Heaven and Hell

C

Cypress

"Cypress you motherfucking whore!"
Are Heaven and Hell actual places that people go when they die, or do they metaphorically describe states of the soul?
This debate played out in 1999 when Pope John Paul II described Heaven and Hell as being states of the soul rather than physical places. Heaven is the state of the soul in communion with God and in God’s presence; Hell is the state of being away from God, alienated and separated from one’s creator.
Some conservative Protestant theologians disagreed, arguing that they are actual places, and that if people did not believe that, they would lose the incentive to behave morally.

The Afterlife: Heaven
Exclusivists believe that only Christians can be saved. Pluralists see people of each religion as eligible to enter Heaven as believers in their own religion.

In a recent survey, 83 percent of Christians in mainline Protestant churches, 79 percent of Catholics, and 57 percent of Evangelical Protestants said “many religions can lead to eternal life.” This is a dramatic increase from the early 20th century, when fewer than 10 percent of Christians were pluralists.



Source credit: Mark Berkson, Hamline University
 
Catholic theology describes Hell as the absence of God, not eternal fire and brimstone.

As for Heaven, I can't imagine how it would work.

Every single soul would have to have it's own individual heaven to be satisfied.

Even if we wanted other people with us, they would be illusions, our version of the person we want
rather than self-actualized versions.

Why would anybody even want that?
Isn't the perfect peace that comes with transitioning to non-exitance comforting enough?
That's all for which I hope.
 
Cypress said:
Are Heaven and Hell actual places that people go when they die, or do they metaphorically describe states of the soul?
This debate played out in 1999 when Pope John Paul II described Heaven and Hell as being states of the soul rather than physical places. Heaven is the state of the soul in communion with God and in God’s presence; Hell is the state of being away from God, alienated and separated from one’s creator...
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I'm with the Pope on this one. God = Godliness = Good. Evil is the absence of good. Free will allows people to choose where they are on that spectrum.
 
Doc Dutch said:
I'm with the Pope on this one. God = Godliness = Good. Evil is the absence of good. Free will allows people to choose where they are on that spectrum.
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Demons, eternal hellfires, and pitchforks seems like a relic of Dante and the Middle Ages.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Definitely Christian and mostly based upon Revelations, the Boogeyman Story of the Bible.
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A concept of Hell seems to cross cultural divisions and continents. The Dhammapada is peppered with references to a Buddhist version of hell.

Maybe because the late neolithic Europeans and Sanskrit speakers of north India had a common ethnic origin on the steppes of southern Russia explains the convergences.
 
Cypress said:
A concept of Hell seems to cross cultural divisions and continents. The Dhammapada is peppered with references to a Buddhist version of hell.
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It makes sense that most human cultures can perceive the dichotomic nature of the Universe, usually perceived as good and bad.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Catholic theology describes Hell as the absence of God, not eternal fire and brimstone.

As for Heaven, I can't imagine how it would work.

Every single soul would have to have it's own individual heaven to be satisfied.

Even if we wanted other people with us, they would be illusions, our version of the person we want
rather than self-actualized versions.

Why would anybody even want that?
Isn't the perfect peace that comes with transitioning to non-exitance comforting enough?
That's all for which I hope.
Click to expand...

That's my recollection of the Eastern Orthodox tradition as well, hell is not a literal place.

Confucius famously is supposed to have have said we don't even understand life, how can we expect to understand death?
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Catholic theology describes Hell as the absence of God, not eternal fire and brimstone.

As for Heaven, I can't imagine how it would work.

Every single soul would have to have it's own individual heaven to be satisfied.

Even if we wanted other people with us, they would be illusions, our version of the person we want
rather than self-actualized versions.

Why would anybody even want that?
Isn't the perfect peace that comes with transitioning to non-exitance comforting enough?
That's all for which I hope.
Click to expand...

Nobody knows exactly how it will work but we know that God will take care of it and His promises will be kept.

We are children of God, not part of a human family so I believe that we probably won’t even remember or care about the relationships we had on Earth since this is just our very temporary form.
 
Cypress said:
Are Heaven and Hell actual places that people go when they die, or do they metaphorically describe states of the soul?
This debate played out in 1999 when Pope John Paul II described Heaven and Hell as being states of the soul rather than physical places. Heaven is the state of the soul in communion with God and in God’s presence; Hell is the state of being away from God, alienated and separated from one’s creator.
Some conservative Protestant theologians disagreed, arguing that they are actual places, and that if people did not believe that, they would lose the incentive to behave morally.

The Afterlife: Heaven
Exclusivists believe that only Christians can be saved. Pluralists see people of each religion as eligible to enter Heaven as believers in their own religion.

In a recent survey, 83 percent of Christians in mainline Protestant churches, 79 percent of Catholics, and 57 percent of Evangelical Protestants said “many religions can lead to eternal life.” This is a dramatic increase from the early 20th century, when fewer than 10 percent of Christians were pluralists.



Source credit: Mark Berkson, Hamline University
Click to expand...

I don't know if places is the right description, maybe realms is better?
 
Tinkerpeach said:
Nobody knows exactly how it will work but we know that God will take care of it and His promises will be kept.

We are children of God, not part of a human family so I believe that we probably won’t even remember or care about the relationships we had on Earth since this is just our very temporary form.
Click to expand...

Interesting, Tink.

I'd be curious about the scientific research that brought us to this conclusion. however.
 
Cypress said:
Are Heaven and Hell actual places that people go when they die, or do they metaphorically describe states of the soul?
This debate played out in 1999 when Pope John Paul II described Heaven and Hell as being states of the soul rather than physical places. Heaven is the state of the soul in communion with God and in God’s presence; Hell is the state of being away from God, alienated and separated from one’s creator.
Some conservative Protestant theologians disagreed, arguing that they are actual places, and that if people did not believe that, they would lose the incentive to behave morally.

The Afterlife: Heaven
Exclusivists believe that only Christians can be saved. Pluralists see people of each religion as eligible to enter Heaven as believers in their own religion.

In a recent survey, 83 percent of Christians in mainline Protestant churches, 79 percent of Catholics, and 57 percent of Evangelical Protestants said “many religions can lead to eternal life.” This is a dramatic increase from the early 20th century, when fewer than 10 percent of Christians were pluralists.



Source credit: Mark Berkson, Hamline University
Click to expand...

Heaven and Hell are for dumb people to believe in.
 
Tinkerpeach said:
Nobody knows exactly how it will work but we know that God will take care of it and His promises will be kept.

We are children of God, not part of a human family so I believe that we probably won’t even remember or care about the relationships we had on Earth since this is just our very temporary form.
Click to expand...

Fascists like you believe in God. Not a coincidence.
 
Cypress said:
I'm agnostic about it, but in principle I like the idea of the eternal damnation of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot.
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Agreed on agnosticism as the most logical position. If there is a difference in the afterlife between bliss and damnation, I think it's self-imposed. A choice.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Agreed on agnosticism as the most logical position. If there is a difference in the afterlife between bliss and damnation, I think it's self-imposed. A choice.
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An immortal soul, at least in the classic Platonic sense seems a bit far fetched.

We struggle to find the right language to describe meaning on life. I'm not sure we even have the right language to describe death.
 
Cypress said:
An immortal soul, at least in the classic Platonic sense seems a bit far fetched.

We struggle to find the right language to describe meaning on life. I'm not sure we even have the right language to describe death.
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure about that. What I do doubt is existence in the afterlife as an individual floating around with all the other individuals.

A more likely scenario, IMO, is rejoining the force behind the creation of the Universe, the great Overmind. Like individual raindrops rejoining the ocean.

Death is a transition from the mortal to the immortal. So, despite all the whining and bitching from Trumpers, in the end, we'll all become Trannies. :thup:
 
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