EPA is supposed to have a contigency plan for the oil spill

You're a fucking moron. A laughable one to be sure but a moron none the less. I mean you know about as much about environmental response and remediation and release management as you do about climatology, which is to say nothing at all.

First, it aint the Government that is supposed to have an affective plan in place. It's BP. In 1974 congress legislated requirements that any facility storing more than 1,320 gallons of oil above ground and 42,000 gallons below ground must have a Spill Prevention Control and Countermeasure (SPCC) Plan in place and approved by a registered Professional Engineer and in the case of a facility operating on a navigable waterway that plan must also be reviewed and approved the the US Coast Guard. So in that respect, BP is in noncompliance of the law for not being able to adequately implement their SPCC Plan.

As for contingency planing a National Integrated Contingency Plan has been in place since 1996. All facilities that store a Risk Management Plan (RMP) threshold quantity of chemicals, hazardous materials or hazardous waste have been required to have facility contingency plans in place under the Emergency Planning and Community Right to Know Act (EPCRA) since 1986, that includes Federal Facilities and the Federal Government has had a national contingency plan (NCP) in place since the passage of the Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation and Liability Act (CERCLA) of 1980.

Just another laughable example of you not knowing what the fuck you're talking about. Man you make Dixie look good! LOL
 
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Hey Damo, considering the tone Tinhead started this off with I think you should move this the current events folder. It's just simply impossible to not laugh at his stupidity here.
 
tinfoil said:
http://www.epa.gov/oem/docs/oil/fr/59fr47384.pdf

there's the law dumbfuck!1
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First, that link is not a "law". They're promulgated regulations which are different than a law.

Second, its hilarious that the wingnut contingent who spent a lifetime yelling "get government out of the way!", and lecturing us tree huggers that offshore drilling was a totally safe and excellent adventure, are now the ones who are whining for the government to solve the spill.

Third, I would trust Mott's knowledge of environmental law over yours in a heartbeat. You repair lawnmowers, and randomly post stuff you read on rightwing blogs. Mott is an environmental scientist.

Fourth, you posted a monstrosity of a PDF, hundreds of pages long. I'm sure you didn't read it, and you have no idea what is actually says.

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on these regulations, but I'm fairly astute at navigating and understanding environmental policy. The regulations clearly state that the responsible party is responsible for stopping the discharge. That means Mott was right, which is no surprise.

The regulations give the government the authority of oversight and coordination of clean up efforts by the responsible party and local, state, and national entities. It looks like the regulations could theoretically give the government the authority to actually take over efforts to stop the discharge if the responsible party can't do it, but the government doesn't have the equipment or expertise to plug a blown out well a mile down on the sea floor. So I see no feasible alternative but to require the responsible party, BP, to plug the well. That's the way I read it, but your PDF is like 500 pages, so that's just a cursory review of it. I'm still going to go with Mott the environmental scientist's opinion, over the musings of a lawnmower repairman



Finally, as always man, thanks for the outstanding comedy! :hand::hand::hand:
 
I would presume the Feds have unparalleled authority here, how else could they have their "boot on the neck of BP?" The White House is running around telling everyone they have been in complete control of this from day one... but you guys say this ain't so? Since passage of the Clean Water Act, the Feds have had almost unlimited power to do whatever they need to do in case of a national emergency, and this would certainly qualify. So let's stop pretending the Feds have no responsibility here, they have virtually ALL the responsibility, and they have failed miserably, as the government always does.

I continue to see the minions point fingers at BP, ensuring us all that BP will pay for all of this, even though that is exactly what BP has been doing. They continue with the "boot on the neck" rhetoric, and have waged a campaign to literally destroy the company... maybe they could wait until BP stops the leak and cleans up the mess first? But I guess it's more important to use this disaster to destroy a Big Greedy Oil Company, than to actually address the disaster itself? From the Liberals perspective, the environmental damage is not important, because they are not responsible for it, they can blame it all on BP, and use the catastrophic environmental damage to pound home the need for MORE government regulations and restrictions. It actually HELPS their cause, to have dead and suffering sea life all along the Gulf Coast.

You have to wonder, with this "boot on the neck/finger pointing" approach to this crisis, what would happen if thousands of people started dying from some mystery illness... will they just let us keep dying so they can use our rotting corpses as a visual example of why we need MORE government control over health care?
 
Dixie said:
From the Liberals perspective, the environmental damage is not important, because they are not responsible for it, they can blame it all on BP, and use the catastrophic environmental damage to pound home the need for MORE government regulations and restrictions.
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I actually agree with you and other conservatives. Assuming BP actually ever caps this well, we should seriously look into less regulations for offshore drilling.
 
Cypress said:
I actually agree with you and other conservatives. Assuming BP actually ever caps this well, we should seriously look into less regulations for offshore drilling.
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What we should do, is stop offering incentives for deep water drilling as opposed to shallow drilling, which we've been doing, and we need to open the areas in the ANWR, so we don't have to drill offshore as much. The last thing we need is another redundant layer of federal oversight, which we can see is absolutely useless in the face of such a disaster.
 
Dixie said:
What we should do, is stop offering incentives for deep water drilling as opposed to shallow drilling, which we've been doing, and we need to open the areas in the ANWR, so we don't have to drill offshore as much. The last thing we need is another redundant layer of federal oversight, which we can see is absolutely useless in the face of such a disaster.
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It wouldn't have mattered, Dixie. BP has one of the worst safety records in the oil business. They have done a horrible job maintaining the Alaska Pipeline, and have done everything they could do to ruin people who blew the whistle on them.

BP has consistently refused all offers of help from anyone.

This mess is their baby. And they should be made to pay.
 
Dixie said:
What we should do, is stop offering incentives for deep water drilling as opposed to shallow drilling, which we've been doing, and we need to open the areas in the ANWR, so we don't have to drill offshore as much. The last thing we need is another redundant layer of federal oversight, which we can see is absolutely useless in the face of such a disaster.
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I disagree. I've seen the seismic data and the log data. And the deep water gulf is the most prolific area for oil exploration and development in the united states. It's favorable for the accumulation of untapped, multi-billion barrel oil fields. There ain't nothing like that left to be found in the shallow water, near-shore gulf. That's a fact, jack.

But I agree with you, and conservative ideology more generally - that the oil industry needs far LESS drilling and safety regulations. Get government out of the way, man! Only marxists think that these oil companies need strict safety requirements and oversight on their drilling ops.
 
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Cypress said:
I disagree. I've seen the seismic data and the log data. And the deep water gulf is the most prolific area for oil exploration and development in the united states. It's favorable for the accumulation of untapped, multi-billion barrel oil fields. There ain't nothing like that left to be found in the shallow water, near-shore gulf. That's a fact, jack.

But I agree with you, and conservative ideology more generally - that the oil industry needs far LESS drilling and safety regulations. Get government out of the way, man! Only marxists think that these oil companies need strict safety requirements and oversight on their drilling ops.
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There is just as much, if not more, oil beneath the frozen tundra of ANWR, than in the entire Gulf of Mexico. You've not seen seismic data on areas not leased for oil exploration, as it's pointless to obtain data on areas off limits. It is a fact, since 1981, we have offered huge incentives to the oil companies to drill out in deep water, away from our coasts... give you a guess as to who was behind that initiative? It is more expensive to drill in deep water, any half-educated moron should be able to understand that, and the only reason it is preferable over shallow water drilling, is the incentives offered by the Feds, there are plenty of cheaper alternatives.

I am glad you agree with the conservative ideology, but this particular thing has nothing to do with Marxism, it's more a matter of common fucking goat sense. More regulation and restriction will not prevent another catastrophe, it didn't prevent this one. Destroying BP will not help the situation or clean up the mess.... and continual finger pointing by this administration, is not going to ever stop oil from gushing from the well. Nice to see you've come to your senses on these things, there may be hope for you Prissy!
 
Cypress said:
I disagree. I've seen the seismic data and the log data. And the deep water gulf is the most prolific area for oil exploration and development in the united states. It's favorable for the accumulation of untapped, multi-billion barrel oil fields. There ain't nothing like that left to be found in the shallow water, near-shore gulf. That's a fact, jack.

But I agree with you, and conservative ideology more generally - that the oil industry needs far LESS drilling and safety regulations. Get government out of the way, man! Only marxists think that these oil companies need strict safety requirements and oversight on their drilling ops.
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I take it that your last paragraph is sarcastic in nature?
 
Dixie said:
There is just as much, if not more, oil beneath the frozen tundra of ANWR, than in the entire Gulf of Mexico. You've not seen seismic data on areas not leased for oil exploration, as it's pointless to obtain data on areas off limits.
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No, I haven't seen the seismic for ANWR, but it does exist. It old, crappy 2-d seismic, but it's been reprocessed for the latest USGS reserve update. The management and geoscientists I knew working the north slope never seemed to think ANWR was some kind of awesome panacea - they didn't really see it as a world-class opportunity. But they wouldn't say no if you opened it for drilling, there could potentially be some cash to be made there. Drillers and oil men are never going to say no to any sort of opportunity to find oil and make a buck or two.

It is a fact, since 1981, we have offered huge incentives to the oil companies to drill out in deep water, away from our coasts... give you a guess as to who was behind that initiative? It is more expensive to drill in deep water, any half-educated moron should be able to understand that, and the only reason it is preferable over shallow water drilling, is the incentives offered by the Feds, there are plenty of cheaper alternatives.
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Wrong professor. They drill the deep water because the fields are enormous and potentially highly lucrative. The size of the reserves, the pressure connectivity of the sands, and the production rates blow away most shallow water fields and onshore fields.

Riddle me this batman....if the government bureaucrats and dolphin-hugging liberals are too blame for incentivizing and supposedly "forcing" oil companies to drill the Gulf deep water, then why was my multinational company and every other one on the planet, also drilling the deep water off Nigeria, Angola, Brazil, Equatorial Guinea, Trinidad, Norway, the UK, and numerous other places?

Is there some grand, worldwide conspiracy to drive oil companies out into deeper waters to placate the tree huggers?

Or is it possible, just possible, that I know what i'm talking about, and the deep water offers potentially vast reserves and eye-popping profits to oil companies?

We report, you decide.

I am glad you agree with the conservative ideology, but this particular thing has nothing to do with Marxism, it's more a matter of common fucking goat sense. More regulation and restriction will not prevent another catastrophe, it didn't prevent this one. Destroying BP will not help the situation or clean up the mess.... and continual finger pointing by this administration, is not going to ever stop oil from gushing from the well. Nice to see you've come to your senses on these things, there may be hope for you Prissy!
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No doubt. If you can get the GOP to run on a platform of wholesale deregulation of the oil industry, of wall street, banks, and get the GOP to proclaim publicly to americans that our safety and environmental laws do not need to be enforced - i.e., the Captains of Industry can be trusted to self regulate - I just might vote republican! Get to it, man!
 
Cypress said:
No doubt. If you can get the GOP to run on a platform of wholesale deregulation of the oil industry, of wall street, banks, and get the GOP to proclaim publicly to americans that our safety and environmental laws do not need to be enforced - i.e., the Captains of Industry can be trusted to self regulate - I just might vote republican! Get to it, man!
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Until the Dems caste off their Jacksonian attitudes toward business, I can't see myself voting Dim. They've held them since the 1820s, so I won't hold my breath...
 
Cypress said:
Wrong professor. They drill the deep water because the fields are enormous and potentially highly lucrative. The size of the reserves, the pressure connectivity of the sands, and the production rates blow away most shallow water fields and onshore fields.
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Guess you never heard of DWRRA :

Deep Water Royalty Relief Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Wiki_letter_w.svg" class="image"><img alt="Wiki letter w.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Wiki_letter_w.svg/40px-Wiki_letter_w.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/6/6c/Wiki_letter_w.svg/40px-Wiki_letter_w.svg.png

The United States Deep Water Royalty Relief Act (DWRRA) implemented a royalty-relief program that relieves eligible leases from paying royalties on defined amounts of deep-water petroleum production over Federal Outer Continental Shelf lands. After its expiration in 2000, the DWRRA was redefined and extended to promote continued interest in deep water. The Minerals Management Service (MMS) defines a "deep-water" lease as having a minimum water depth of 200 meters (656 ft).

Under the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act, as amended in 1978, and under the provisions of the Deepwater Royalty Relief Act of 1995 (DWRRA), relief from royalty obligations may be granted to increase production or to encourage development on certain producing or non-producing leases. Royalty relief may be applied to either active leases or to newly-offered leases directly in their fiscal terms. The primary MMS royalty relief programs include those that were required for Gulf of Mexico deepwater leases (located in water depth greater than 200 meters or 656 feet) issued in 1996-2000 under the DWRRA. After certain sunset provisions in the DWRRA expired in November 2000, the MMS adopted a program that provides lower amounts of royalty relief to each lease. The Federal Government has also offered royalty relief incentives since 2001 for natural gas production from certain deep wells in shallow water (15,000 feet total well depth) for newly issued leases, and commenced a similar program for active shallow water leases where drilling started on or after March 26, 2003.

The Energy Information Administration estimates there were 18,812 billion cubic feet (Bcf) of dry natural gas proved reserves and 4,144 million barrels (658,800,000 m3) of crude oil proved reserves in the Federal Gulf of Mexico as of the end of 2004. About 45 percent of the natural gas proved reserves and 79 percent of the crude oil proved reserves in the Federal Gulf of Mexico are in deepwater areas, although not all of this is subject to royalty relief. The following sections highlight provisions in several rules and regulations under which oil and natural gas production volumes may receive royalty relief.
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So as you can see, there is a huge financial incentive for these oil companies to drill 50 miles out at sea. It's NOT because there is more oil, higher pressure, etc... It's because there is more money to be made because there are huge financial incentives on the royalties from deep water drilling.

No doubt. If you can get the GOP to run on a platform of wholesale deregulation of the oil industry, of wall street, banks, and get the GOP to proclaim publicly to americans that our safety and environmental laws do not need to be enforced - i.e., the Captains of Industry can be trusted to self regulate - I just might vote republican! Get to it, man!
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See there's the whole deal.... You and the Democraps are hoping that people are just too fucking ignorant and full of emotion, that they will buy this load of horseshit about not having enough government nannyism here! I personally think it is a stellar example of how government totally FAILS to prevent or protect us against this kind of thing. Every environmental rule and regulation one could imagine, was fully in effect and being enforced, and look what happened? MORE rules and regulations are NOT going to do anything more to stop a future catastrophe... not one damn thing, just like they didn't do one damn thing to stop this one. Shit happens! Always has, always will! We deal with it and move on, we don't need the Government to jump in and tell everyone what they can and can't do, because of something like this. That is a purely emotive knee-jerk reaction, and fully expected from liberal emotive nitwits like yourself.
 
T&A said:
Until the Dems caste off their Jacksonian attitudes toward business, I can't see myself voting Dim. They've held them since the 1820s, so I won't hold my breath...
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Surely you jest. I think you're conflating "the Democrats" with a few posters you read on a routine basis: me, midcan, Taichiliberal and BlackasCoal, et al.

The democratic party is only nominally less business friendly than the GOP. Unless you consider the modest efforts of the minimum wage law, and anti-child labor laws to be prima facia evidence of socialism.



In other news, I sure effing hope these lying, liberal climate gate scientists are wrong. Those f*cking c*ck suckers are always lying and fudging data I've be told.

But, if this is anywhere close to being right, that BP oil is going all the way up the East coast.


BP Oil: Coming Soon to a Beach Near You

— By Kate Sheppard
* Thu Jun. 3, 2010 9:33 AM PDT

The National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) just released this horrifying animation of how ocean currents may carry all the oil in the Gulf of Mexico. According to their computer modeling of currents and the oil, the spill "might soon extend along thousands of miles of the Atlantic coast and open ocean as early as this summer."

"I've had a lot of people ask me, 'Will the oil reach Florida?'" says NCAR scientist Synte Peacock in a statement accompanying the animation, which he worked on. "Actually, our best knowledge says the scope of this environmental disaster is likely to reach far beyond Florida, with impacts that have yet to be understood."

The models show oil hitting Florida's Atlantic coast within a few weeks, then moving north as far as about Cape Hatteras, N.C., before heading east.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE-1G_476nA&feature=player_embedded
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http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/06/bp-oil-coming-beach-near-you-summer-2010
 
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