Filibuster Vs. tyranny of the mob.

Supposn

Verified User
Filibuster Vs. tyranny of the mob.

The purpose of retaining U.S. Senators’ right to filibuster is to defend the rights of minority parties against mob tyranny; but that defense should not require tolerating a minority’s’ eternity of tyranny.

I am not opposed to the worthy purpose of permitting filibusters; the concept should not stand alone as an unlimited absolute. Protection of minority rights should not require tolerating minorities’ eternally holding a majority’s political will as hostage.

Senators’ should not be able to anonymously halt appointments or other senate procedures. They should publicly put their names upon any blockage of senate procedure due to their exercise of “senatorial courtesy”. Individual or coalitions of senators should be required to publicly speak and “hold the “floor” of the senate if they wish to filibuster. The point of a filibuster should be to seek time for gathering public support.

It now requires 2/3 vote of the senate to halt a filibuster. It has been suggested that after 7 days, that that 67% qualification should be reduced each week of the filibuster by 2%.

The Democratic Party refrained from debating the federal budget and taxes on to the floors of both houses prior to the 2010 elections. Democrats’ behavior was cowardly and politically foolish. I changed my registration from Democrat to the Green Party but I really do not share their priorities.

For a half century I voted for Democrats in every general election and failed to vote in very few primary elections. Voting for the Green Party’s candidate was the only opportunity to express my complete opposition to Republicans and dissatisfaction with the Democratic Party.

The U.S. Senate cannot change their rules until January, 2015; Harry Reid blew it. If I’m then still alive in 2015, I will then consider re-registering and voting for Democrats.

Respectfully, Supposn
 
The tyranny of the mob is far more dangerous to the country than some do nothing Congress....

"Senators’ should not be able to anonymously halt appointments"....I agree....nor should presidents be able to side step the congress with 'signing statements' or "recess appointments".......

Nor should legislation and disaster appropriations be shotgunned with bull shit addons that have nothing to do with the purpose of the bills....

Many things need reform in Washington....trouble is, the people have lost control of their government in so many many ways.
 
The tyranny of the mob is far more dangerous to the country than some do nothing Congress....

"Senators’ should not be able to anonymously halt appointments"....I agree....nor should presidents be able to side step the congress with 'signing statements' or "recess appointments".......

Nor should legislation and disaster appropriations be shotgunned with bull shit addons that have nothing to do with the purpose of the bills....

Many things need reform in Washington....trouble is, the people have lost control of their government in so many many ways.

Nova, Excerpted from the 1st message:

"Filibusters defend the rights of minority parties against mob tyranny.
I am not opposed to filibusters’ worthy purposes but they should not stand alone as an unlimited absolute.
Protection of minority rights should not require tolerating minorities’ eternally holding a majority’s political will as hostage.

Senators’ should not be able to anonymously halt appointments or other senate procedures. They should publicly put their names upon any blockage of senate procedure due to their exercise of “senatorial courtesy”. Individual or coalitions of senators should be required to publicly speak and “hold the “floor” of the senate if they wish to filibuster.

A filibuster should be perceived as a single or coalition of senators determination that the issue at hand justifies seriously delaying the senate’s majority action. The point of a filibuster should be to seek time for gathering public support".

Where do we digress and where ndo we concur?
Respectfully, Supposn
 
Within the forum group “Defending the Truth” >
Political Issues > Civil Rights > Freedom of Speech forum, I posted this same topic:
“Filibuster-vs-tyranny-mob”.

A member, JimmyB wrote this response:
[“I can see that, old school filibuster as in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. The technical filibuster can be a bit much and a little too easy.

The Senate was created to be the slow deliberative body. This was an exchange between Washington and Jefferson:
"Why," said Washington, "did you just now pour that coffee into your saucer before drinking it?"

"To cool it," said Jefferson; "my throat is not made of brass."

"Even so," said Washington, "we pour our legislation into the Senatorial saucer to cool it”.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/faculty/f...ummer.2010.doc ].
The quote’s within Page 11 of the link entitled “Second Opinions” with the reference # 36 leading to:
Thomas Wentworth Higginson, The Birth of a Nation, 68 HARPER’S NEW MONTHLY MAG. 238, 242 (1884). For the apocryphal character of the anecdote, see RESPECTFULLY QUOTED 60 (Suzy Platt, ed., 1992).

Respectfully, Supposn
 
Fillibusters should be required to stand until the opposition yields. No more of this fooling around and then moving on to new business.
 
The purpose of retaining U.S. Senators’ right to filibuster is to defend the rights of minority parties against mob tyranny; but that defense should not require tolerating a minority’s’ eternity of tyranny.

The filibuster was created as a result of the senate, early in its history, eliminating a rule they considered redundant but afterwards left the chamber with no way to end debate. It perhaps worked somewhat when it was used sparingly, but over the past few years it's been abused to such a degree that the chamber effectively has a supermajority requirement, which was never the intent of anyone. The founders put plenty of measures for protection minority rights in the constitution. A supermajority vote to pass basic laws was not one of them. The legislative process is already very difficult without the filibuster. In the filibusters new, heavily abused form, in which no one seems to be able to find a time when it is not called for, and pretty much everyone reflexively calls for it when any bill they want to vote against happens to be up, legislation is nearly impossible. There comes a time when gridlock reaches such a level that it threatens national stability, and I'm sure that's not what the founders intended.
 
The tyranny of the mob is far more dangerous to the country than some do nothing Congress....

Yep, that's why the Weimar republic functioned beautifully and was so successful, it's inability to pass laws and govern the nation. Luckily, we seem to be heading down that road.

nor should presidents be able to side step the congress with 'signing statements' or "recess appointments".......

Recess appointments are in the constitution.
 
Could anyone please define for me, exactly at what point of legislative gunk we stop having a "tyranny of the majority"? You'd think that having two different legislatures elected in different ways, by different constituencies (one based on OMOV, and one giving equal representation to states), and at different times, who both have to pass the bill, and then muss pass it again with a 2/3 majority should the president decide to veto it, and also are always in danger of having the judicial branch decide that it's not constitutional, would be pretty good. But no, that is apparently not enough. It seems that we're still in a tyranny of the majority unless we arbitrarily require permanent supermajorities in one of the bodies as well. Let's ignore ephemeral things like the fact that, in the past few years while the filibuster has been abused to this degree, we've already nearly failed to do basic things like not defaulting on our debt several times, a level of political instability usually associated with banana republics. No, we need to worry about "tyranny of the majority". Why 3/5, though? Why not 2/3? 3/4? 9/10? 99/100? Then we'd have no worries about tyranny of the majority at all. Really, you'd be too concerned with the roaming bands of warlords to pay attention to things like that anyway.
 
I mean, sure, almost everyone wants the warlords put down and for the civil war to end. But the warlords are Americans too, and just another minority, like any other minority. Sure, you don't want to be plundered, raped, and pillaged. But should your voice mean anything more just because there are a lot like yours? This is like two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. The warlords are like an (especially) well-armed sheep contesting the vote. Today, we put the warlords down, restore some semblance of order, and try to put the pieces of our fractured civilization back together, and tomorrow, we're taking all of the rich peoples money and giving it to those people.
 
I honestly don't like the filibuster. The late not-so-great Robert Byrd soured me to it, and I'm not sure I'd like it much even if the events of the 60s had not occurred.
 
“Government is not reason it is not eloquence, its force like fire a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.” (George Washington)

“If I could go to heaven but only with a party, I would not go.” (Thomas Jefferson)

“Don’t vote, it only encourages the bastards.” (P. J. O’Rourke)
 
Fillibusters should be required to stand until the opposition yields. No more of this fooling around and then moving on to new business.
Filibusters are grossly abused. They were never intended to subvert government function. If a party wants to filibuster in the Senate they should hold the floor. Besides, thee is nothing written in the Constitution that a 2/3 majority is required to over ride a filibuster. This is a Senate rule. I suggest you read the history of how the filibuster became a critical aspect of undermining Republics of the past. I'd also suggest that in our own history the filibuster has most often been used not to protect the rights of minorities but to prevent the expansion of the rights of individuals and minorities. There is no question to that it has been southern conservatives who have most grossly abused the filibuster. We have a rediculous situation where a backward, predominantly rural, portion of the population is attempting to dominate our body politic with socio-economic beliefs more appropriate to the 19th century and not the 21st.
 
i'm never amazed at how one party can whine so much about having their agenda halted by rules meant to protect the minority. no wonder y'all ridicule my police state posts. It's exactly what you yearn for.
 
Back
Top