'If Conservatism is the Ideology of Freedom...

M

midcan5

Member
...Then I'm the Queen of England'

By David Michael Green

"I wish I had a nickel for every time a conservative told a lie in order to sell an ideology that would otherwise be hopelessly unappealing.

But, then, what the hell would I do with ten kazillion, trillion, dollars? I wouldn't know how to spend that much loot.

These lies are legend, and they're endlessly retold. Everything from the one about the liberal bias in the media, or the one about Ronald Reagan ending the Cold War, to the one about how the private sector is so much more efficient than the government. And how about Saddam's arsenal of WMD, eh? Or the tax cuts that weren't going to drive the federal government into deficit? Or remember when George Bush told us that the war in Iraq was over, before it had even really started? Or the bit about how global warming is just a great big conspiracy among those noted well-known cabalists, er ... climatology scientists?

I'm only just getting started here, but you get the point. If you're a conservative you basically have two choices * lie or lose. 'Cause if you tell the truth, no one in his or her right mind would buy the garbage you're peddling.

The list of lies is endless, but my personal favorite is the one about how conservatism is the ideology of freedom, and specifically freedom from an overweening, intrusive, liberty-stealing, nanny-state government.

Sometimes when I hear that howler, I have to pinch myself to make sure I'm not off in some virtual reality world (like 'Liberty' University, or the Republican national convention) somewhere. Because, clearly, between me and the well-programmed fool mouthing these hopeless inanities, one of us is, that's for sure.

But I'll tell you what, if conservatism is the ideology of freedom * then I'm the Queen of England. And, one thing you can be sure of is that I'm not the Queen of England. I don't even have the right parts and pieces, and the only crown I've ever worn was given to me forty years ago by some pimply-faced teenager working the cash register at Burger King. Somehow, I don't think that counts.

Meanwhile, here's what I'd like to know:

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who fought against the American Revolution?

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who are always trying to take that freedom away from us, especially women and minorities? Why did they fight against the effort to end slavery, or to give women and minorities the vote, or to protect them from discrimination? Why are they still supporting efforts to disenfranchise minorities?"

Rest here:

http://www.counterpunch.com/green11242007.html
 
Looks like you're quite alone in your madness Sonny....

Drink a pint of Drano and call us in the morning.
 
midcan5 said:
....
If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who fought against the American Revolution?...
Click to expand...
:palm:

Why not argue against the stated platform of the American Conservative movement instead of lying about our platform then arguing about the lie?

Principles of the American Conservative Party
Foundation:

From this Foundation, all principles flow:

* The individual is sovereign
o We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

* Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just limited powers from the consent of the governed
o "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity do ordain and establish the Constitution for the United States of America." What does this mean? Simply put, that the formation of a legitimate government can only occur when the citizens themselves choose to surrender a portion of their inherent authority. The citizens may chose to give, but the government cannot chose to take (or keep) authority against the wishes of its citizenry.
Click to expand...

http://www.theamericanconservatives...&id=49:platform&catid=34:background&Itemid=53
 
I thought a little birdy just told me that the private sector is not more efficient than the government...

...oh, shit, it was just Midcan. Go figure!
 
LOL - this is why rep points are kinda silly. One person gives me a positive and one a negative. Seems normal huh!

But notice no one can counter the gentleman's argument.
 
midcan5 said:
LOL - this is why rep points are kinda silly. One person gives me a positive and one a negative. Seems normal huh!

But notice no one can counter the gentleman's argument.
Click to expand...

The argument was countered in post 3, which you casually ignore, so you get a neg rep from post 5.
 
The one paragraph that I want someone to answer is "Why, if we believe so much in freedom, do we prop up brutal dictatorships that deny their own people freedom and even torture and kill them?" But it is not only the conservatives, every president since the cold war began has sent money and arms to the likes of Pinochet, Samoza, the Shah, Saddam etc. I was always led to believe that it was the Soviet Union that embrace the idea of the ends justifyiing the means.
 
We gave money to Saddam because he was fighting our enemies at the time: Iran and the Soviets. During WW2 we sided with Russia. Both were done for pragmatism.
 
Southern Man said:
We gave money to Saddam because he was fighting our enemies at the time: Iran and the Soviets. During WW2 we sided with Russia. Both were done for pragmatism.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Kurds were a real problem for us, it's a good thing Saddam took the poison gas we sold him and gassed those evil Kurds.
 
Southern Man said:
Our policy with Saddam changed considerably after he screwed us like that.
Click to expand...

I am reminded of the Parable of the Snake. Ever heard of it?

What the hell did our leaders THINK he'd do?

When we make alliances with snakes like Saddam because it might give us some tactical advantage, it destroys our credibility with the rest of the world.
 
Southern Man said:
The argument was countered in post 3, which you casually ignore, so you get a neg rep from post 5.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the negative rep, you fascists never change.

Saying something don't make it so. Are you twelve? If so, I understand, if not you need to counter the argument as you guys are not only the negative rep queens, but the deniers of many freedoms noted in article. Always have been, always will be. Just the other day you cons were arguing that wal-mart had a right to fire a medical marijuana smoker. But that is consistent with your fascist take on business power. Our newly fascist scotus just did the same.
 
Socrtease said:
The one paragraph that I want someone to answer is "Why, if we believe so much in freedom, do we prop up brutal dictatorships that deny their own people freedom and even torture and kill them?" But it is not only the conservatives, every president since the cold war began has sent money and arms to the likes of Pinochet, Samoza, the Shah, Saddam etc. I was always led to believe that it was the Soviet Union that embrace the idea of the ends justifyiing the means.
Click to expand...

Agreed. And consider our support of Israel as well. It is a cowboy mindset that will not change quickly if ever. There must always be bad guys and good guys and whether they are bad or good is not relevant.


"The savior who wants to turn men into angels is as much a hater of human nature as the totalitarian despot who wants to turn them into puppets." Eric Hoffer
 
midcan5 said:
...Then I'm the Queen of England'

By David Michael Green

"I wish I had a nickel for every time a conservative told a lie in order to sell an ideology that would otherwise be hopelessly unappealing.

But, then, what the hell would I do with ten kazillion, trillion, dollars? I wouldn't know how to spend that much loot.

These lies are legend, and they're endlessly retold. Everything from the one about the liberal bias in the media, or the one about Ronald Reagan ending the Cold War, to the one about how the private sector is so much more efficient than the government. And how about Saddam's arsenal of WMD, eh? Or the tax cuts that weren't going to drive the federal government into deficit? Or remember when George Bush told us that the war in Iraq was over, before it had even really started? Or the bit about how global warming is just a great big conspiracy among those noted well-known cabalists, er ... climatology scientists?

I'm only just getting started here, but you get the point. If you're a conservative you basically have two choices * lie or lose. 'Cause if you tell the truth, no one in his or her right mind would buy the garbage you're peddling.

The list of lies is endless, but my personal favorite is the one about how conservatism is the ideology of freedom, and specifically freedom from an overweening, intrusive, liberty-stealing, nanny-state government.

Sometimes when I hear that howler, I have to pinch myself to make sure I'm not off in some virtual reality world (like 'Liberty' University, or the Republican national convention) somewhere. Because, clearly, between me and the well-programmed fool mouthing these hopeless inanities, one of us is, that's for sure.

But I'll tell you what, if conservatism is the ideology of freedom * then I'm the Queen of England. And, one thing you can be sure of is that I'm not the Queen of England. I don't even have the right parts and pieces, and the only crown I've ever worn was given to me forty years ago by some pimply-faced teenager working the cash register at Burger King. Somehow, I don't think that counts.

Meanwhile, here's what I'd like to know:

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who fought against the American Revolution?

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who are always trying to take that freedom away from us, especially women and minorities? Why did they fight against the effort to end slavery, or to give women and minorities the vote, or to protect them from discrimination? Why are they still supporting efforts to disenfranchise minorities?"

Rest here:

http://www.counterpunch.com/green11242007.html
Click to expand...

I'm curious how an article like this got past an editor when it doesn't contain a single fact.......it contains one opinion and several paragraphs of diatribe.......seems right up midcan's alley......
 
midcan5 said:
Thanks for the negative rep, you fascists never change.

Saying something don't make it so. Are you twelve? If so, I understand, if not you need to counter the argument as you guys are not only the negative rep queens, but the deniers of many freedoms noted in article. Always have been, always will be. Just the other day you cons were arguing that wal-mart had a right to fire a medical marijuana smoker. But that is consistent with your fascist take on business power. Our newly fascist scotus just did the same.
Click to expand...

Here's some more for whining about it and for again not addressing the argument in post 3. :pke:
 
midcan5 said:
Thanks for the negative rep, you fascists never change.

Saying something don't make it so. Are you twelve? If so, I understand, if not you need to counter the argument as you guys are not only the negative rep queens, but the deniers of many freedoms noted in article. Always have been, always will be. Just the other day you cons were arguing that wal-mart had a right to fire a medical marijuana smoker. But that is consistent with your fascist take on business power. Our newly fascist scotus just did the same.
Click to expand...

That's how a Southern?Man? handles debate...by neg repping behind the scenes like a coward.
 
Southern Man said:
We didn't tell him to gas innocent people. :palm:
Click to expand...

The US Government sold a vicious Dictator deadly chemicals designed to KILL people...what did we THINK he was going to do with them??

You can roll out facepalm after facepalm, LOL after ROFLMAO, but it won't change the FACT that THE CONSERVATIVE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION sold that man the chemicals he used to kill hundreds of thousands, and they did so KNOWING what kind of a brutal dictator he was.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
The US Government sold a vicious Dictator deadly chemicals designed to KILL people...what did we THINK he was going to do with them??

You can roll out facepalm after facepalm, LOL after ROFLMAO, but it won't change the FACT that THE CONSERVATIVE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION sold that man the chemicals he used to kill hundreds of thousands, and they did so KNOWING what kind of a brutal dictator he was.
Click to expand...

Why are we giving Iran and North Korea materials to make nuclear weapons with? They say they want it for only nuclear energy but we know who they are and what they really want with it.
 
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