the liberals as one of their innumerable means to demonize conservatives. There is a vocal fringe that want religion in the government - they are by far the small minority. MOST conservatives (ie: the majority) who have anything to say about religion in politics simply want the right - as is specifically guaranteed in the Constitution - to practice their religion without being told that this, that, or the other venue is no longer politically correct, even though it's been going on for over 200 years with ZERO movement toward a state religion as is used by the far left to justify their fear mongering against religion.
 
I don't know where you get the idea that "the majority" of modern conservatives want a government that "saves souls". It's a bullshit lie propagated by the liberals as one of their innumerable means to demonize conservatives. There is a vocal fringe that want religion in the government - they are by far the small minority. MOST conservatives (ie: the majority) who have anything to say about religion in politics simply want the right - as is specifically guaranteed in the Constitution - to practice their religion without being told that this, that, or the other venue is no longer politically correct, even though it's been going on for over 200 years with ZERO movement toward a state religion as is used by the far left to justify their fear mongering against religion.

I guess the biggest infiltration of religion in conservatism is the proliferation of the globalization theory, which is in essence a intellectualized, secularized frame for the talmudic concept of Olam Ha Ba.
 
I don't know where you get the idea that "the majority" of modern conservatives want a government that "saves souls". It's a bullshit lie propagated by the liberals as one of their innumerable means to demonize conservatives. There is a vocal fringe that want religion in the government - they are by far the small minority. MOST conservatives (ie: the majority) who have anything to say about religion in politics simply want the right - as is specifically guaranteed in the Constitution - to practice their religion without being told that this, that, or the other venue is no longer politically correct, even though it's been going on for over 200 years with ZERO movement toward a state religion as is used by the far left to justify their fear mongering against religion.

It is ridiculous to think we want to save souls. JHC, the crap that comes out of liberals mouths is nauseating.
 
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