Identity Crisis

[ohiodem]

Why does it seem like Republicans this fall are actively campaigning against their own ideas?

• President Obama’s healthcare bill is virtually the same bill that Republicans offered as an alternative to Hillary Clinton’s 1994 bill. Republicans are running against it.

• Cap and Trade was in the 1980’s a Republican idea to let the market solve our pollution problems. Conservatives that wanted to do away with the EPA were touting this as an answer to more environmental regulation. Republicans are now saying it will kill business.

• Republicans are acting as if it were President Obama who proposed and signed the TARP bailout of 2008 instead of Henry Paulson and George Bush.


Not to mention the time tested lines about how government is the enemy while trying to get a job with the government. I think it’s evidence that the Republican Party doesn’t know who it is anymore.

 

[cawacko]

You sure you're not from Michigan?

 

[Kamala Trump]

Why does it seem like Republicans this fall are actively campaigning against their own ideas?

• President Obama’s healthcare bill is virtually the same bill that Republicans offered as an alternative to Hillary Clinton’s 1994 bill. Republicans are running against it.

• Cap and Trade was in the 1980’s a Republican idea to let the market solve our pollution problems. Conservatives that wanted to do away with the EPA were touting this as an answer to more environmental regulation. Republicans are now saying it will kill business.

• Republicans are acting as if it were President Obama who proposed and signed the TARP bailout of 2008 instead of Henry Paulson and George Bush.


Not to mention the time tested lines about how government is the enemy while trying to get a job with the government. I think it’s evidence that the Republican Party doesn’t know who it is anymore.

Because when fascism starts actually occuring openly in big ways, the false dichotomy talking points of "government is the problem" versus "Business is the problem" starts to sound ridiculous and the speech makers start to sound ridiculous. Thesis, antithesis, leads to "third way" synthesis. And bingo we get the new world order.

 

[/MSG/]

You sure you're not from Michigan?

Well he does form complete sentences and presumably isn't slobbering all over the keyboard, so he might be from MI.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Why does it seem like Republicans this fall are actively campaigning against their own ideas?

• President Obama’s healthcare bill is virtually the same bill that Republicans offered as an alternative to Hillary Clinton’s 1994 bill. Republicans are running against it.

• Cap and Trade was in the 1980’s a Republican idea to let the market solve our pollution problems. Conservatives that wanted to do away with the EPA were touting this as an answer to more environmental regulation. Republicans are now saying it will kill business.

• Republicans are acting as if it were President Obama who proposed and signed the TARP bailout of 2008 instead of Henry Paulson and George Bush.


Not to mention the time tested lines about how government is the enemy while trying to get a job with the government. I think it’s evidence that the Republican Party doesn’t know who it is anymore.

They know exactly who they are OHDem. Look around you there in Wapak and the rest of Auglaize county. What are the three big issues with most of the working class folks there? Gays, Guns and Abortion. These are not ideological issues that the powers in the Republican party really believe in. The only one they do believe in is concentrating as much of our nations wealth into the hands of a few elite families. Don't believe me, look at how well they have done on killing gun control laws, banning gay marriage and outlawing abortion. What have they done there? Jack shit but they have been campaiging on them forever. What policies and issues have they been most successful at? Regressive tax cuts. You want to know what the Republicans really stand for? Then follow the money.

I can remember when I was a member of the young Republicans in Celina back in the early 80's when the vast majority of working class folk were union democrats. We had a party strategist come in and talk to us to give us advice on how to recruit the locals to the Republican party. He told us to tell them that democrats will open abortion clinics in every town, outlaw guns and let gays get married and be teachers. He said that if we showed them we cared about social issues that scared them then they would abandon their economic priorities and vote Republican. We laughed at him and said "That would never work, they couldn't be that dumb!". Well you know the area....he was right, wasn't he?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Well he does form complete sentences and presumably isn't slobbering all over the keyboard, so he might be from MI.

He probably went to the same elementary school as me. I was born in Wapak and lived there till I was 12.

 

[/MSG/]

They know exactly who they are OHDem. Look around you there in Wapak and the rest of Auglaize county. What are the three big issues with most of the working class folks there? Gays, Guns and Abortion. These are not ideological issues that the powers in the Republican party really believe in. The only one they do believe in is concentrating as much of our nations wealth into the hands of a few elite families. Don't believe me, look at how well they have done on killing gun control laws, banning gay marriage and outlawing abortion. What have they done there? Jack shit but they have been campaiging on them forever. What policies and issues have they been most successful at? Regressive tax cuts. You want to know what the Republicans really stand for? Then follow the money.

I can remember when I was a member of the young Republicans in Celina back in the early 80's when the vast majority of working class folk were union democrats. We had a party strategist come in and talk to us to give us advice on how to recruit the locals to the Republican party. He told us to tell them that democrats will open abortion clinics in every town, outlaw guns and let gays get married and be teachers. He said that if we showed them we cared about social issues that scared them then they would abandon their economic priorities and vote Republican. We laughed at him and said "That would never work, they couldn't be that dumb!". Well you know the area....he was right, wasn't he?

I could sit here and pick apart the pieces I'm interested in, but would rather just ask a simple question.

What's wrong with fighting gun control?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I could sit here and pick apart the pieces I'm interested in, but would rather just ask a simple question.

What's wrong with fighting gun control?

Nothing is wrong with fighting gun control......thats not my point......it's just a wedge issue. Republicans have used these issue for years with rural white working class people to great affect but with few accomplishements on these issues.

They use these issues as a political manipulation to get these people to vote in a pattern which undercuts their economic interest. To the point, their guns have not been taken away, abortion on demand is still legal and it's looking real good that gays will be able to openly serve in the military, teach school and get married. Republicans have been preaching this "guns, gays and abortion" rhetoric for over 30 years to working class whites, particularly in rural areas to great affect but precious few accomplishments to show for that but regressive tax cuts, on the other hand, they have been hugely succesful at. As I said. Follow the money and you will know what the political bosses of the Republican party really care about. Conversly the same can be said of Democrats.

 

[cawacko]

Nothing is wrong with fighting gun control......thats not my point......it's just a wedge issue. Republicans have used these issue for years with rural white working class people to great affect but with few accomplishements on these issues.

They use these issues as a political manipulation to get these people to vote in a pattern which undercuts their economic interest. To the point, their guns have not been taken away, abortion on demand is still legal and it's looking real good that gays will be able to openly serve in the military, teach school and get married. Republicans have been preaching this "guns, gays and abortion" rhetoric for over 30 years to working class whites, particularly in rural areas to great affect but precious few accomplishments to show for that but regressive tax cuts, on the other hand, they have been hugely succesful at. As I said. Follow the money and you will know what the political bosses of the Republican party really care about. Conversly the same can be said of Democrats.

In a campaign ad Barbara Boxer said Carly Fiorina would make abortion a crime. You say Republicans actually do nothing regarding abortion. So is Boxer just trying to scare her base into voting or using this as a wedge issue herself?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

In a campaign ad Barbara Boxer said Carly Fiorina would make abortion a crime. You say Republicans actually do nothing regarding abortion. So is Boxer just trying to scare her base into voting or using this as a wedge issue herself?

Yes.

 

[Minister of Truth]

Yes.

THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!!

 

[evince]

Why does it seem like Republicans this fall are actively campaigning against their own ideas?

• President Obama’s healthcare bill is virtually the same bill that Republicans offered as an alternative to Hillary Clinton’s 1994 bill. Republicans are running against it.

• Cap and Trade was in the 1980’s a Republican idea to let the market solve our pollution problems. Conservatives that wanted to do away with the EPA were touting this as an answer to more environmental regulation. Republicans are now saying it will kill business.

• Republicans are acting as if it were President Obama who proposed and signed the TARP bailout of 2008 instead of Henry Paulson and George Bush.


Not to mention the time tested lines about how government is the enemy while trying to get a job with the government. I think it’s evidence that the Republican Party doesn’t know who it is anymore.

Because they place party over country at every turn.

 

[Mister Wonderful]

THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID!!

BUT NOT TO YOU!!

 

[cawacko]

BUT NOT TO YOU!!

Who are you Paul Orndorff?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

He probably went to the same elementary school as me. I was born in Wapak and lived there till I was 12.

That does not say much for the education system in Wapak.

 

[Cancel7]

Yes.

Eh eh eh. You are dead wrong here.

Anyone who doesn't see that ROberts is an activist judge who will overturn Roe v Wade at his first opportunity, hasn't been paying attention. You bet he will.

He just needs the justices. You bet Fiorina is one more YES vote for that judge. YOu bet Boxer is one more NO vote against that judge.

You bet Fiorina will outlaw abortion, she is extremely bitter that she was unable to have children and hates women who end the pregnancies she couldn't have.

She has spoken openly about this.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

That does not say much for the education system in Wapak.

It was the same school Neil Armstrong went to.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Eh eh eh. You are dead wrong here.

Anyone who doesn't see that ROberts is an activist judge who will overturn Roe v Wade at his first opportunity, hasn't been paying attention. You bet he will.

He just needs the justices. You bet Fiorina is one more YES vote for that judge. YOu bet Boxer is one more NO vote against that judge.

You bet Fiorina will outlaw abortion, she is extremely bitter that she was unable to have children and hates women who end the pregnancies she couldn't have.

She has spoken openly about this.

Let me ask you this Darla. If Fiorina had to choose between one of these two, which do you think she would choose. #1. Outlawing Abortion in all circumstances or #2. A 50% tax cut for the top 0.1% of income earners. Which of those do you think she would support if she could only vote for one of those two?

 

[Cancel7]

In a campaign ad Barbara Boxer said Carly Fiorina would make abortion a crime. You say Republicans actually do nothing regarding abortion. So is Boxer just trying to scare her base into voting or using this as a wedge issue herself?

Yes

Eh eh eh. You are dead wrong here.

Anyone who doesn't see that ROberts is an activist judge who will overturn Roe v Wade at his first opportunity, hasn't been paying attention. You bet he will.

He just needs the justices. You bet Fiorina is one more YES vote for that judge. YOu bet Boxer is one more NO vote against that judge.

You bet Fiorina will outlaw abortion, she is extremely bitter that she was unable to have children and hates women who end the pregnancies she couldn't have.

She has spoken openly about this.

Let me ask you this Darla. If Fiorina had to choose between one of these two, which do you think she would choose. #1. Outlawing Abortion in all circumstances or #2. A 50% tax cut for the top 0.1% of income earners. Which of those do you think she would support if she could only vote for one of those two?

Ok, here is the conversation as it transpired.

Now, your original argument to Cawacko appears to be that Dems use abortion as a scare tactic because R's do nothing about it except lie to their base. I think that probably was true for a very long time, but you have to be asleep to not see that the W appointments changed that. Roberts is an activist judge. I don't think that can be in question? If you dispute Roberts being an activist judge, then say so, and we can start over from there. But I would doubt that anyone who is not a right wing moron watched Citizens United and didn't understand we are dealing with a right wing activist judiciary.

So if you accept that, then your argument would have to be that Roberts is an activist judge, but...he won't be that way when it comes to Roe V Wade. FOr which I 'd like to see your reasoning. I might find it interesting, but I won't find it persuasive since you know, the lives of women will be hanging on the balance of a hunch.

In none of this can I possibly see how the question of which Fiorina values more; tax cuts for her wealthy cronies and herself, or denying the women she hates for being able to get pregnant, the right to end their pregnancies, impacts this discussion.

Firstly, that is unanswerable for anyone other than Fiorina. We can only know that she has informed us in no uncertain terms that she values both.

Secondly, and more importantly - wtf difference could the answer possibly make? Is there going to be some magic new senate rule stating that right wingers only get to vote for one of their preferred policies?

In fact ,this is a huge herring and your post made little sense.

 

[Kamala Trump]

Just answer the question, and quit crying.