Additional Unanticipated Benefit of Palin

D

Dixie - In Memoriam

New member
An interesting thing happened on the way to the Election, people began to notice John McCain. I know this sounds a little funny, but I mean, McCain Politics. I think the selection of Sara Palin, has caused many conservatives who were somewhat lukewarm on McCain, to stop and take another objective look.

I can speak for myself, this is clearly the case. Many of his political positions are an amalgamation of both 'sides' of an issue, a 'moderation' of views. He is considered a conservative, but when things stray from the basic fundamentals of conservatism, he is not beyond defiance to his own party, and the partisans in his party. His core beliefs are indeed, not liberal. While he is more conservative, he is also able to somehow reason with the liberals on the other side, something the rest of us conservatives are completely confounded with. It almost seems like McCain has some 'special ability' to communicate with them on a level they can understand, and go along with something not in the Communist Manifesto or writings of Karl Marx.

I was steamed at McCain over CFR, it has been my biggest disagreement with him. In my 'second-look' at McCain, I realize that what he did, was not to encroach on the 1st Amendment, as I had originally concluded, no one is restricted in political speech at all. What it did was, make it all transparent. Now, instead of having some anonymous rumor leak out, and the campaigns responding, the money has to be spent by the sources of the 'rumors' and we can see where it's coming from. Campaigns can remain 'above the fray' and let the various 527 groups do the 'dirty work' instead of sending their money to the candidate, and remaining behind the curtains.

I had a huge problem with McCain when he formed The Gang, and resolved the 'Bush Judges' controversy. But in my 'second look' I see, Bush had all the rest of his judges approved. The results were, McCain got everything Bush wanted in the end. Yes, I still disagree with McCain in principle, but I can understand the results and the benefit of his ability to resolve the issue.

One of the biggest of issues for conservatives with McCain, has been his position on illegal immigration. They want to claim he favors 'amnesty' but that is a vague term for what he proposed. To effectively solve the problem we face, Americans are going to have to come to the realization we simply can't deport them all now. It's not just impractical, it's impossible, utopian, not going to happen! That said, we need to have some comprehensive plan, which includes some means of legitimizing these individuals who are already here. All McCain has said is, come off your partisan viewpoints, and be realistic in helping us solve the problem.

So, in summary, I have enjoyed the chance to reacquaint myself with John McCain, to re-examine his record and ability to 'moderate' both sides, or actually attempt a 'new approach' to effectively solve problems. Palin was an ideal selection for many reasons, but I think this one might be the most crucial to this election, and I don't think anyone else has even considered it.
 
"I don't think anyone else has even considered it"

Very few aspire to the kind of lunacy which you are defined by.

It was a given that you were going to drown in koolaid for whoever the GOP nominee was this election (or any election). The selection of McCain ruined you at 1st, because there was no conceivable way to do that, given your incredibly outspoken diatribes against the man, which really went on for years. Now, in the course of a few weeks, you've taken a "2nd look," and hey! He's a great candidate, after all.

This public display of your own psychotic internal rationalizing on this is actually a little discomforting.
 
He is not beyond defiance to his own party?

Are you suggesting that he owes allegience to the party and not to what he thinks is right or what is best for the american people??
 
Solitary said:
He is not beyond defiance to his own party?

Are you suggesting that he owes allegience to the party and not to what he thinks is right or what is best for the american people??
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I think most politicians of today are beholden to their party, Obama and Biden certainly are, they aren't about to do or say anything that isn't part and parcel of the Democrat agenda. There is no indication they have ever been defiant of their party. McCain has a track record of it, and made a name for himself because of it.... so did Palin. Of the four people seeking office, the Republican candidates are the most likely to 'moderate' or 'compromise' their party principles for the sake of America's best interest.

How you warped my opinion into something totally contradictory, is beyond me. Apparently, you have lost your reading comprehension skills.
 
Dixie said:
An interesting thing happened on the way to the Election, people began to notice John McCain. I know this sounds a little funny, but I mean, McCain Politics. I think the selection of Sara Palin, has caused many conservatives who were somewhat lukewarm on McCain, to stop and take another objective look.

I can speak for myself, this is clearly the case. Many of his political positions are an amalgamation of both 'sides' of an issue, a 'moderation' of views. He is considered a conservative, but when things stray from the basic fundamentals of conservatism, he is not beyond defiance to his own party, and the partisans in his party. His core beliefs are indeed, not liberal. While he is more conservative, he is also able to somehow reason with the liberals on the other side, something the rest of us conservatives are completely confounded with. It almost seems like McCain has some 'special ability' to communicate with them on a level they can understand, and go along with something not in the Communist Manifesto or writings of Karl Marx.

I was steamed at McCain over CFR, it has been my biggest disagreement with him. In my 'second-look' at McCain, I realize that what he did, was not to encroach on the 1st Amendment, as I had originally concluded, no one is restricted in political speech at all. What it did was, make it all transparent. Now, instead of having some anonymous rumor leak out, and the campaigns responding, the money has to be spent by the sources of the 'rumors' and we can see where it's coming from. Campaigns can remain 'above the fray' and let the various 527 groups do the 'dirty work' instead of sending their money to the candidate, and remaining behind the curtains.

I had a huge problem with McCain when he formed The Gang, and resolved the 'Bush Judges' controversy. But in my 'second look' I see, Bush had all the rest of his judges approved. The results were, McCain got everything Bush wanted in the end. Yes, I still disagree with McCain in principle, but I can understand the results and the benefit of his ability to resolve the issue.

One of the biggest of issues for conservatives with McCain, has been his position on illegal immigration. They want to claim he favors 'amnesty' but that is a vague term for what he proposed. To effectively solve the problem we face, Americans are going to have to come to the realization we simply can't deport them all now. It's not just impractical, it's impossible, utopian, not going to happen! That said, we need to have some comprehensive plan, which includes some means of legitimizing these individuals who are already here. All McCain has said is, come off your partisan viewpoints, and be realistic in helping us solve the problem.

So, in summary, I have enjoyed the chance to reacquaint myself with John McCain, to re-examine his record and ability to 'moderate' both sides, or actually attempt a 'new approach' to effectively solve problems. Palin was an ideal selection for many reasons, but I think this one might be the most crucial to this election, and I don't think anyone else has even considered it.
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Dixie I wish you would quite claiming to be a conservative. You are in no way, shape or form a conservative. You are a reactionary, just as Ralph Nader is a radical, not a liberal and Tom Jefferson was a revolutionary, not a liberal, Just as Bill Clinton and Dwight Eisenhower were moderates, not liberals or conservatives. You and the far right wing of the Republican party are by definition reactionaries and you are not conservatives. John McCain is the closest to a true conservative to be nominated for President since Gerald Ford.
 
Onceler said:
"I don't think anyone else has even considered it"

Very few aspire to the kind of lunacy which you are defined by.

It was a given that you were going to drown in koolaid for whoever the GOP nominee was this election (or any election). The selection of McCain ruined you at 1st, because there was no conceivable way to do that, given your incredibly outspoken diatribes against the man, which really went on for years. Now, in the course of a few weeks, you've taken a "2nd look," and hey! He's a great candidate, after all.

This public display of your own psychotic internal rationalizing on this is actually a little discomforting.
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Naaaa, he's just being Dixie :-)
 
For Dixie, as it is for so many blind partisans, McCain could be the reincarnation of Joseph Stalin and he would still have all the qualities Dixie admires. It is a bizarre spinning of reality that never fails to amaze. Ideologies are obviously flexible when you are a partisan. McCain was near the bottom of his class, he ditched his wife and married money, he has flip flopped on every issue to gain favor with the right, and is now running a smear campaign rather than an issues campaign. Sad man John McCain.


A vote for McCain/Palin is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.
 
midcan5 said:
For Dixie, as it is for so many blind partisans, McCain could be the reincarnation of Joseph Stalin and he would still have all the qualities Dixie admires. It is a bizarre spinning of reality that never fails to amaze. Ideologies are obviously flexible when you are a partisan. McCain was near the bottom of his class, he ditched his wife and married money, he has flip flopped on every issue to gain favor with the right, and is now running a smear campaign rather than an issues campaign. Sad man John McCain.


A vote for McCain/Palin is a vote against the fundamental principle of America, the right of the individual to lead their life privately without the government interfering.
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I think you're being a bit harsh on McCain. He may have graduated at the bottom of his class but he still graduated from one of the toughest engineering programs in the country. I'd go so far as to say that earning an engineering degree at Annapolis is a lot harder than an MBA from Harvard. As for his first wife, I don't know the details of that and it's a personal matter. As for changing his views, what politician doesn't?

John McCain is a man of character and will need to run a tough campaign if he expects to win. That's hardly sad. That's just the way it is. Obama will have to get tough and fight back. That's just the nature of the beast.
 
It was a given that you were going to drown in koolaid for whoever the GOP nominee was this election (or any election). The selection of McCain ruined you at 1st, because there was no conceivable way to do that, given your incredibly outspoken diatribes against the man, which really went on for years. Now, in the course of a few weeks, you've taken a "2nd look," and hey! He's a great candidate, after all.
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Oncie, you can think whatever you wish, I can't control that. All I can say is, before he picked Palin, I was not going to vote for McCain. I have no reason to lie about that, I could just as easily claim I am still undecided. I still disagree with McCain on things, so he is not "a great candidate after all" ...I would vote for Palin over McCain. However, the combo of McCain/Palin is much better for America than Obama/Biden, and it's a ticket I can support now. Believe that or not, I don't care, I am just sharing information.

I think one thing Palin does, is to cause conservatives like myself, to take another look at McCain politics, and realize the stark difference between a McCain administration and a potential Obama administration. I think Palin gives us a reason to accept McCain, to recognize the "good" in McCain, which we may not have clearly seen before. I've been very critical of McCain in the past, and I don't 'march in lockstep' with McCain policy, but I now realize a point of view I didn't see before, regarding McCain. I am curious as to whether this is the case with others, who will now vote for McCain. Did Palin make you take another look at McCain? Did the VP pick cause you to see McCain a different way? Can you now justify voting for McCain over Obama, where before, you were undecided? Hey...I already understand pinheads aren't going to vote for McCain/Palin.... that's pretty much a given, and I would have to be an absolute idiot to think any of you were going to suddenly see the light, this thread was not posted to get your opinions.
 
"I already understand pinheads aren't going to vote for McCain/Palin"

Well, it depends on how you define "pinhead."

I would describe a pinhead as anyone who accepts blindly that a candidate is a "reformer" just because she says she is, when her record is one of appointing cronies instead of qualifed people, milking the Alaskan gov't for $17K worth of per diems and firing people for personal or ideological reasons.
 
You don't know what a Pinhead is. Pinheads are unable to comprehend such complex things. It's like asking a Chimpanzee, what a Chimpanzee is... they have no clue.

As for cronies, milking the government, and per diems, I know Biden's record is stellar, as is Obama's, so I won't argue with you on that point of brilliance. And I realize her firing state troopers who were 'family' members, is different than firing them because they revealed details of infidelity, like Clinton did. You got me there!
 
Dixie said:
An interesting thing happened on the way to the Election, people began to notice John McCain. I know this sounds a little funny, but I mean, McCain Politics. I think the selection of Sara Palin, has caused many conservatives who were somewhat lukewarm on McCain, to stop and take another objective look.

I can speak for myself, this is clearly the case. Many of his political positions are an amalgamation of both 'sides' of an issue, a 'moderation' of views. He is considered a conservative, but when things stray from the basic fundamentals of conservatism, he is not beyond defiance to his own party, and the partisans in his party. His core beliefs are indeed, not liberal. While he is more conservative, he is also able to somehow reason with the liberals on the other side, something the rest of us conservatives are completely confounded with. It almost seems like McCain has some 'special ability' to communicate with them on a level they can understand, and go along with something not in the Communist Manifesto or writings of Karl Marx.

I was steamed at McCain over CFR, it has been my biggest disagreement with him. In my 'second-look' at McCain, I realize that what he did, was not to encroach on the 1st Amendment, as I had originally concluded, no one is restricted in political speech at all. What it did was, make it all transparent. Now, instead of having some anonymous rumor leak out, and the campaigns responding, the money has to be spent by the sources of the 'rumors' and we can see where it's coming from. Campaigns can remain 'above the fray' and let the various 527 groups do the 'dirty work' instead of sending their money to the candidate, and remaining behind the curtains.

I had a huge problem with McCain when he formed The Gang, and resolved the 'Bush Judges' controversy. But in my 'second look' I see, Bush had all the rest of his judges approved. The results were, McCain got everything Bush wanted in the end. Yes, I still disagree with McCain in principle, but I can understand the results and the benefit of his ability to resolve the issue.

One of the biggest of issues for conservatives with McCain, has been his position on illegal immigration. They want to claim he favors 'amnesty' but that is a vague term for what he proposed. To effectively solve the problem we face, Americans are going to have to come to the realization we simply can't deport them all now. It's not just impractical, it's impossible, utopian, not going to happen! That said, we need to have some comprehensive plan, which includes some means of legitimizing these individuals who are already here. All McCain has said is, come off your partisan viewpoints, and be realistic in helping us solve the problem.

So, in summary, I have enjoyed the chance to reacquaint myself with John McCain, to re-examine his record and ability to 'moderate' both sides, or actually attempt a 'new approach' to effectively solve problems. Palin was an ideal selection for many reasons, but I think this one might be the most crucial to this election, and I don't think anyone else has even considered it.
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Legitimizing individuals already here, is ineed amnesty, you dumb cunt.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Legitimizing individuals already here, is ineed amnesty, you dumb cunt.
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Well, maybe it is, if that is what it is, then that is what we'll have to do eventually, because we can not deport them all. I mean, we can sit around whining and moaning about the definition of "amnesty" for the next decade, but will that solve the problem? We can sit around and fantasize about sending them all back home, will that solve the problem? We can invest in a giant wall across our entire southern border, which would cost a fortune, would that solve the problem of the 15 million illegals already here?

You know, I understand we have a problem here, and we need to find a solution before we lose our sovereignty completely. What is your solution? To sit around bitching about "amnesty" and simply allowing the problem to persist? It seems that is precisely what we've been doing, and they are still coming, so it's not an effective solution.

I happen to think there is a way to legitimize illegal aliens without giving them complete and absolute amnesty. But if you want to call any legitimization "amnesty" then so be it, we'll have to give them "amnesty" to resolve the problem. There is no other solution, we can't simply deport them all.
 
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