Dems caving on FISA

C

Cypress

Well-known member
Jesus effing christ.

I wanna see how Obama votes on this. That will be very telling.

Feingold: Wiretap deal 'no compromise, it's capitulation'

Wary of making the debate between liberty and security into a campaign issue, Congressional Democrats appear ready to retreat in their years-long effort to instill some sort of accountability on the Bush administration and its enablers in the telecommunications industry for their extra-legal surveillance of Americans.

Congressional leaders have reached an accord with the White House on the update to a controversial surveillance law that essentially legalizes the National Security Agency's warrantless wiretapping program and seems likely to let off the hook the phone companies that facilitated it.


http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Feingold_Wiretap_deal_no_compromise_its_0619.html
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Cypress said:
Jesus effing christ.

I wanna see how Obama votes on this. That will be very telling.
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I swear, there is really little point to having 2 parties anymore. They bicker over the small stuff, and then band together the wrong way on the big stuff.

My guess is that Obama is either absent, or votes against it. The general pubic is generally too complacent though to decipher reality amid a sea of campaign ads anyhow. I doubt it will sway voters either way.

Abd sorry for being a cack lately Cypress. I was in the mood for flaming, and I was tired of doing it to BattleBourne, so I arbitrarily picked you.

Maybe I'll send you some Sheepherder's bread as a token of my regret.
 
Cypress said:
Jesus effing christ.

I wanna see how Obama votes on this. That will be very telling.
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Fuck how he votes. It may be telling, but at this point I couldn't care less. He should have opposed this travesty from jumpstart and been out front on the issue. He didn't. He sat it out notwithstanding the fact that he is the leader of the Democratic party. And that really tells the story. Either he agrees with the law, which is a goddamned disgrace (to put it very very lightly) or he disagrees with the law and didn't do anything to stop it, which is equally disgraceful.
 
The democratic party has been all talk and no guts on EVERY SINGLE ISSUE. Now folding on FISA. They might as well put a small "r" behind the D on their title.
 
The two parties differ on minor points.

And the major ones are not an issues between them. That is why we get screwed.

Another issue that has been ignored is tax reform, but neither side wants to tackle it. Neither side wants to give up the benefits they get from K Street.
 
Beefy said:
I swear, there is really little point to having 2 parties anymore. They bicker over the small stuff, and then band together the wrong way on the big stuff.

My guess is that Obama is either absent, or votes against it. The general pubic is generally too complacent though to decipher reality amid a sea of campaign ads anyhow. I doubt it will sway voters either way.

Abd sorry for being a cack lately Cypress. I was in the mood for flaming, and I was tired of doing it to BattleBourne, so I arbitrarily picked you.

Maybe I'll send you some Sheepherder's bread as a token of my regret.
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Awww!
 
Beefy said:
I swear, there is really little point to having 2 parties anymore. They bicker over the small stuff, and then band together the wrong way on the big stuff.

My guess is that Obama is either absent, or votes against it. The general pubic is generally too complacent though to decipher reality amid a sea of campaign ads anyhow. I doubt it will sway voters either way.

Abd sorry for being a cack lately Cypress. I was in the mood for flaming, and I was tired of doing it to BattleBourne, so I arbitrarily picked you.

Maybe I'll send you some Sheepherder's bread as a token of my regret.
Click to expand...

Don't worry about it man.

Speaking of awesome bread, I was in Bishop a couple months ago, and I hit up Schotz Bakery.
 
Jarod said:
Why are they always caving?
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In this case, because some of the Dem leadership was complicit in giving Bush unconstitutional authorities after 9/11, and also I think the Telecom companies give butt loads of $$$ to both parties, to protect their interests.
 
When push comes to shove, neither party is truly interested about the constitutional protections of the people. They will stomp them flat and make whatever excuses sound good. And when people complain, the response is to disparage those complaining. It is either someone in love with the enemy, a non-patriot, or "clinging" to "non-issues".

Equally disturbing to me is that supporters of the two parties are picking and choosing which policies that violate constitutional protections the support, and which ones they protest.
 
Beefy said:
I swear, there is really little point to having 2 parties anymore. They bicker over the small stuff, and then band together the wrong way on the big stuff.

My guess is that Obama is either absent, or votes against it. The general pubic is generally too complacent though to decipher reality amid a sea of campaign ads anyhow. I doubt it will sway voters either way.

Abd sorry for being a cack lately Cypress. I was in the mood for flaming, and I was tired of doing it to BattleBourne, so I arbitrarily picked you.

Maybe I'll send you some Sheepherder's bread as a token of my regret.
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You got that shit right. Now I remember why I voted for Perot in 92. We have been betrayed again by our representatives.
 
Solitary said:
The two parties differ on minor points.

And the major ones are not an issues between them. That is why we get screwed.

Another issue that has been ignored is tax reform, but neither side wants to tackle it. Neither side wants to give up the benefits they get from K Street.
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It's vital that they appear to be on opposite sides. If Americans ever wise up and realize that they are all the same it would threaten their futures. So far there doesn't seem to be any danger of that happening because Americans pay more attention to what they say than what they do.
 
Dungheap said:
Fuck how he votes. It may be telling, but at this point I couldn't care less. He should have opposed this travesty from jumpstart and been out front on the issue. He didn't. He sat it out notwithstanding the fact that he is the leader of the Democratic party. And that really tells the story. Either he agrees with the law, which is a goddamned disgrace (to put it very very lightly) or he disagrees with the law and didn't do anything to stop it, which is equally disgraceful.
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He issued this statement...

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/20/bipartisanship/index.html

Given the grave threats that we face, our national security agencies must have the capability to gather intelligence and track down terrorists before they strike, while respecting the rule of law and the privacy and civil liberties of the American people. . . .

After months of negotiation, the House today passed a compromise that, while far from perfect, is a marked improvement over last year's Protect America Act. . . It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses.

It is not all that I would want. But given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives -– and the liberty –- of the American people.
 
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