Crying out for help but not finding it

R

Rune

Mjölner
http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html

[h=2]Friday, December 14, 2012[/h][h=3]Thinking the Unthinkable[/h]

Michael holding a butterfly
In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.


“I can wear these pants,” he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.


“They are navy blue,” I told him. “Your school’s dress code says black or khaki pants only.”


“They told me I could wear these,” he insisted. “You’re a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!”


“You can’t wear whatever pants you want to,” I said, my tone affable, reasonable. “And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You’re grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school.”


I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.


A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.


That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn’t have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

More at link
 
Apparently. The thread is dreadfully quiet. I still hate the day I had to go and get my Nephew's gun... It made me sad, but people weren't safe, including himself, with him owning it.
 
That's the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about.

We certainly have a problem in the US with these violent mass murders in public places where the victims are sitting ducks.

Gun control isn't a solution to the problem. The assault weapons ban proved that. There was hardly any demand at all by the public for these types of semi-automatic weapons and large magazine clips until a law prohibiting was put in place. Then demand was created. It's the same damned thing with our drug laws. So gun control, to some, may seem a politically meaningful measure, but short of an absolute prohibition on guns it's an empty one.

Then there's the laws in regards to mental illness. It's virtually impossible for family members with an adult member who is mentally ill and potentially violent, to be institutionalized without their consent, even when it's obvious that this person presents a danger or is capable of violence. The problem being, mentally ill people have rights too. So it's not just access to mental health treatment that's the problem. You can't help someone who doesn't seek it.

So here we have it. Of the 12 worst mass killings in the US 6 of them have happened in the last 5 years and I believe 10 of them have happened in the last 12. Almost all of them had these two similiarities. A mentally ill person with access to military style assault weapons both contributing factors to the excessive number of deaths. So what do we do?

Well as stated before, banning these type weapons won't work. That just creates demand. How do we reduce demand for these type of weapons now that Pandora is out of the box? I honestly don't know.

Then there's the mental health issue. How do you commit and institutionalize a person, without their consent, and thereby trampling on their constitutional protection to due process of law? Again, I honestly don't know.

Until we can determine solutions to these two mitigating factors the only thing I see of help, and it's a most unsatisfactory type of solution at that, is to increase public security. Malls, shoppig centers, schools and other public facilities will need to increase security to include armed security personel trained in public safety and the proper use of firearms.

Had the school in CT or the theatre in CO had armed security personell they could probably have detered, prevented or reduced the number of deaths.

But is this the kind of society we want? Is this what we have become? There has to be a better solution.

I just don't know what it is.
 
great post mott.

i don't know how else to do it unless we change our country's mentality. everytime i go to canada i am amazed at the difference between out two countries and i am sometimes only an hour north of the border. so, apparently, 60 miles of earth, wind, sea and air can change a person...right? it is not the weather or the land, it is their values as a nation.
 
cannabis said:
great post mott.

i don't know how else to do it unless we change our country's mentality. everytime i go to canada i am amazed at the difference between out two countries and i am sometimes only an hour north of the border. so, apparently, 60 miles of earth, wind, sea and air can change a person...right? it is not the weather or the land, it is their values as a nation.
Click to expand...
That's part of it but let's be fair. We have ten times the population and thus our problems are an order of magnitude more complex.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That's part of it but let's be fair. We have ten times the population and thus our problems are an order of magnitude more complex.
Click to expand...

i don't really think that is the issue. look at the density of england or other european countries that are similar to canada.

one would think, given the fact that canada is obsessed with US news and information, that they would be more like us. but they aren't.
 
Rune said:
http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html

[h=2]Friday, December 14, 2012[/h][h=3]Thinking the Unthinkable[/h]

Michael holding a butterfly
In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.


“I can wear these pants,” he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.


“They are navy blue,” I told him. “Your school’s dress code says black or khaki pants only.”


“They told me I could wear these,” he insisted. “You’re a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!”


“You can’t wear whatever pants you want to,” I said, my tone affable, reasonable. “And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You’re grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school.”


I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.


A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.


That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn’t have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

More at link
Click to expand...

Isn't the mother allowed to say she can't look after her son and have him given to "Children's Aid"/"Child Welfare"? Once they see how he reacts maybe then he'll get the proper treatment.
 
Another School Shooting, Another Psychiatric Drug? Federal Investigation Long Overdue

Fact: Despite 22 international drug regulatory warnings on psychiatric drugs citing effects of mania, hostility, violence and even homicidal ideation, and dozens of high profile shootings/killings tied to psychiatric drug use, there has yet to be a federal investigation on the link between psychiatric drugs and acts of senseless violence.

Fact: At least fourteen recent school shootings were committed by those taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs resulting in 109 wounded and 58 killed (in other school shootings, information about their drug use was never made public—neither confirming or refuting if they were under the influence of prescribed drugs.)

Fact: Between 2004 and 2011, there have been over 11,000 reports to the U.S. FDA’s MedWatch system of psychiatric drug side effects related to violence. These include 300 cases of homicide, nearly 3,000 cases of mania and over 7,000 cases of aggression.

Note: By the FDA’s own admission, only 1-10% of side effects are ever reported to the FDA, so the actual number of side effects occurring are most certainly higher.Of the 14 shooters documented to be under the influence of psychiatric drugs, seven were seeing either a psychiatrist or psychologist. See the list of school shooters on psychiatric drugs here:School shooters aren’t the only cases commonly found to be under the influence of psychiatric drugs, here is a list of 10 more recent murders and murder-suicides, committed by individualstaking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs resulting in an add​





http://www.cchrint.org/2012/07/20/t...senseless-shooting-another-psychotropic-drug/
 
cannabis said:
i don't really think that is the issue. look at the density of england or other european countries that are similar to canada.

one would think, given the fact that canada is obsessed with US news and information, that they would be more like us. but they aren't.
Click to expand...
They're a lot more like us than you think. But they aren't as population dense, and have a stable economy. They also haven't been at war for 12 years. They're also not as ethnically diverse as us, which if you look at a common factor in industrial nations with low crime, ethnic hegemony is high among them. Look at the rising crime in England, as they open their borders to immigrants. Or in Northern Ireland, which is incredibly divided.

Mott makes an excellent point about mental health, something I've long advocated as a reason for such events (and a less excellent point about why gun control doesn't work, but he's still in the ballpark). I would make it easier to parents and family members to institutionalize people who need it. Maybe a process similar to a restraining order. Something that, say a father, could initiate against their legally adult son. There would be a process, with a patient advocate. Would it be long? Somewhat, but I'm not an expert in mental health or determining what is and isn't dangerous. I know dangerous people, and how to spot them, but I couldn't procedurealize what I know into law. That's for someone else to decide.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That's the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about.

We certainly have a problem in the US with these violent mass murders in public places where the victims are sitting ducks.

Gun control isn't a solution to the problem. The assault weapons ban proved that. There was hardly any demand at all by the public for these types of semi-automatic weapons and large magazine clips until a law prohibiting was put in place. Then demand was created. It's the same damned thing with our drug laws. So gun control, to some, may seem a politically meaningful measure, but short of an absolute prohibition on guns it's an empty one.

Then there's the laws in regards to mental illness. It's virtually impossible for family members with an adult member who is mentally ill and potentially violent, to be institutionalized without their consent, even when it's obvious that this person presents a danger or is capable of violence. The problem being, mentally ill people have rights too. So it's not just access to mental health treatment that's the problem. You can't help someone who doesn't seek it.

So here we have it. Of the 12 worst mass killings in the US 6 of them have happened in the last 5 years and I believe 10 of them have happened in the last 12. Almost all of them had these two similiarities. A mentally ill person with access to military style assault weapons both contributing factors to the excessive number of deaths. So what do we do?

Well as stated before, banning these type weapons won't work. That just creates demand. How do we reduce demand for these type of weapons now that Pandora is out of the box? I honestly don't know.

Then there's the mental health issue. How do you commit and institutionalize a person, without their consent, and thereby trampling on their constitutional protection to due process of law? Again, I honestly don't know.

Until we can determine solutions to these two mitigating factors the only thing I see of help, and it's a most unsatisfactory type of solution at that, is to increase public security. Malls, shoppig centers, schools and other public facilities will need to increase security to include armed security personel trained in public safety and the proper use of firearms.

Had the school in CT or the theatre in CO had armed security personell they could probably have detered, prevented or reduced the number of deaths.

But is this the kind of society we want? Is this what we have become? There has to be a better solution.

I just don't know what it is.
Click to expand...

mott, you are so sensible and rational and even keeled. I am giving you a lifetime pass of not having my excessive hyperbole used on you. you're just too good of a dude
 
Sparta said:
They're a lot more like us than you think. But they aren't as population dense, and have a stable economy. They also haven't been at war for 12 years. They're also not as ethnically diverse as us, which if you look at a common factor in industrial nations with low crime, ethnic hegemony is high among them. Look at the rising crime in England, as they open their borders to immigrants. Or in Northern Ireland, which is incredibly divided.

Mott makes an excellent point about mental health, something I've long advocated as a reason for such events (and a less excellent point about why gun control doesn't work, but he's still in the ballpark). I would make it easier to parents and family members to institutionalize people who need it. Maybe a process similar to a restraining order. Something that, say a father, could initiate against their legally adult son. There would be a process, with a patient advocate. Would it be long? Somewhat, but I'm not an expert in mental health or determining what is and isn't dangerous. I know dangerous people, and how to spot them, but I couldn't procedurealize what I know into law. That's for someone else to decide.
Click to expand...
There have been such remedies in the past for mentally ill family members. They were abused and ruled unconstitutional. So back to square one. I'm like you, I don't know what the legal remedies would be for restraining the potentially violent mentally ill that would pass constitutional scrutiny. I also don't know what controls or compromises could be put into place that would limit the quantity of military style weapons and ammunition systems available to the public that would pass constitutional scrutiny. I don't know if they're are any. So I feel impotent in regards to formulating a workable holistic solution. Nor do I feel comfortable that the current ideological numbnuts (both sides of the aisle) that we have in congress could fix a leaking water hose let alone a problem of this magnitude. So I despair of the law as finding a solution.

So is their a sociological one? Can we find a rational narrative to communciate to citizens that would reduce demand for guns, particularly assault weapons and make them difficult to obtain through sheer lack of demand and not by legal prohibition, restraint or control? Can we legislate common sense? Case in point, I find the mother of the Sandy Hook killer unfucking consciencenable for having these types of weapons available and accesable to a mentally ill son. Why not tattoo "Shoot me and others!" on your forehead. How fucking irresponsible can you get. I guess I'll have to reserve judgement till I know more but right now I consider her as having blood on her hands too.

I totally despair on the issue of violent mentally ill people. I can think of no reasonable solution to dealing with them that does not deny them due process of law and their constitutionally protected rights. I fairly despair here.

That's why I have been so harsh on my criticism of some of the gun nuts around here. This knee jerk reflex to place their rights over the rights of these victims is just aggravating. Saying stupid shit like "We need to arm teachers!" isn't a solution and is just plain stupid. Ideology isn't going to fix this problem.
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
There have been such remedies in the past for mentally ill family members. They were abused and ruled unconstitutional. So back to square one. I'm like you, I don't know what the legal remedies would be for restraining the potentially violent mentally ill that would pass constitutional scrutiny. I also don't know what controls or compromises could be put into place that would limit the quantity of military style weapons and ammunition systems available to the public that would pass constitutional scrutiny. I don't know if they're are any. So I feel impotent in regards to formulating a workable holistic solution. Nor do I feel comfortable that the current ideological numbnuts (both sides of the aisle) that we have in congress could fix a leaking water hose let alone a problem of this magnitude. So I despair of the law as finding a solution.

So is their a sociological one? Can we find a rational narrative to communciate to citizens that would reduce demand for guns, particularly assault weapons and make them difficult to obtain through sheer lack of demand and not by legal prohibition, restraint or control? Can we legislate common sense? Case in point, I find the mother of the Sandy Hook killer unfucking consciencenable for having these types of weapons available and accesable to a mentally ill son. Why not tattoo "Shoot me and others!" on your forehead. How fucking irresponsible can you get. I guess I'll have to reserve judgement till I know more but right now I consider her as having blood on her hands too.
I totally despair on the issue of violent mentally ill people. I can think of no reasonable solution to dealing with them that does not deny them due process of law and their constitutionally protected rights. I fairly despair here.

That's why I have been so harsh on my criticism of some of the gun nuts around here. This knee jerk reflex to place their rights over the rights of these victims is just aggravating. Saying stupid shit like "We need to arm teachers!" isn't a solution and is just plain stupid. Ideology isn't going to fix this problem.
Click to expand...

That's only half of it. Add to that exposing him to a life of "survivalist", the worst is just around the corner philosophy, then taking him shooting, I presume, so he would be able to defend himself against the roaming and looting hoards. Instilling paranoia in a person she knows is mentally ill. And there was a woman whom the auhorities believed was capable of home schooling her son.

Apparently he was anti-social. Hmmm, I wonder why? :palm:
 
Has any politician called for a "discussion" on mental health? For those that really want to commit this kind of act getting guns to do it isn't going to be the issue no matter how many laws we pass. What we do with mentally ill people can have a big effect though.
 
Rune said:
http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html

Friday, December 14, 2012

Thinking the Unthinkable




Michael holding a butterfly


In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.


“I can wear these pants,” he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.


“They are navy blue,” I told him. “Your school’s dress code says black or khaki pants only.”


“They told me I could wear these,” he insisted. “You’re a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!”


“You can’t wear whatever pants you want to,” I said, my tone affable, reasonable. “And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You’re grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school.”


I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.


A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.


That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn’t have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

More at link
Click to expand...
I saw this elsewhere, and in my searches I found some who claim that she has a blog where she referred to her kids as animals, and she can't handle them.

apple0154 said:
That's only half of it. Add to that exposing him to a life of "survivalist", the worst is just around the corner philosophy, then taking him shooting, I presume, so he would be able to defend himself against the roaming and looting hoards. Instilling paranoia in a person she knows is mentally ill. And there was a woman whom the auhorities believed was capable of home schooling her son.

Apparently he was anti-social. Hmmm, I wonder why? :palm:
Click to expand...
I'm having trouble verifying the survivalist, or prepper claim. Her sister in law made the claim, and her friends say it's nonsense.
 
Althea said:
I saw this elsewhere, and in my searches I found some who claim that she has a blog where she referred to her kids as animals, and she can't handle them.

I'm having trouble verifying the survivalist, or prepper claim. Her sister in law made the claim, and her friends say it's nonsense.
Click to expand...

This is all I could find but there was another article mentioning she was a member of a club and the members would alternate homes for meetings but she never held a meeting at her place. Also, the landscaper was never invited in. She would give him his pay outside. While circumstantial, hoarders are known to not let people in their home. Something was amiss in that household.

(Excerpt) Friends and family have portrayed Mrs Lanza as a paranoid ‘survivalist’ who believed the world was on the brink of violent collapse.(End)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-and-social-collapse-say-reports-8422298.html
 
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