Hillary the Hawk

anatta

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In an era of endless military conflict, anti-war sentiment abides among Democrats. In 2004, their presidential nomination went to John Kerry, who was strongly critical of George W. Bush's handling of the war in Iraq. In 2008, they chose Barack Obama, largely because he had opposed that war. This year, 12 million people cast ballots for Bernie Sanders, who voted against it.

According to Gallup, 68 percent of Democrats think the Iraq War was a mistake -- compared with just 31 percent of Republicans. Two in three reject the use of ground combat troops against Islamic State.


Then there is Hillary Clinton, who will be this year's nominee. Few Democrats have more consistently favored the use of military force. She voted for the Iraq War. As secretary of state, she urged President Obama to escalate the war in Afghanistan.

New York Times correspondent Mark Landler, author of the new book "Alter Egos: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and the Twilight Struggle Over American Power," told me her aides have told him she favored shipping lethal defensive military equipment to the government of Ukraine after the Russian invasion, something Obama rejected.

She pushed for U.S. intervention in Libya. She proposed similar action in Syria. She has recounted her advice to her husband in dealing with Serbia in 1999: "I urged him to bomb."

Most Democrats, particularly Obama, have learned to be wary of entangling the United States in wars of choice. But not Clinton. Despite the disaster in Iraq, the failure in Afghanistan and the chaos in Libya, she remains a hawk at heart.

Landler, who covered Obama and Clinton for The New York Times, sees a clear difference between her approach to foreign policy and that of the president she served. Obama believes "the United States resorts too readily to military force to defend its interests," he writes.
Clinton thinks "that American intervention does more good than harm, and that the writ of the United States properly reaches, as George W. Bush once declared, into 'any dark corner of the world.'"
Robert Gates, who was defense secretary under Obama, likes and admires Clinton. But when she pressed Obama to bomb Moammar Gadhafi's forces -- which Landler says he probably would not have done otherwise -- Gates resisted, arguing that Libya was not a vital U.S. interest and that there was no telling what would happen next. "In meetings, I would ask, 'Can I just finish the two wars we're already in before you go looking for new ones?'" he wrote later.

Clinton has gotten endless criticism for her handling of the 2012 attacks on a U.S. facility in Benghazi. She deserves more, but has gotten far less, for recommending an intervention that led to that attack and left Libya in violent turmoil that continues today.

The question is why a child of the 1960s, whose husband strenuously avoided being drafted for the Vietnam War, would grow so fond of military power. Obama needs a compelling reason to use force. Clinton needs a compelling reason not to.
Landler attributes this bias to several factors, including her conservative Midwestern upbringing, her rapport with generals and, in the words of one staffer,
"a textbook view of American exceptionalism."
Other reasons come to mind. She saw Democratic senators politically damaged by voting against the 1991 war against Iraq, and she was not about to take the risk of opposing the next one. As a woman, she doubtless has felt the need to demonstrate that she can be as tough -- as that term is typically defined in American politics -- as any male leader.

Obama made the mistake of intervening in Libya, but in a recent interview with The Atlantic, he admitted, "It didn't work," and "Libya is a mess."
Clinton, however, has never expressed second thoughts. During his recent visit to Chicago, I asked Landler about her ability to confront the possibility she was wrong.

"I don't find the same evidence of a learning curve with herhe said. "I would have liked to see a little more introspection from her on that, because I think that's the key case where she led the charge, it didn't go the way they hoped it would and there are some really important lessons to be drawn."

In that instance, she apparently didn't learn from our failed military intervention. If she becomes president, I'm guessing, she'll get another chance
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/07/03/why_is_hillary_still_a_hawk_131085.html
 
she's an innate interventionist -she's a hawk she fails to learn from her mistakes. She still claims Libya was "smart power"
She still claims it was worth bring democracy(sic) to Libya

She pushed for U.S. intervention in Libya. She proposed similar action in Syria. She has recounted her advice to her husband in dealing with Serbia in 1999: "I urged him to bomb."
 
She is a hawk, what is trump??
did you notice the article has said what I've been saying for years? It's exactly what I've been saying
I don't find the same evidence of a learning curve with her .
Finally the world is getting hip about Libya too - no that the Bengazi nonsense is finally over.

You tell me what you think Trump is; I think we had this discussion?
 
did you notice the article has said what I've been saying for years? It's exactly what I've been saying Finally the world is getting hip about Libya too - no that the Bengazi nonsense is finally over.

You tell me what you think Trump is; I think we had this discussion?

As his name implies (no, not idiot in German) trump, a wild card.. He would be an eagle or potentially one..

He has no experience, no temperament & prone to rash, from the hip/gut decisions that could lead to war..

She is a known quantity, not a good one perhaps... I have never cared for her, nor do I now but IMHO he has the potential for far, far worse..
 
As his name implies (no, not idiot in German) trump, a wild card.. He would be an eagle or potentially one..

He has no experience, no temperament & prone to rash, from the hip/gut decisions that could lead to war..

She is a known quantity, not a good one perhaps... I have never cared for her, nor do I now but IMHO he has the potential for far, far worse..
he's def a wild card. But he leans toward more isolationalism.
Like we talked about POTUS is almost impossible to make a "rash" decision - there is too much institutional support.

Chief of staff, NSC,CIA,DNI, Joint Chiefs - the list goes on.
what gets me is Hilary is well institutionalized and still inevitably leans towards war/interventionism.

She is a known quality, and it's one of bellicosity.
 
I cannot vote for her.

I don't see how Christiefan can.

Hey!! I may be defending her from what I consider unwarranted attacks but that doesn't mean I'm voting for her. I supported Bernie until he was finished and now I'll probably go back to Jill Stein, like in 2012. I align with Jill's views first on all the political tests. Hillary usually came in a distant third.
 
he's def a wild card. But he leans toward more isolationalism.
Like we talked about POTUS is almost impossible to make a "rash" decision - there is too much institutional support.

Chief of staff, NSC,CIA,DNI, Joint Chiefs - the list goes on.
what gets me is Hilary is well institutionalized and still inevitably leans towards war/interventionism.

She is a known quality, and it's one of bellicosity.

I suspect there's a distinction between Trump the blowhard and Trump the actor. Actor, in the sense of what actions he would take. Whatever actions he would take wouldn't be ideologically motivated because he doesn't have one lol. In contrast, Hillary clings to militaristic democracy-spreading in spite of the mess it's made of things.

But the psychological profile of most blowhards is their bark is worse than their bite. I'm fairly confident he'd wind up as some species of isolationist.

And that can get you in trouble too. But I think the country can benefit from at least four years of it.
 
Don't let demalquedacrats fool you. They aren't anti war. They just want to be the ones doing the killing. They want to be the ones in power. Demalquedacrats are very pro war
 
he's def a wild card. But he leans toward more isolationalism.
Like we talked about POTUS is almost impossible to make a "rash" decision - there is too much institutional support.

Chief of staff, NSC,CIA,DNI, Joint Chiefs - the list goes on.
what gets me is Hilary is well institutionalized and still inevitably leans towards war/interventionism.

She is a known quality, and it's one of bellicosity.

Trump wants to bomb them into submission
 
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