Euro-myths

C

Cypress

Well-known member
Contrary to what the Ayn Randites say, you can have competitive, successful nation-state with strong social safety nets, universal healthcare, generous paid vacation and maternity leave, and free or subsidized child care. Here, we are told that our modest social safety net need to be eliminated, or further dismantled, all in the name of lower taxes for the already affluent.


KRUGMAN: Since 2000, employment has actually grown a bit faster in Europe than in the United States — and since Europe has a lower rate of population growth, this has translated into a substantial rise in the percentage of working-age Europeans with jobs, even as America’s employment-population ratio has declined.

In particular, in the prime working years, from 25 to 54, the big gap between European and U.S. employment rates that existed a decade ago has been largely eliminated. If you think Europe is a place where lots of able-bodied adults just sit at home collecting welfare checks, think again...
According to the anti-government ideology that dominates much U.S. political discussion, low taxes and a weak social safety net are essential to prosperity. Try to make the lives of Americans even slightly more secure, we’re told, and the economy will shrivel up — the same way it supposedly has in Europe.

What’s behind Europe’s comeback? It’s a complicated story, probably involving a combination of deregulation (which has expanded job opportunities) and smart regulation. One of the keys to Europe’s broadband success is that unlike U.S. regulators, many European governments have promoted competition, preventing phone and cable companies from monopolizing broadband access.

What European countries definitely haven’t done is dismantle their strong social safety nets. Universal health care is a given. So are a variety of programs that support families in trouble, helping protect Europeans from the extreme poverty all too common in this country. All of this costs money — even though European countries spend far less on health care than we do — and European taxes are very high by U.S. standards.

But the next time a politician tries to scare you with the European bogeyman, bear this in mind: Europe’s economy is actually doing O.K. these days, despite a level of taxing and spending beyond the wildest ambitions of American progressives.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/opinion/11krugman.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Click to expand...
 
Generally unemployment is far worse in European countries. That being said... you want to turn America into a European lifestyle? first i get the 35hour work weeks, government pension, 6weeks vacation.. then you can tax me more. not the other way around.
 
Chapdog said:
Generally unemployment is far worse in European countries. That being said... you want to turn America into a European lifestyle? first i get the 35hour work weeks, government pension, 6weeks vacation.. then you can tax me more. not the other way around.
Click to expand...


I'm totally there! :)
 
Chapdog said:
Generally unemployment is far worse in European countries. That being said... you want to turn America into a European lifestyle? first i get the 35hour work weeks, government pension, 6weeks vacation.. then you can tax me more. not the other way around.
Click to expand...

Umm do the european countries use real umemploment figures vs the convoluted fantasy method we use ?

our actual unemployment is much higher than our published figure.
 
well i have never lived in Europe but i hear its a much simpler lifestyle. Ill take the simpler lifestyle if i don't have to work as hard.. but im not going to work ass off for higher taxes first with some promise of more perks that i or my kids wont ever see.
 
uscitizen said:
Umm do the european countries use real umemploment figures vs the convoluted fantasy method we use ?

our actual unemployment is much higher than our published figure.
Click to expand...


True. I think the myth of europeans sitting around on the dole, is a bit outdated.

I certainly think its possible to have business friendly polcies, and smart regulation, without going overboard with wholesale deregulation and dismantling the nation's social safety net.
 
Cypress said:
True. I think the myth of europeans sitting around on the dole, is a bit outdated.

I certainly think its possible to have business friendly polcies, and smart regulation, without going overboard with wholesale deregulation and dismantling the nation's social safety net.
Click to expand...

Welfare is, for the most part, an economically neutral operation. It's regulation of trade (in some places) that can create the tight spots.
 
I wouldn't take Krugman's word on anything much less his opinion.

BTW did anyone see the interview that he had with O'Reilly, with Russet as the interviewer? I was about 8 or 9 months ago. Man I thought little Paul was going to start crying! :p
 
Southern Man said:
Paying people not to produce is economically nuetral? :eek:
Click to expand...

Paying them to not produce would hurt the economy. As it is, wealth redistribution just throws money around. The "they won't work" effect is way overblown by the right, which has been proven time and time again in every country that has surpassed US growth for the past 20 years. They do it because of our huge business regulations that harm the economy, which righties ignore while they place class warfare with the darkies.
 
What one gets when reading the full column is that even Krugman admits Europe is still lagging behind the U.S. economically and employment wise. Yes he can spin it and say Europe's unemployment is dropping while America's is rising but look the number. It's still not close to the U.S.

The other issue he does not address is the aging of the European population. They do not have enough young workers to cover the benefits owed to the older generation (not disimilar to what we face in the U.S.) which will have a definite negative effect on their economy.

While there are people like Krugman and Cypress who want this European style economy fortunately it is not something we will convert to anytime soon.
 
uscitizen said:
Umm do the european countries use real umemploment figures vs the convoluted fantasy method we use ?

our actual unemployment is much higher than our published figure.
Click to expand...

QFT and cannot be repeated often enough because nearly everbody in this country actually believe those bs numbers.
 
cawacko said:
What one gets when reading the full column is that even Krugman admits Europe is still lagging behind the U.S. economically and employment wise. Yes he can spin it and say Europe's unemployment is dropping while America's is rising but look the number. It's still not close to the U.S.

The other issue he does not address is the aging of the European population. They do not have enough young workers to cover the benefits owed to the older generation (not disimilar to what we face in the U.S.) which will have a definite negative effect on their economy.

While there are people like Krugman and Cypress who want this European style economy fortunately it is not something we will convert to anytime soon.
Click to expand...

Give it time we will be spending Euros at the grocery store before you know it ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top