Gonzo's Second Chance - National Collaborativism revisited

Kamala Trump

Kamala Trump

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Gonzo in return for the allegiance of everyone else, will the elites then, in return, promise to give gainful employment to citizens first instead of shipping jobs overseas or encouraging immigrants to take them?
 
All classes work towards the survival of the State, so I would say that it is probable.

It is neither unrestrained capitalism nor communism.
 
gonzojournals said:
All classes work towards the survival of the State, so I would say that it is probable.

It is neither unrestrained capitalism nor communism.
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The state is an abstraction. as such, it's SURVIVAL is irrelevant, it is the people who it serves who have an interest in it's continuance. Who does it serve?

Your plan has a better chance of succeeding if you force elites to employ americans. If they want to pull out of the country then, fine, let them go.
 
AssHatZombie said:
The state is an abstraction. as such, it's SURVIVAL is irrelevant, it is the people who it serves who have an interest in it's continuance. Who does it serve?

Your plan has a better chance of succeeding if you force elites to employ americans. If they want to pull out of the country then, fine, let them go.
Click to expand...

The State is an entity formed by social contract between Society and the need for Social Order.

Because of the State's role as the defender of Society, its survival is utterly important. This is why the people serve the State (although only to a point) and the State in turn serves the people.

As I said, since the ultimate goal of the State is self-continuation (and since it is forced to look after the best interests of the citizens in order to achieve this goal) it is very likely that a National Collaborativist economy would be the same as the "third way" economy of 1920s Italy.

The worker would protected by the State in a manner that capitalism cannot provide, while the market would still remain free (although monitored) in a manner that communism cannot provide.
 
gonzojournals said:
The State is an entity formed by social contract between Society and the need for Social Order.

Because of the State's role as the defender of Society, its survival is utterly important. This is why the people serve the State (although only to a point) and the State in turn serves the people.

As I said, since the ultimate goal of the State is self-continuation (and since it is forced to look after the best interests of the citizens in order to achieve this goal) it is very likely that a National Collaborativist economy would be the same as the "third way" economy of 1920s Italy.

The worker would protected by the State in a manner that capitalism cannot provide, while the market would still remain free (although monitored) in a manner that communism cannot provide.
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Wow you've discovered that a middle ground exists between anarcho-capitalism and unreconstructed Marxism. Zomg!
 
gonzojournals said:
All classes work towards the survival of the State, so I would say that it is probable.

It is neither unrestrained capitalism nor communism.
Click to expand...

The problem is---that is not what I learned in HS. The state works for the people, and if any survival is going to be protected it will be the peoples--not the state. Now our state is so big--the people need to protect themselfs from it. How did our founding fathers know that?

I am sorry--you can make up any name you want for it.

you are talking about collectivism--and that is communisum. You are a communist---directly--no substitutes
 
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theMAJORITY said:
The problem is---that is not what I learned in HS. The state works for the people, and if any survival is going to be protected it will be the peoples--not the state. Now our state is so big--the people need to protect themselfs from it. How did our founding fathers know that?
Click to expand...
Of course the State works for the people. But how does the State work for the people? By protecting the people, ensuring safety, liberty, and the like. Providing for the people would be communism; instead, the people provide for themselves, and the State ensures that they are able to enjoy the benefits of their work, as well as ensuring that their labour is not exploited. We are talking about capitalism, just not capitalism as it is currently incarnated. The State would work with industry and the workers to find the best solutions for all parties involved while maintaining a free market.

I am sorry--you can make up any name you want for it.

you are talking about collectivism--and that is communisum. You are a communist---directly--no substitutes
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Actually, this is about as anti-communism as it gets--- if you really went to high school, you would probably already know that (nor is it collectivism).

Whereas communism aims to abolish social class, National Collaborativism acknowledges that social class is both inevitable and essential to the survival of the State and the happiness of its citizens. Rather than engage in class struggle, then, it aims to provide class collaboration and cooperation.
 
Epicurus said:
Heh, my point was that that's pretty much what we've had for most of history with few exceptions either way.
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Well, my explanation here is over-simplified...I am quite sure that you realise the difference between our modern system and class collaboration/corporatism, however.
 
gonzojournals said:
Of course the State works for the people. But how does the State work for the people? By protecting the people, ensuring safety, liberty, and the like. Providing for the people would be communism; instead, the people provide for themselves, and the State ensures that they are able to enjoy the benefits of their work, as well as ensuring that their labour is not exploited. We are talking about capitalism, just not capitalism as it is currently incarnated. The State would work with industry and the workers to find the best solutions for all parties involved while maintaining a free market.
Click to expand...


Agreed with that. Good job explaining yourself---your no liberial from todays commie colleges that was allowed to pass.
 
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