Congress's love affair with ethanol is cooling

Little-Acorn

New member
"Unintended Consequences" (ph.) - An intellectual-sounding phrase meant to deflect attention from the fact that Congress failed to do even the simplest study on the amount of ethanol needed to supply the demand they were artificially creating, and the amount of acreage that needed to be taken from other foodstuffs to produce it, before they put laws into place mandating vast increases in ethanol production.

Completely aside from the fact that it takes more than one gallon of gasoline or diesel to produce one gallon of ethanol; and that ethanol production and usage produces MORE air and water pollution that does gasoline.

BTW, the food riots the author mentions, have as much to do with expanding populations worldwide while food production hasn't risen commensurately, as it does the converting of food farms to ethanol-corn farms.

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http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080501/NATION/462824208/1001

Congress' ethanol affair is cooling

by Stephen Dinan
May 1, 2008

Members of Congress say they overreached by pushing ethanol on consumers and will move to roll back federal supports for it — the latest sure signal that Congress' appetite for corn-based ethanol has collapsed as food and gas prices have shot up.

House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer said Democrats will use the pending farm bill to reduce the subsidy, while Republicans are looking to go further, rolling back government rules passed just four months ago that require blending ethanol into gasoline.

"The view was to look to alternatives and try to become more dependent on the Midwest than the Middle East. I mean, that was the theory. Obviously, sometimes there are unforeseen or unintended consequences of actions," Mr. Hoyer, Maryland Democrat, told reporters yesterday.

Only a year ago, Congress and President Bush seemed to view ethanol as a near-magic solution to the nation's dependence on oil and counted on it to make a dent in greenhouse gas emissions. Republicans and Democrats together piled up the incentives and mandates that pushed farmers into planting corn for ethanol and consumers into buying gasoline blended with it.

But as farmers switched crops, they left a dearth in other foods — which, coupled with higher worldwide living standards and higher demand — has caused food shortages. Food riots have erupted in some nations, while even in the U.S., some stores have said they will ration sales of staples such as rice.

Now the most common phrase when lawmakers talk about ethanol is "unintended consequences."

"This is a classic case of the law of unintended consequences," said Rep. Jeff Flake, Arizona Republican, who introduced a bill this week to end the entire slate of federal supports, including the mandates for blended gasoline, the tax credits for ethanol producers, and tariffs that keep out cheaper foreign ethanol.

"Congress surely did not intend to raise food prices by incentivizing ethanol, but that's precisely what's happened. A jump in food prices is the last thing our economy needs right now," Mr. Flake said.
 
"04-21-2008, 04:52 PM
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swithgrass isn't close to ready for primetime. We produce 5 billion gallons with mainly cor. That will only go up."

04-21-2008, 05:36 PM
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what I'm saying is easily verified. Also many experts say iowa's cacus will hold off corn alternatives for ethanol production."

04-22-2008, 09:21 AM
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Damo, are you 12?
Studend and professors means zero sales. I'm talking 5 billion gallons of corn ethonal, wake me up when the statement changes from could to IS. LOFL"

"04-22-2008, 09:48 AM
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you are 12
Dude, check your self.
There's research on hydrogen vehicle's coming out the wazzu's and even cars on the road with them. Please forgive me if I don't piss my pants cause you caught a pbs on the issue. Here's a clue for you, I'm 48 and have accumulated a mil already mostly in oils stocks. Don't you think somebody like me has read a hundred articles like the one you quoted.
Greencarcongress
Hybrid cars.com
Greencarjournal
Are daily lookups for me, the thing you say was on these website long ago.
AGAIN, RIGHT NOW CORN IS THE ONLY SERIOUSLY PRODUCED ETHONAL DOMESTICALLY!!!"

"04-22-2008, 12:56 PM
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P.S. I'll assume the investors who put up real money for the 5 billions barrells of corn ethonal know a little more than a partisan hack like freak."

"04-22-2008, 06:46 PM
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Iowa rulls Son!!!
ain't happening anytime soon,
5 billion gallons sold in Us, and only 1 factory in canada burping a few gals of switch.
If anything subsidies will go up."
 
wow freak is stalking me.
One guy speaks out against it. LOFL
Wait and see Junior, the 5 billion number is a fact unlike the horseshit you toss around.
 
wow freak is stalking me.
One guy speaks out against it. LOFL
Wait and see Junior, the 5 billion number is a fact unlike the horseshit you toss around.

Seriously retard... do try to read the articles....

"House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer said Democrats will use the pending farm bill to reduce the subsidy, while Republicans are looking to go further, rolling back government rules passed just four months ago that require blending ethanol into gasoline."

Note moron... that is not just one person. If both PARTIES are talking about removing subsidies... somehow I doubt your prediction of subsidies going up is going to hold.
 
I'm all for killing ethonal from corn Himler. We're at 5 Billion barrells if you think one bill or press conference is going to stop it your on crack.
 
Dude earth to himler!!!!
I'm oilfield trash, I joke about being pro-ethonal cause my kids wrestle in college in Iowa. that's it. Ohh and the occasional profit from an ADM trade. Seriously though. I agree it's the right thing to do and the Democrats/Republicans in office will do their credibility wonders in my opinion if they kill it over time.
I listen to kudlow and Bloomberg nightly and they are railing for months about the power of the Iowa causas and what a boondoggle corn ethonal is.
 
Dude earth to himler!!!!
I'm oilfield trash, I joke about being pro-ethonal cause my kids wrestle in college in Iowa. that's it. Ohh and the occasional profit from an ADM trade. Seriously though. I agree it's the right thing to do and the Democrats/Republicans in office will do their credibility wonders in my opinion if they kill it over time.
I listen to kudlow and Bloomberg nightly and they are railing for months about the power of the Iowa causas and what a boondoggle corn ethonal is.

I accept your surrender.
 
You have it jackass, how much you want to bet next years eithanol subisides are still largely in place???
 
You have it jackass, how much you want to bet next years eithanol subisides are still largely in place???

Depends on two factors...

1) Are we talking strictly grain based subsidies?

2) By what time next year?

edit... also a third... define largely...
 
I hope I'm wrong, and you/they are right. Seems pretty obvious that the unintended consequences we're way underestimated.
 
I hope congress's withdrawl from supporting ethanol is limited to what they have been supporting as a biomass. It would be a good time to point out that while corn is not going to work, there are other (albeit somewhat more expensive) sources. The idea of cellulosic ethanol from our own trash would appeal to many.
 
Members of Congress say they overreached by pushing ethanol on consumers and will move to roll back federal supports for it — the latest sure signal that Congress' appetite for corn-based ethanol has collapsed

Good joke on the farmers who switched over to corn for all those nice ethanol subsidies, particularly if they bought new equipment necessary to grow and harvest corn instead of whatever they used to grow. Now they're stuck with it!

HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA HAA...... teach 'em to trust a liberal government that can't plan its way out of a paper bag.
 
I wonder is the price of oil high enough now that subsidizing ethanol production is not longer necessary ? Capitalists will see the opportunity for profit and jump in ?
that is the way it is supposed to work after all.
 
I wonder is the price of oil high enough now that subsidizing ethanol production is not longer necessary ? Capitalists will see the opportunity for profit and jump in ?
that is the way it is supposed to work after all.
From what I have heard about the costs of cellulosic ethanol production, gasoline will need to rise another buck or so to make free market willing to go to the expense of building production infrastructure. It may be less, since those figures are a couple years old. I imagine some progress has been made on production techniques since then.

Now if government were to continue to subsidize building production facilities - focusing on cellulosic methods - but stay the heck away from subsidizing the product and the agriculture, we could get cellulosic ethanol on its feet in a few years without worrying about long term subsidy commitments.

IMO, that is how government should always handle subsidizing new areas of the economy. Make the tax incentives and subsidy grants etc. focus on shifting infrastructure to the new, but stay away from subsidizing production.
 
That does seem to be the direction the govt is heading Luck. They are starting construction on a cellulosic ethanol plant in KY.
 
An outfit by the name of Bluefire Ethanol is building a cellulosic ethano plant in a CA landfill. They plan on using landfill cellulose for biomass. Additionally the design is supposed to use heat and methane generated by the landfill to help power the plant, significantly increasing efficiency. They have plans for a second plant soon after the first one comes online.

http://wolfsden.wordpress.com/2008/02/14/biofules-from-trash/

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=trash-based-biofuels

http://bluefireethanol.com/
 
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