District Court in NYC upholds unconstitutional gun law

Little-Acorn

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In its decision in DC v. Heller, the Supreme Court stated specifically that its ruling applied only to the Washington DC gun ban. But it made clear that it considered the right to own and carry a gun inside your own home, part of the right protected by the 2nd amendment which could not be restricted or taken away.

Now the Federal District Court in New York City has upheld a law in that city by which a disabled veteran's right to own a gun in his own home for self-defense, was taken away. This is probably one of many cases lining up for Supreme Court fights in the wake of the Heller decision.

There are many such gun bans in cities other than DC. They all comprise the huge amount of trash than must be disposed of, now that the Heller case has shown how the Court views the 2nd amendment.

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http://www.nysun.com/new-york/new-york-moves-to-defend-gun-law/81209/

New York Moves To Defend Gun Law

By JOSEPH GOLDSTEIN, Staff Reporter of the Sun
July 3, 2008

In a sign that federal courts here in New York will defend New York City's restrictive gun regulations, a judge is allowing the city to strip a disabled Vietnam War veteran of his gun license.

The decision, handed down this week, is likely the first court ruling to deal with New York's gun-permitting scheme since the Supreme Court declared that the Second Amendment gives citizens an individual right to keep a gun at home for self-defense.

The veteran who lost his gun license, Dominick DiNapoli, said the Supreme Court's decision ought to require that he gets back his gun permit.

"Who needs a gun more than someone like me, who is disabled and can't physically defend his home?" Mr. DiNapoli said in an interview.

The court decision, by Judge William Pauley III of U.S. District Court in Manhattan, does not mention the Second Amendment and defers entirely to the New York City Police Department's permitting process. New York's gun-licensing system is expected to come under challenge soon on allegations that it restricts law-abiding citizens from keeping guns at home for self-defense.

In 1970, police first issued Mr. DiNapoli, then a deer hunter, a license for a shotgun or rifle. In 2002, the department revoked it, citing both a brief period during which Mr. DiNapoli was homeless and criminal charges that had been filed against him and subsequently dropped, Judge Pauley wrote in the decision.

During the time Mr. DiNapoli was homeless — he was evicted from his apartment in 2001 — and failed to inform the police department of a change of address, as is required of permitted gun owners, Judge Pauley noted.

The criminal charges against Mr. DiNapoli, filed in 2000, alleged that he had sent a threatening letter to employees of the federal Department of Agriculture regarding his difficulties in obtaining food stamps. Federal prosecutors subsequently dropped the charges in 2004.

Mr. DiNapoli said he never threatened federal employees. He said that he had written to request food stamps and explain that he was having difficulty paying rent, which had, in turn, led to a feud with his landlord. Mr. DiNapoli said he had written that he feared the feud would turn violent and that he might need to use his guns in self-defense.

In the end, the police department had decided that the Mr. DiNapoli's actions "indicated a lack of good moral character for firearms possession," Judge Pauley wrote.

Mr. DiNapoli's suit argued that the police department places illegal administrative obstacles between people and firearm licenses, by requiring repeated visits to One Police Plaza to submit paperwork or attend hearings and interviews.

Mr. DiNapoli's suit claims that his disabilities — he suffers from joint disease, back trouble, and vertigo — render him unable to travel to One Police Plaza from his home in the Bronx to attend the hearings relating to his case.

In court papers, Mr. DiNapoli explains his complaint by quoting directly from the Declaration of Independence. He accuses the police department of holding inconvenient hearings "for the sole purpose of fatiguing" people "into compliance," one of the grievances listed against King George III. Mr. DiNapoli is a former UPS employee and self-employed woodworker, he said.
 
Once again I note that you should take the time to read the Supreme Court's decision in Helller, or at least read a legal analysis (or two) of the decision, so as to inform yourself of what the court actually decided and, more importantly for present purposes, did not decide.

As an initial matter, the Supreme Court did not even address whether the Second Amendment (and therefore Heller) applies to state and local governments, such as NYC.
 
Once again I note that you should take the time to read the Supreme Court's decision in Helller, or at least read a legal analysis (or two) of the decision, so as to inform yourself of what the court actually decided and, more importantly for present purposes, did not decide.

As an initial matter, the Supreme Court did not even address whether the Second Amendment (and therefore Heller) applies to state and local governments, such as NYC.
It did however say that US citizens have a right to Keep and Bear arms which would mean citizens of states and municipalities.
 
Held: (in pertinent part)

1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.

a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.
 
Held: (in pertinent part)

1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.

a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.

Thanks. I call your attention to note 23 of the opinion (not the syllabus):

“With respect to Cruikshank’s continuing validity on incorporation, a question not presented by this case, we note that Cruikshank also said that the First Amendment did not apply against the States and did not engage in the sort of Fourteenth Amendment inquiry required by our later cases. Our later decisions in Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252, 265 (1886) and Miller v. Texas, 153 U. S. 535, 538 (1894), reaffirmed that the Second Amendment applies only to the Federal Government.”
 
Once again I note that you should take the time to read the Supreme Court's decision in Helller, or at least read a legal analysis (or two) of the decision, so as to inform yourself of what the court actually decided and, more importantly for present purposes, did not decide.

As an initial matter, the Supreme Court did not even address whether the Second Amendment (and therefore Heller) applies to state and local governments, such as NYC.
If it is an individual right guaranteed by the Constitution then the states would not have the right to curtail it.
 
Yeah, Miller was based upon Barron v. Baltamore (1828), and came before Burlington, Quincy & Chicago Railroad Company v. Chicago (1907), which was the first incorporation case.
 
With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Then explain. It is inane to say that it is a protected individual right that the states can take from you. If it is protected as an individual right then the states have no right to take it from you.
 
Then explain. It is inane to say that it is a protected individual right that the states can take from you. If it is protected as an individual right then the states have no right to take it from you.


The Bill of Rights as originally drafted applied only to the Federal government and did not serve as a limitation on the powers of state and local governments. Most provisions of the Bill of Rights have been held to apply to constrain the powers of state and local governments through the Due Process clause of the 14th Amendment.

The Second Amendment is one of several that has not been "incorporated" through the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment and therefore has not been held to apply to constrain state and local government action.

It may be inane, but any originalist or strict constructionist will tell you that's the way it is.
 
If this is what you are hanging your hopes on, I look forward to you having your hopes dashed.


I'm not hanging my hopes on anything. I'm merely pointing out the state of the law as of today and reminding folks what was (and was not) decided in Heller.
 
Also footnotes in a supreme court opinion are NOT controlling authority and are merely persuasive. Also what you fail to see in Footnote 23 is that states are being put on notice that Cruikshank was WRONG as to the first amendment. Take that for what it is worth. I think the Court was telling states that the FIRST time a state issue comes up that they will find that the 2d applies through the 14th. Just wasn't addressed here because the DC city counsel is a federal government. Heller is EVERYTHING those of us that applaud it think it is. A conservative justice will have to die between now and when the state cases show up in the next few terms.
 
Also footnotes in a supreme court opinion are NOT controlling authority and are merely persuasive. Also what you fail to see in Footnote 23 is that states are being put on notice that Cruikshank was WRONG as to the first amendment. Take that for what it is worth. I think the Court was telling states that the FIRST time a state issue comes up that they will find that the 2d applies through the 14th. Just wasn't addressed here because the DC city counsel is a federal government. Heller is EVERYTHING those of us that applaud it think it is. A conservative justice will have to die between now and when the state cases show up in the next few terms.


I am aware that footnotes are not controlling authority, but the cases cited therein are indeed controlling authority and, as I said repeatedly now, those controlling authorities hold that the 2nd Amendment has not been incorporated and is not applicable to the states.

Also, I think it quite strange that you are so certain that the so-called conservative justices will have to die between now and when the state cases reach SCOTUS for the 2nd Amendment to not be incorporated. Certainly the professed originalists on the court will not agree that the 2nd Amendment is incorporated by the 14th Amendment. Scalia and Thomas are on record as opponents of the doctrine as a general matter. Certainly Alito and Roberts, strict constructionists that they are would be inclined to agree.

Strange as it may seem, a case addressing incorporation could be 5-4 with a Scalia, Thomas, Alito and Roberts minority. But, that would require consistency, something I'm not going to pretend the justices adhere to.
 
Except that in this case they will rely on Stare Decisis to say that the 2d applies through the 14th, much as it pains them. ;)
 
Had an interesting discussion a bit over a week ago with this subject with a first cousin who teaches constitutional law at Johns Hopkins...

but I am just a GED hillbilly so I ain't saying nuthin :)


If you guys really knew what I am like .....
 
The Bill of Rights as originally drafted applied only to the Federal government and did not serve as a limitation on the powers of state and local governments. Most provisions of the Bill of Rights have been held to apply to constrain the powers of state and local governments through the Due Process clause of the 14th Amendment.

The Second Amendment is one of several that has not been "incorporated" through the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment and therefore has not been held to apply to constrain state and local government action.

It may be inane, but any originalist or strict constructionist will tell you that's the way it is.
Article IV of the constitution already states that every citizen is entitled to their rights in the several states. Therefore if this is an individual right the states cannot infringe on their entitlement per Article IV regardless of Article 14 incorporation.
 
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