An example... from an e-mail...

Damocles

Damocles

Accedo!
Staff member
If only every American could see it in these simple terms, maybe we could get out of this mess....

• U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000

• Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000

• New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000

• National debt: $14,271,000,000,000

• Recent budget cut: $ 38,500,000,000

OK...Now, let's remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a typical Americans household budget:

• Annual family income: $21,700

• Money the family spent: $38,200

• New debt on the credit card: $16,500

• Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710

• Total budget cuts: $385
 
The government runs at the macroeconomic level, a family runs at a microeconomic one. These are different universes. The no. 1 customer of society is itself. Does a family work that way?
 
Watermark Tzu said:
The government runs at the macroeconomic level, a family runs at a microeconomic one. These are different universes. The no. 1 customer of society is itself. Does a family work that way?
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Damo was right.....things aren't going to change as long as the majority of people are as dumb as Watermark......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
Damo was right.....things aren't going to change as long as the majority of people are as dumb as Watermark......
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The government is the arm of society. It's stupid to just think of it as an individual in society. Society works for itself, it buys stuff from itself. The best comparison would be to a self-sufficient individual loaning money to himself. If this individual is slacking off, pointlessly leaving his hands idle, and this fiction convinces him to continue working, how is it a bad thing? Let's also remember that this guy can just unilaterally decide not to himself back if he wants; it's entirely secured by his own trust in himself, not by the fact that a government will come and take everything he owns if he doesn't pay it back.

If the government finances are in such a bad shape, why is everyone running over themselves to buy more government bonds? Comparisons with an individual are meaningless, the province of simple thinkers with simple minds. Governments are not individuals. They are as different from individuals as any two things can be. Conservatives continually want to extrapolate the micro to the macro, and they only prove their idiocy by doing so.
 
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If the government truly cared about its finances, there would be massive spending increases, not budget cuts. All the cuts are going to do is leave hands idle, leading to eternal stagnation. Maybe we should move up the date at which China is going to replace the US as the no. 1 power? They're already practically out of their recession, thanks to their governments huge stimulus projects and investment in infrastructure, compared to our taxcutulus (as a % of GDP, their spending on stimulus was about 3 times what ours was, and half of it was not tax cuts). What will our GDP look like in 20 years? Maybe like Japan's:

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Watermark Tzu said:
Maybe we should move up the date at which China is going to replace the US as the no. 1 power? They're already practically out of their recession, thanks to their governments huge stimulus projects.
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China didn't borrow money to build huge stimulus projects.....in fact they had enough money left over to loan some to us.......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
China didn't borrow money to build huge stimulus projects.....in fact they had enough money left over to loan some to us.......
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Yes China did. They do not run 600 billion dollar surpluses every year which they can just set aside for stimulus when needed. There is no country in the world without debt.
 
Before tax cuts for the rich America had prosperity, jobs, and a surplus.

After tax cuts for the rich we have the reverse.

Simple enough for you?
 
\(\(())/)/ said:
Before tax cuts for the rich America had prosperity, jobs, and a surplus.

After tax cuts for the rich we have the reverse.

Simple enough for you?
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Did that surplus include the massive I.O.U. left in the Social Security coffer or not?
 
Damocles said:
If only every American could see it in these simple terms, maybe we could get out of this mess....

• U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000

• Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000

• New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000

• National debt: $14,271,000,000,000

• Recent budget cut: $ 38,500,000,000

OK...Now, let's remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a typical Americans household budget:

• Annual family income: $21,700

• Money the family spent: $38,200

• New debt on the credit card: $16,500

• Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710

• Total budget cuts: $385
Click to expand...

Damn! You hacked my household budget file! :chesh:
 
What effect would returning to pre-Bush tax rates have on the deficit that conservatives started to pretend they cared about on Jan. 21 2009?
 
\(\(())/)/ said:
What effect would returning to pre-Bush tax rates have on the deficit that conservatives started to pretend they cared about on Jan. 21 2009?
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What effect would \(\(())/)/ answering a question have on the JPP forums?
 
Under Clinton, prosperity, jobs and a surplus. Under Bush, tax cuts, borrowing and massive spending. Under Obama, tax cuts and more debt.

Spot the difference.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
China didn't borrow money to build huge stimulus projects.....in fact they had enough money left over to loan some to us.......
Click to expand...

Watermark Tzu said:
Yes China did. They do not run 600 billion dollar surpluses every year which they can just set aside for stimulus when needed. There is no country in the world without debt.
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PostmodernProphet said:
the answer was no, it didn't.....
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So your contention is China runs a surplus, and refrains from borrowing?

Is this what you're claiming?
 
\(\(())/)/ said:
Under Clinton, prosperity, jobs and a surplus. Under Bush, tax cuts, borrowing and massive spending. Under Obama, tax cuts and more debt.

Spot the difference.
Click to expand...
If we go back to Clinton era spending limits, I will gladly go back to Clinton era tax rates.
 
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