From nobel prize winning economist Paul Krugman, "The Real Plumbers of Ohio"

FUCK THE POLICE

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From nobel prize winning economist Paul Krugman, "The Real Plumbers of Ohio"

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/20/opinion/20krugman.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin


The Real Plumbers of Ohio


Article Tools Sponsored By
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: October 20, 2008

Forty years ago, Richard Nixon made a remarkable marketing discovery. By exploiting America’s divisions — divisions over Vietnam, divisions over cultural change and, above all, racial divisions — he was able to reinvent the Republican brand. The party of plutocrats was repackaged as the party of the “silent majority,” the regular guys — white guys, it went without saying — who didn’t like the social changes taking place.

It was a winning formula. And the great thing was that the new packaging didn’t require any change in the product’s actual contents — in fact, the G.O.P. was able to keep winning elections even as its actual policies became more pro-plutocrat, and less favorable to working Americans, than ever.

John McCain’s strategy, in this final stretch, is based on the belief that the old formula still has life in it.

Thus we have Sarah Palin expressing her joy at visiting the “pro-America” parts of the country — yep, we’re all traitors here in central New Jersey. Meanwhile we’ve got Mr. McCain making Samuel J. Wurzelbacher, a k a Joe the Plumber — who had confronted Barack Obama on the campaign trail, alleging that the Democratic candidate would raise his taxes — the centerpiece of his attack on Mr. Obama’s economic proposals.

And when it turned out that the right’s new icon had a few issues, like not being licensed and comparing Mr. Obama to Sammy Davis Jr., conservatives played victim: see how much those snooty elitists hate the common man?

But what’s really happening to the plumbers of Ohio, and to working Americans in general?

First of all, they aren’t making a lot of money. You may recall that in one of the early Democratic debates Charles Gibson of ABC suggested that $200,000 a year was a middle-class income. Tell that to Ohio plumbers: according to the May 2007 occupational earnings report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average annual income of “plumbers, pipefitters and steamfitters” in Ohio was $47,930.

Second, their real incomes have stagnated or fallen, even in supposedly good years. The Bush administration assured us that the economy was booming in 2007 — but the average Ohio plumber’s income in that 2007 report was only 15.5 percent higher than in the 2000 report, not enough to keep up with the 17.7 percent rise in consumer prices in the Midwest. As Ohio plumbers went, so went the nation: median household income, adjusted for inflation, was lower in 2007 than it had been in 2000.

Third, Ohio plumbers have been having growing trouble getting health insurance, especially if, like many craftsmen, they work for small firms. According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, in 2007 only 45 percent of companies with fewer than 10 employees offered health benefits, down from 57 percent in 2000.

And bear in mind that all these data pertain to 2007 — which was as good as it got in recent years. Now that the “Bush boom,” such as it was, is over, we can see that it achieved a dismal distinction: for the first time on record, an economic expansion failed to raise most Americans’ incomes above their previous peak.

Since then, of course, things have gone rapidly downhill, as millions of working Americans have lost their jobs and their homes. And all indicators suggest that things will get much worse in the months and years ahead.

So what does all this say about the candidates? Who’s really standing up for Ohio’s plumbers?

Mr. McCain claims that Mr. Obama’s policies would lead to economic disaster. But President Bush’s policies have already led to disaster — and whatever he may say, Mr. McCain proposes continuing Mr. Bush’s policies in all essential respects, and he shares Mr. Bush’s anti-government, anti-regulation philosophy.

What about the claim, based on Joe the Plumber’s complaint, that ordinary working Americans would face higher taxes under Mr. Obama? Well, Mr. Obama proposes raising rates on only the top two income tax brackets — and the second-highest bracket for a head of household starts at an income, after deductions, of $182,400 a year.

Maybe there are plumbers out there who earn that much, or who would end up suffering from Mr. Obama’s proposed modest increases in taxes on dividends and capital gains — America is a big country, and there’s probably a high-income plumber with a huge stock market portfolio out there somewhere. But the typical plumber would pay lower, not higher, taxes under an Obama administration, and would have a much better chance of getting health insurance.

I don’t want to suggest that everyone would be better off under the Obama tax plan. Joe the plumber would almost certainly be better off, but Richie the hedge fund manager would take a serious hit.

But that’s the point. Whatever today’s G.O.P. is, it isn’t the party of working Americans.
 
Joe the Plumber

"I have a dream to advance and own my own buisiness, Mr Obama, what will you do to help?"

Obama

"I'm going to raise your taxes and spread the wealth"
 
Also, being someone in the housing sector, it's not uncommon to make 250K one year and lose 100K the next. Ask any contractor what the last 10 years have been like.
 
Joe the Plumber

"I have a dream to advance and own my own buisiness, Mr Obama, what will you do to help?"

Obama

"I'm going to raise your taxes and spread the wealth"

Nobel prize winning economist Paul Krugman:


"Maybe there are plumbers out there who earn that much, or who would end up suffering from Mr. Obama’s proposed modest increases in taxes on dividends and capital gains — America is a big country, and there’s probably a high-income plumber with a huge stock market portfolio out there somewhere. But the typical plumber would pay lower, not higher, taxes under an Obama administration, and would have a much better chance of getting health insurance.

I don’t want to suggest that everyone would be better off under the Obama tax plan. Joe the plumber would almost certainly be better off, but Richie the hedge fund manager would take a serious hit."
 
I know many, many contractors, many more than Krugman, and unless you're a labor union plumber, you have years that you make alot and years you lose alot, they shouldn't be punished in good years or have the incentives to start their own buisiness taken away by tax increases.


But hey, I'm for a flat tax because the rich would actually pay more with one.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/20/opinion/20krugman.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin


The Real Plumbers of Ohio


Article Tools Sponsored By
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: October 20, 2008

Forty years ago, Richard Nixon made a remarkable marketing discovery. By exploiting America’s divisions — divisions over Vietnam, divisions over cultural change and, above all, racial divisions — he was able to reinvent the Republican brand. The party of plutocrats was repackaged as the party of the “silent majority,” the regular guys — white guys, it went without saying — who didn’t like the social changes taking place.

It was a winning formula. And the great thing was that the new packaging didn’t require any change in the product’s actual contents — in fact, the G.O.P. was able to keep winning elections even as its actual policies became more pro-plutocrat, and less favorable to working Americans, than ever.

John McCain’s strategy, in this final stretch, is based on the belief that the old formula still has life in it.

Thus we have Sarah Palin expressing her joy at visiting the “pro-America” parts of the country — yep, we’re all traitors here in central New Jersey. Meanwhile we’ve got Mr. McCain making Samuel J. Wurzelbacher, a k a Joe the Plumber — who had confronted Barack Obama on the campaign trail, alleging that the Democratic candidate would raise his taxes — the centerpiece of his attack on Mr. Obama’s economic proposals.

And when it turned out that the right’s new icon had a few issues, like not being licensed and comparing Mr. Obama to Sammy Davis Jr., conservatives played victim: see how much those snooty elitists hate the common man?

But what’s really happening to the plumbers of Ohio, and to working Americans in general?

First of all, they aren’t making a lot of money. You may recall that in one of the early Democratic debates Charles Gibson of ABC suggested that $200,000 a year was a middle-class income. Tell that to Ohio plumbers: according to the May 2007 occupational earnings report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average annual income of “plumbers, pipefitters and steamfitters” in Ohio was $47,930.

Second, their real incomes have stagnated or fallen, even in supposedly good years. The Bush administration assured us that the economy was booming in 2007 — but the average Ohio plumber’s income in that 2007 report was only 15.5 percent higher than in the 2000 report, not enough to keep up with the 17.7 percent rise in consumer prices in the Midwest. As Ohio plumbers went, so went the nation: median household income, adjusted for inflation, was lower in 2007 than it had been in 2000.

Third, Ohio plumbers have been having growing trouble getting health insurance, especially if, like many craftsmen, they work for small firms. According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, in 2007 only 45 percent of companies with fewer than 10 employees offered health benefits, down from 57 percent in 2000.

And bear in mind that all these data pertain to 2007 — which was as good as it got in recent years. Now that the “Bush boom,” such as it was, is over, we can see that it achieved a dismal distinction: for the first time on record, an economic expansion failed to raise most Americans’ incomes above their previous peak.

Since then, of course, things have gone rapidly downhill, as millions of working Americans have lost their jobs and their homes. And all indicators suggest that things will get much worse in the months and years ahead.

So what does all this say about the candidates? Who’s really standing up for Ohio’s plumbers?

Mr. McCain claims that Mr. Obama’s policies would lead to economic disaster. But President Bush’s policies have already led to disaster — and whatever he may say, Mr. McCain proposes continuing Mr. Bush’s policies in all essential respects, and he shares Mr. Bush’s anti-government, anti-regulation philosophy.

What about the claim, based on Joe the Plumber’s complaint, that ordinary working Americans would face higher taxes under Mr. Obama? Well, Mr. Obama proposes raising rates on only the top two income tax brackets — and the second-highest bracket for a head of household starts at an income, after deductions, of $182,400 a year.

Maybe there are plumbers out there who earn that much, or who would end up suffering from Mr. Obama’s proposed modest increases in taxes on dividends and capital gains — America is a big country, and there’s probably a high-income plumber with a huge stock market portfolio out there somewhere. But the typical plumber would pay lower, not higher, taxes under an Obama administration, and would have a much better chance of getting health insurance.

I don’t want to suggest that everyone would be better off under the Obama tax plan. Joe the plumber would almost certainly be better off, but Richie the hedge fund manager would take a serious hit.

But that’s the point. Whatever today’s G.O.P. is, it isn’t the party of working Americans.

Strawman. Bottom line is Obama walked into this guy that asked a question. Obama went off his points and answered honestly. A message many disagree with, indeed may have turned votes in some quarters.

So the press vilifies him and the libs go nuts. Another day in America.
 
I know many, many contractors, many more than Krugman, and unless you're a labor union plumber, you have years that you make alot and years you lose alot, they shouldn't be punished in good years or have the incentives to start their own buisiness taken away by tax increases.


But hey, I'm for a flat tax because the rich would actually pay more with one.

Right. Yeah, right, I mean.

The rich would pay less. The poor would pay less. The middle class would be stuck with a massive accross the board tax increase.
 
Strawman. Bottom line is Obama walked into this guy that asked a question. Obama went off his points and answered honestly. A message many disagree with, indeed may have turned votes in some quarters.

So the press vilifies him and the libs go nuts. Another day in America.

He wouldn't have ever had another word said about him if the right hadn't tried to make him into a pseudo-hero and the centerpiece of their campaign.
 
Joe the Plumber

"I have a dream to advance and own my own buisiness, Mr Obama, what will you do to help?"

Obama

"I'm going to raise your taxes and spread the wealth"

As opposed to what?

Joe the Plumber

"I have a dream to advance and own my own buisiness, Mr McCain, what will you do to help?"

McCain

"I'm going to give more tax breaks for the rich. Vote for me and after the election go fuck yourself." (i'm paraphrasing there)


In reality both are going to shaft Joe the Plumber who isn't called Joe and who isn't a plumber, but in this make believe world of fairies and fake plumbers who cares?
 
He wouldn't have ever had another word said about him if the right hadn't tried to make him into a pseudo-hero and the centerpiece of their campaign.
BS. Even before the debate Desh had already posted how he didn't own a business... that he hadn't yet gained his license and a few other things.

They were vetting that guy like a candidate within seconds of his question.
 
Nobel prize winning economist Paul Krugman:


"Maybe there are plumbers out there who earn that much, or who would end up suffering from Mr. Obama’s proposed modest increases in taxes on dividends and capital gains — America is a big country, and there’s probably a high-income plumber with a huge stock market portfolio out there somewhere. But the typical plumber would pay lower, not higher, taxes under an Obama administration, and would have a much better chance of getting health insurance.

I don’t want to suggest that everyone would be better off under the Obama tax plan. Joe the plumber would almost certainly be better off, but Richie the hedge fund manager would take a serious hit."

Ummm, Joe was asking the question in the "future tense" he never claimed to be earning that much now. Owning a plumbing business is different then being "just a plumber" wouldn't you agree? Owning a small business is already risky, add to that a greater tax burden and you make it just that much more difficult to stay above water for the typical 5 years that it takes to reach profitability. Obama's so called 3k tax credit to a Joe the plumber's small business is silly, it costs a hell of a lot more then that to hire and care for an employee. In addition, Obama's plan is still pretty sketchy http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/16/joe-the-plumber-throws-a-wrench-into-tax-debate/
 
Ummm, Joe was asking the question in the "future tense" he never claimed to be earning that much now. Owning a plumbing business is different then being "just a plumber" wouldn't you agree? Owning a small business is already risky, add to that a greater tax burden and you make it just that much more difficult to stay above water for the typical 5 years that it takes to reach profitability. Obama's so called 3k tax credit to a Joe the plumber's small business is silly, it costs a hell of a lot more then that to hire and care for an employee. In addition, Obama's plan is still pretty sketchy http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/16/joe-the-plumber-throws-a-wrench-into-tax-debate/

Nobel-prize winning economist Paul Krugman clearly thinks differently.
 
Nobel-prize winning economist Paul Krugman clearly thinks differently.

I think the The Small Business Administartion has a tad bit more "hands on" experience in this area don't you? http://www.bizjournals.com/edit_special/72.html?t=printable

72.html
 
Ummm, Joe was asking the question in the "future tense" he never claimed to be earning that much now. Owning a plumbing business is different then being "just a plumber" wouldn't you agree? Owning a small business is already risky, add to that a greater tax burden and you make it just that much more difficult to stay above water for the typical 5 years that it takes to reach profitability. Obama's so called 3k tax credit to a Joe the plumber's small business is silly, it costs a hell of a lot more then that to hire and care for an employee. In addition, Obama's plan is still pretty sketchy http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/16/joe-the-plumber-throws-a-wrench-into-tax-debate/
Hello, and welcome to the board.
 
Nobel prize winning economist Paul Krugman:


"Maybe there are plumbers out there who earn that much, or who would end up suffering from Mr. Obama’s proposed modest increases in taxes on dividends and capital gains — America is a big country, and there’s probably a high-income plumber with a huge stock market portfolio out there somewhere. But the typical plumber would pay lower, not higher, taxes under an Obama administration, and would have a much better chance of getting health insurance.

I don’t want to suggest that everyone would be better off under the Obama tax plan. Joe the plumber would almost certainly be better off, but Richie the hedge fund manager would take a serious hit."
Um yeah about the Nobel thing, he won that for his work on trade, not the tripe he wrote above.

Plumbers like a lot of tradesmen do better than on paper because it's much easier for them to earn dough under the table.
I used to live next door to a plumber, if I needed something fixed I'd call him over and just pay him straight cash, why would I call the company he works for - to pay more and pay tax?
And he did extra work for a few in the neighborhood.
 
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