A Question for Pinheads.....

D

Dixie - In Memoriam

New member
I realize that Pinhead Logic is much different than normal people logic, so I have decided to bring my question to the board, in hopes that some willing pinhead will help shed some light. I understand that things which seem totally logical to normal people, are totally illogical to pinheads, but this doesn't mean the illogical becomes logical... or does it? I am confused... do pinheads base their logic on what normal people view as illogical? Anyway, this question has been on my mind, and I'm just getting around to posting it... I hope some of you more profoundly pinheaded ones can provide answers.

Why is it, you are totally convinced the national presidential elections, with all the safeguards, with all the poll workers making sure the rules are followed, with probate judges checking calibration of machines and verifying vote tallies, can somehow be manipulated or tainted.... yet, the ABC, Gallup, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, Rasmussen, Zogby polls are certifiably 100% accurate always?

Ask any pinhead, they might claim they don't believe the election was rigged, but if you get them to talk about it a bit, you will see that they really do believe this is possible, if not probable. Yet, the ones who believe this the most, are the same ones who will point to the latest public opinion poll, as evidence that their pinheads are winning support. I don't get it... are public opinion polls impervious to cheating? Can a Gallup or CNN poll not be manipulated or altered? What secret do the pollsters hold, that the election officials don't seem to know about? I'm sure there is a perfectly logical pinhead explanation for this.
 
Jeesh, us... your number 3 key seems to be stuck this morning. Too bad you are unable to post words, I was hoping you could help answer my question. I guess that's what happens to your keys when you spend all your time at those porn sites, huh? You might try spraying some WD-40 on the keys, maybe you can get them un-stuck?
 
another assinine post from the preeminent gadfly...

you gonna pay up when the democrats gain seats in both chambers of congress, or not?
 
Polling candidates or issues DOES NOT HAVE TO BE PRECISE, they can have a margin of error.....

The Sanctity of our votes, is all a democratic republic can hang its hat on....one man, one vote....

There is no way to make sure the electronic voting machines are giving us an accurate vote without it having a paper trail to audit and receipts for voters to verify whom they voted for was registered correctly in the tally...
 
Hey! I don't mind being called a Pinhead.... hahaha!

I look at it as an endearing compliment from Dixie! :)

care
 
Yepper Care. Considering the source it is an honor to be called a pinhead by Dixie. Having dixie agree with me is a horrible thought, and would cause much soul searching ;)
 
Care4all said:
Polling candidates or issues DOES NOT HAVE TO BE PRECISE, they can have a margin of error.....

The Sanctity of our votes, is all a democratic republic can hang its hat on....one man, one vote....

There is no way to make sure the electronic voting machines are giving us an accurate vote without it having a paper trail to audit and receipts for voters to verify whom they voted for was registered correctly in the tally...
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Doesn't the same logic apply to popular polling? It seems we have no verification at all, pollsters don't require an ID or registration, or anything really, so there is no way to confirm the results. I realize that polls have a margin of error and don't have to be precise, but it seems that some people put a lot of stock into what the polls are saying, and it seems it's the same ones who are convinced our elections are tainted. I'm trying to understand, if it's so easy to manipulate a legitimate national election, isn't it just as easy, if not easier, to manipulate a popular opinion poll? Why do some people hold the polls in such high regard, while insisting the elections are inaccurate?
 
Dixie said:
Doesn't the same logic apply to popular polling? It seems we have no verification at all, pollsters don't require an ID or registration, or anything really, so there is no way to confirm the results. I realize that polls have a margin of error and don't have to be precise, but it seems that some people put a lot of stock into what the polls are saying, and it seems it's the same ones who are convinced our elections are tainted. I'm trying to understand, if it's so easy to manipulate a legitimate national election, isn't it just as easy, if not easier, to manipulate a popular opinion poll? Why do some people hold the polls in such high regard, while insisting the elections are inaccurate?
Click to expand...

Polls are fairly accurate because they have created and analyzed the system and procedures they use to calculate their polls via Actuaries...Actuaries are capable, mathematicians and hve polling down to a science....

and they check eachother...by having various different polling agencies asking the same questions....it is a science, not a guessing game on their part.....they don't conduct the polling willy nilly Dixie.

And as I have stated before, polling does not have to be PRECISE as voting should be, and their 3% margin of error reflects that....Polling is to get a "feel" for what the nation's people think....it is NOT a VOTE on legislation or a candidate....it is a POLL, that wages the public's views....

They don't poll just registered voters all the time...except in Exit polling, which is even MORE ACCURATE than polling the "general" public because they are polling who actually are voting.
 
You don't have to have a tear away receipt (although I don't see what difference it makes whether you give one or not) but a verifiable (by the voter) printout needs to be kept with the machine and a random sample of precincts need to have their data checked against the printouts to maintain integrity of the system.

Immie
 
Care4all said:
Polls are fairly accurate because they have created and analyzed the system and procedures they use to calculate their polls via Actuaries...Actuaries are capable, mathematicians and hve polling down to a science....

and they check eachother...by having various different polling agencies asking the same questions....it is a science, not a guessing game on their part.....they don't conduct the polling willy nilly Dixie.

And as I have stated before, polling does not have to be PRECISE as voting should be, and their 3% margin of error reflects that....Polling is to get a "feel" for what the nation's people think....it is NOT a VOTE on legislation or a candidate....it is a POLL, that wages the public's views....

They don't poll just registered voters all the time...except in Exit polling, which is even MORE ACCURATE than polling the "general" public because they are polling who actually are voting.
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Given the fact that some pollsters working for the right have recently been charged with fraud and convicted, perhaps there is some reason to begin more seriously analysing the pollsters and their results. For instance even though Rasmussen claims to only poll "likely voters" they are consistently 5-7 points higher on Bush approval than any other poll. Why is that? They are supposedly a right wing pollster, does that mean that they are less likely to be accurate or that they inflate Bush's numbers? I don't know. For me the premise of the question is wrong, I don't accept polls without thought anymore than I believe that Bush won in 2000 or 2004. I think he stole both elections, and the hapless Democrats aided and abetted him every step of the way....
 
Care4all said:
Polls are fairly accurate because they have created and analyzed the system and procedures they use to calculate their polls via Actuaries...Actuaries are capable, mathematicians and hve polling down to a science....

and they check eachother...by having various different polling agencies asking the same questions....it is a science, not a guessing game on their part.....they don't conduct the polling willy nilly Dixie.

And as I have stated before, polling does not have to be PRECISE as voting should be, and their 3% margin of error reflects that....Polling is to get a "feel" for what the nation's people think....it is NOT a VOTE on legislation or a candidate....it is a POLL, that wages the public's views....

They don't poll just registered voters all the time...except in Exit polling, which is even MORE ACCURATE than polling the "general" public because they are polling who actually are voting.
Click to expand...


Yeah, but you are avoiding my question. Why are polls viewed as absolute, while elections are suspect? How come polls can't be manipulated and rigged just like you think the elections are? It just seems to me, the logic applies both ways, especially since we know for a fact, popular polls do not require any sort of ID or verification, nor do they require certification or judicial oversight, like elections. On the surface, it appears it would be easier to manipulate a popular poll than a national election, given the safeguards in place for voting and lack of confirmation with polls.
 
Who has said that polls are abolute. I say polls are shit they give a ball park but can't tell you anything real specific.
 
Immanuel said:
You don't have to have a tear away receipt (although I don't see what difference it makes whether you give one or not) but a verifiable (by the voter) printout needs to be kept with the machine and a random sample of precincts need to have their data checked against the printouts to maintain integrity of the system.

Immie
Click to expand...

Do they do this with the CNN polls? Is there any way to go back and confirm who voted for what, and who may have voted twice, etc.? What is the safeguard in place, to maintain integrity of this system? I would say, if we can legitimately accept the results of the polls as accurate, perhaps our election officials could take some tips from the pollsters or something? Maybe we just need to do away with our election system altogether, and adopt a poll-based system... CNN can just tell us who the next president is, based on their polling data. This seems to be a more widely accepted result of accurate representation, and it would eliminate any question of fraud, since there doesn't seem to be any concern with fraud in the polls now.
 
Immanuel said:
You don't have to have a tear away receipt (although I don't see what difference it makes whether you give one or not) but a verifiable (by the voter) printout needs to be kept with the machine and a random sample of precincts need to have their data checked against the printouts to maintain integrity of the system.

Immie
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Receipts can be used to verify a vote sold to a bidder. Voters do not get a receipt that shows how they voted.
 
I have noticed that it depends on which way the poll is going VS your candidate as to whether they are garbage/accurate or not. And "you" pretty much means all of us ;)
 
Dixie said:
Do they do this with the CNN polls? Is there any way to go back and confirm who voted for what, and who may have voted twice, etc.? What is the safeguard in place, to maintain integrity of this system? I would say, if we can legitimately accept the results of the polls as accurate, perhaps our election officials could take some tips from the pollsters or something? Maybe we just need to do away with our election system altogether, and adopt a poll-based system... CNN can just tell us who the next president is, based on their polling data. This seems to be a more widely accepted result of accurate representation, and it would eliminate any question of fraud, since there doesn't seem to be any concern with fraud in the polls now.
Click to expand...

I don't follow polls. I don't care about polls. I have never said the polls are accurate. Polls are not accurate as they can easily be manipulated with questions, selection demographics and/or "interpretation" of the data.

I am not worried about the polls.

I do want to be certain that our election system maintains its integrity. To answer your question, at the moment there is no safeguard in place to maintain the integrity of our voting system.

Edit:

To be more specific no safeguard to maintain the integrity of the electronic voting system.

Immie
 
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