If the only way to escape a trap is to gnaw off my leg

anatta

100% recycled karma
Why Some of the Smartest Progressives I Know Will Vote for Trump over Hillary
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/wall-street-2016-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-213931

hy do progressives reject Hillary Clinton? The highly educated, high-income, finance-literate readers of my website, Naked Capitalism, don’t just overwhelmingly favor Bernie Sanders. They also say “Hell no!” to Hillary Clinton to the degree that many say they would even vote for Donald Trump over her.

And they don’t come by these views casually. Their conclusions are the result of careful study of her record and her policy proposals. They believe the country can no longer endure the status quo that Clinton represents—one of crushing inequality, and an economy that is literally killing off the less fortunate—and any change will be better. One reader writes:

“If Clinton is the nominee 9 out of 10 friends I polled will [do one of three things]:

A. Not vote for president in November.
B. Vote for Trump.
C. Write in Bernie as a protest vote.

"We are all fifty-somethings with money and college educations. Oh, and we are all registered Democrats.”
Or as another reader puts it:

“I don’t want to vote for Trump. I want to vote for Bernie. But I have reached the point where I feel like voting for Trump against Clinton would be doing my patriotic duty. … If the only way to escape a trap is to gnaw off my leg, I’d like to think I’d have the guts to do it.”

To be sure, not all of my Sanders-supporting readers would vote for Trump. But only a minority would ever vote for Clinton, and I'd guess that a lot of them would just stay home if she were the nominee. Many of my readers tend to be very progressive, and they have been driven even further in that direction by their sophisticated understanding of the inequities of Wall Street, especially in the run-up to and the aftermath of the financial crisis, when no senior executives went to jail, the biggest banks got bigger, and Hillary paid homage to Goldman Sachs. True progressives, as opposed to the Vichy Left, recognize that the Clintons only helped these inequities along. They recognize that, both in the 1990s and now, the Clintons do not and have never represented them. They believe the most powerful move they can take to foster change is to withhold their support.

Some of them also have very reasoned arguments for Trump. Hillary is a known evil. Trump is unknown. They'd rather bet on the unknown, since it will also send a big message to Team Dem that they can no longer abuse progressives. I personally know women in the demographic that is viewed as being solidly behind Hillary—older, professional women who live in major cities—who regard Trump as an acceptable cost of getting rid of the Clintons.

Who does Naked Capitalism represent? The site, which I describe as “fearless commentary on finance, economics, politics and power,” receives 1.3 million to 1.5 million page views a month and has amassed approximately 80 million readers since its launch in 2006. Its readership is disproportionately graduate school-educated, older, male and high income. Despite the overall predominance of male readers, many of the fiercest critics of Clinton in the commentariat are women, with handles like HotFlash, Katniss Everdeen, Martha r, Portia, Bev and Pat.

What they also object to is that the larger bloc of Sanders voters has been treated with abuse and contempt by the Clinton camp, despite the fact that their positions—such as strengthening Social Security and Medicare, stronger educational funding and higher minimum wages—have for decades polled by solid majorities or, at worst, ample pluralities in the electorate at large.

By contrast, the Democratic Party in the Clinton and Obama administrations has consistently embraced and implemented policies that strip workers of economic and legal rights to benefit investors and the elite professionals that serve them. Over time, the “neoliberal” economic order—which sees only good, never bad, in the relentless untrammeling of capital and the deregulation of markets—has created an unacceptable level of economic insecurity and distress for those outside the 1 percent and the elite professionals who serve them.

The result is that the U.S. economy is becoming lethal to the less fortunate, according to the New York Times, which reported this week that U.S. death rates have risen for the first time in a decade. The increase in death rates among less educated whites since 2001 is roughly the size of the AIDS epidemic.
Yet the Clinton campaign is in such denial about this that it has become vitriolic in its verbal and tactical attacks on Sanders and his supporters—rather than recognizing that the stunning success of his campaign is proof of their abject policy failures. The message is clear: The Clintons believe, as Bill himself put it, that the true progressives have nowhere to go.

But in fact, they’ve been leaving. The Clinton and Obama administrations presided over the worst losses in congressional and state races in modern history in 1994, 2010 and 2012. And voter preferences were clear. Under Obama, it was the Blue Dog, Third Way Democrats who were turfed out, while candidates with strong stances on economic justice kept their seats. Similarly, as political scientist Tom Ferguson pointed out in a Roosevelt Institute paper, Obama’s loss of a Senate majority when Republican Scott Brown won in Massachusetts was the result of his focus on bailing out banks rather than aiding distressed homeowners (or forcing mortgage services to give modifications to borrowers who still had adequate income, as banks had done historically). The level of votes for Brown was strongly correlated with the amount of foreclosures in those particular districts.

True progressives know that the Clinton and Obama presidencies have brought inequality to Gilded Era, banana-republic levels. They know that Obama’s policies, which the Clintons embrace, have had all of the post-crisis income gains accrue to the top 1 percent. In addition, corporate profits have risen to nearly double the ratio to GDP that Warren Buffett deemed unsustainably high in the early 2000s. Unlike China, they’ve also ushered in an era of high unemployment and underemployment, as reflected in unheard-of low levels of labor force participation and unemployment among the young in a nominal expansion.

The Clintons’ dismal record, which Hillary cannot run away from, speaks for itself. And this is what makes many progressives I know unable to support her, even if she wins the nomination. Consider the reasons why they feel this way:

Social Security. Bill Clinton made a deal with Newt Gingrich to privatize Social Security, but Monica Lewinsky derailed his plans. Sanders has promised to strengthen Social Security. By contrast, Clinton wants to “preserve” it, which includes means-testing. That would put Social Security on a path to being a welfare program, not a universal safety net, making it vulnerable in the long run. Bill Clinton’s ending of welfare is an illustration of the regular pattern, dating back to England’s Poor Law of 1834, of gutting safety nets for the poor.

Climate change. Sanders calls for a full-bore, Marshall-Plan level commitment to reducing carbon output. Hillary talks about climate change but pushed for fracking in Europe while secretary of state. The Clintons remain firmly committed to fracking, which ruins water supplies and releases large amounts of methane.

Minimum wage. Inflation-adjusted minimum wage increases under Clinton were negligible—virtually identical to those under George H.W. Bush. Obama promised a minimum wage increase to $9.50 an hour and failed to act in the first four years of his presidency. Sanders wants to raise minimum wages to $15 an hour, while Clinton stands pat with the administration plan to increase wages to $12 an hour by 2020.

Trade deals. Bill Clinton ushered in NAFTA, which was touted as positive for growth and employment, and is now widely acknowledged to have cost nearly a million jobs. Even one of its chief promoters, former Clinton Labor Secretary Robert Reich, now deems it to have been a failure for American workers. Hillary consistently backed the Trans-Pacific Partnership until Sanders made an issue of it, and she’s recently returned to supporting it. The potential growth and income gains from this agreement and its European sister, the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, are only marginally positive, while the loss of national sovereignty would be enormous. These agreements would enable foreign investors to challenge laws for labor, environmental and consumer protection, for threatening future profits.

Health care. Sanders wants single-payer, government-provided health care. Around the world, single payer has uncontestably demonstrated that it delivers better results overall at vastly lower cost. Obamacare took single payer off the table, instead rearranging the current costly, clumsy system while guaranteeing profits for health insurers and Big Pharma. Clinton at most has offered patches, but the pressure from Sanders has compelled her to suggest an early buy-in for Medicare.

That’s before we get to the Clintons’ loyalty to the Robert Rubin and neoliberal fetish of balanced budgets, which most economists say are not necessary. The recent European experience with austerity shows how disastrous that approach is, particularly in the wake of a financial crisis. Hillary’s hawkishness means an even greater commitment to military spending, so voters are assured to get more guns and less butter were she to become president.

The Sanders supporters I interact with also reject Hillary’s trickle-down feminism as a substitute for economic and social justice. Clinton is correct when she points out that there is a glass-ceiling issue for women. There are fewer female CEOs, billionaires and senators. Women in the elite don’t have it as good as men. But pray tell, what is having more women, or Hispanics or blacks, in top roles going to do for nurses and hospital orderlies, or the minority group members disproportionately represented in low-wage jobs like part-time fast food workers? Class mobility has become close to nonexistent in America. If you are born in one of the lower-income cohorts, you are almost certain to stay there.

As a woman who broke through an important glass ceiling on Wall Street—Christina Mohr, the first woman to become partner in mergers and acquisitions at Lazard—told a shocked group at Radcliffe seeking better career opportunities for women many years ago: “Nothing will change until women own the means of production.” And that sort of change comes from the bottom up.

Then there are questions of competence. Hillary has a résumé of glittering titles with disasters or at best thin accomplishments under each. Her vaunted co-presidency with Bill? After her first major project, health care reform, turned into such a debacle that it was impossible to broach the topic for a generation, she retreated into a more traditional first lady role. As New York senator, she accomplished less with a bigger name and from a more powerful state than Sanders did. As secretary of state, she participated and encouraged strategically pointless nation-breaking in Iraq and Syria. She bureaucratically outmaneuvered Obama, leading to U.S. intervention in Libya, which he has called the worst decision of his administration. And her plan to fob her domestic economic duties off on Bill comes off as an admission that she can’t handle being president on her own.

Mind you, these issues are all topics in the current debates. But what is as important, but not as obvious, is the way that most citizens have been stripped of legal and economic protections. As economist Michael Hudson put it, “Most inequality does not reflect differing levels of productivity, but distortions resulting from property rights or other special privileges." The Clinton era brought in weaker anti-trust enforcement, which allowed companies to accumulate more market share and with it, more ability to extract rents. Binding arbitration, which strips employees and consumers of their right to a day in court, has become widespread. Pensions, which used to be sacrosanct (and still are if you are a CEO), are regularly renegotiated. Banks got away with predatory servicing and wrongful foreclosures. Not only was the 2012 National Mortgage Settlement a “get out of liability almost free” card so large that it was tantamount to a second bailout, but banks were not required to fix their faulty servicing platforms, assuring that they’d revert to foreclosure abuses again when delinquencies rise. And let us not forget that senior bankers are a protected class, exempt from prosecution.

Finally, there is the stench of corruption, dating back to Hillary’s impossible—by any legitimate means—trick of parlaying $1,000 into $100,000 in a series of commodities trades in 1978. The Clintons and their backers seriously expect the rubes to believe that large financial firms happily forked over their hefty speaking fees purely out of interest in what they had to say, or that Middle Eastern and Taiwanese moneybags gave big bucks to the Clinton Foundation while Hillary was
secretary of state out of their deep belief in the foundation’s lofty goals. Why has Hillary refused to release the transcripts of her Goldman speeches, wiped her server and foot-dragged on releasing allegedly personal emails?

The Sanders voters in Naked Capitalism’s active commentariat also explicitly reject lesser-evilism, the cudgel that has previously kept true lefties somewhat in line. They are willing to gamble, given that outsider presidents like Jimmy Carter and celebrity governors like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jesse Ventura didn’t get much done, that a Trump presidency represents an acceptable cost of inflicting punishment on the Democratic Party for 20 years of selling out ordinary Americans.

The Clintons, like the Bourbons before the French Revolution, have ensconced themselves in such a bubble of operative and media sycophancy that they’ve mistakenly viewed escalating distress and legitimate demands from citizens as mere noise. Sanders voters are taking their cue from Talleyrand, the statesman who navigated the Revolution and the turbulent 50 years that followed with remarkable success: “I have never abandoned a party before it abandoned itself.”

If my readers are representative, Clinton and the Democratic Party are about to have a long-overdue day of reckoning.
 
My hard core republican relatives, my sister, brother and Brother in law will not be voting for Trump. They are not going to vote for HRC, but they have vowed to stay home or find a third option.

If they are representative of a group of Republicans, I think HRC will win.
 
My hard core republican relatives, my sister, brother and Brother in law will not be voting for Trump. They are not going to vote for HRC, but they have vowed to stay home or find a third option. If they are representative of a group of Republicans, I think HRC will win.

These anecdotal tales of yours are fabulous, Counselor.

You don't expect they will be believed, do you?
 
I Don't really care if they are believed. I acknowledge they are anecdotal, but my point is, as I said, that IF they are representative of a group of Republicans, I think HRC will win.
 
I Don't really care if they are believed. I acknowledge they are anecdotal, but my point is, as I said, that IF they are representative of a group of Republicans, I think HRC will win.

You've been in the tank for the Hildebeast all along.

Do you think there's anyone on JPP who doesn't know that by now?
 
I Don't really care if they are believed. I acknowledge they are anecdotal, but my point is, as I said, that IF they are representative of a group of Republicans, I think HRC will win.
I'm sure they are representative to some republicans. Just like a lot of Bernie supporters aren't going for Hillary.
It's a real turnoff for most, myself included. which is the "worser evil"?
 
I'm sure they are representative to some republicans. Just like a lot of Bernie supporters aren't going for Hillary.
It's a real turnoff for most, myself included. which is the "worser evil"?

I don't think HRC is evil, I don't really know why so many do, except they assume that the Republican smoke kicked up around her must mean there is a fire.

The only significant thing I know of that she has done wrong is to have had a private email account, just like Colin Powel and Condaliza Rice. It was a mistake, and she apologized. The remainder of the "scandals" are a lot of smoke without fire.
 
I don't think HRC is evil, I don't really know why so many do, except they assume that the Republican smoke kicked up around her must mean there is a fire. The only significant thing I know of that she has done wrong is to have had a private email account, just like Colin Powel and Condaliza Rice. It was a mistake, and she apologized. The remainder of the "scandals" are a lot of smoke without fire.

She is incompetent and dishonest to an alarming degree.

I have concluded that she is unworthy of the presidency based on the merits of her past performance.

Her personality and right-wing characterizations did not influence my decision.
 
She is incompetent and dishonest to an alarming degree.

I have concluded that she is unworthy of the presidency based on the merits of her past performance.

Her personality and right-wing characterizations did not influence my decision.

Nice talking points, but give me an example of her alleged dishonesty?
 
I don't think HRC is evil, I don't really know why so many do, except they assume that the Republican smoke kicked up around her must mean there is a fire.

The only significant thing I know of that she has done wrong is to have had a private email account, just like Colin Powel and Condaliza Rice. It was a mistake, and she apologized. The remainder of the "scandals" are a lot of smoke without fire.
https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRC_Email_1_296/HRCH1/DOC_0C05739752/C05739752.pdf
^She created a terrorist state in Libya.

The emails are completely different then Powell -she relied on a private server, and it was attacked. she also lied about it being "allowed"
her story has fallen apart -please read the state IG report.

What was her accomplishments as sec of State?
 
https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRC_Email_1_296/HRCH1/DOC_0C05739752/C05739752.pdf
^She created a terrorist state in Libya.

The emails are completely different then Powell -she relied on a private server, and it was attacked. she also lied about it being "allowed"
her story has fallen apart -please read the state IG report.

What was her accomplishments as sec of State?

As my famous law school professor used to say... the fact that she had a private server is a "distinction without a difference." Explain to me why having a private server makes this case worse than using a very public server?

There is absolutely NO evidence that the server was attacked, that is simply more innuendo. Even if it were or were not attacked, that is once again another distinction without a difference.

Please provide me with the quote in which she "lied" about the private email being allowed? I have not seen that, maybe you are correct... but I suspect once again that is simply talking points.
 
People who were not going to vote for Clinton will use this talking point about a server as the excuse. No one is being swayed by the status of an E-mail server in this election. No one really cares.
 
As my famous law school professor used to say... the fact that she had a private server is a "distinction without a difference." Explain to me why having a private server makes this case worse than using a very public server?

There is absolutely NO evidence that the server was attacked, that is simply more innuendo. Even if it were or were not attacked, that is once again another distinction without a difference.

Please provide me with the quote in which she "lied" about the private email being allowed? I have not seen that, maybe you are correct... but I suspect once again that is simply talking points.
the private server means she then took the responsibility for it's security. Have you red the IG report? it says the server was attacked 2x in 1 day and Pagliano was forced to "pull the plug"

The real reason though was to shield herself from FOIA requests ( she never stopped running for POTUS) that might be politically damaging.
That goes against open government - just like she didn't turn over her emails until the FOIA requests turned up their existence
then she decided todestroy the "private" emails.. how do we know what was destroyed?

She has consistently used the excuse the private server setup was "allowed" (her words)

It was allowed," referring to her email practices.

— Hillary Clinton on Thursday, May 26th, 2016 in an interview on ABC

the State Department’s policy as of 2005 (Clinton joined in 2009) is that all day-to-day operations are to be conducted on the official State Department information channel. Clinton never once used this State Department email system.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...hecking-hillary-clintons-claim-her-email-pra/

^ summary of her claims and IG realities
 
the private server means she then took the responsibility for it's security. Have you red the IG report? it says the server was attacked 2x in 1 day and Pagliano was forced to "pull the plug"

The real reason though was to shield herself from FOIA requests ( she never stopped running for POTUS) that might be politically damaging.
That goes against open government - just like she didn't turn over her emails until the FOIA requests turned up their existence
then she decided todestroy the "private" emails.. how do we know what was destroyed?

She has consistently used the excuse the private server setup was "allowed" (her words)



the State Department’s policy as of 2005 (Clinton joined in 2009) is that all day-to-day operations are to be conducted on the official State Department information channel. Clinton never once used this State Department email system.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...hecking-hillary-clintons-claim-her-email-pra/

^ summary of her claims and IG realities


"It was allowed" is the only quote you got?

Seriously... What is the "It" in that quote, it smells of selective editing and taking something out of context...

You are desperate to maintain your talking point arent you?
 
People who were not going to vote for Clinton will use this talking point about a server as the excuse. No one is being swayed by the status of an E-mail server in this election. No one really cares.

I imagine that you are correct, Brother Leon.
 
Nice talking points, but give me an example of her alleged dishonesty?

Are you pretending that you don't know about her litany of lies and pattern of unethical behavior, Counselor?

Get back to me when you've done your due diligence.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/

I note that you don't even attempt to pretend she has accomplished anything positive while in elected office. That's wise.
 
"It was allowed" is the only quote you got?

Seriously... What is the "It" in that quote, it smells of selective editing and taking something out of context...

You are desperate to maintain your talking point arent you?
good lord. I gave you the link..here's another..
Dickerson, May 8: A general election voter will know, when Hillary Clinton is the president in the office, and a convenient option arrives, maybe she will think twice about it?

Clinton: Well, as I have said many times, there was — I was absolutely permitted, and I did it. And it turned out to be a mistake. It wasn’t the best choice.

how about her lie 1 device was "convenient"? you should read this -this was prior to the IG report

Clinton Still Spinning Emails

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/05/clinton-still-spinning-emails/
 
Nice talking points, but give me an example of her alleged dishonesty?

She told the families of the fallen at Benghazi the attack was caused by a video she knew was a fucking lie long before the bodies even came home. She claims she did nothing wrong with her e-mail server, but the Inspector General of the State Department says she was briefed at length on the official security systems she had to adhere to and she even signed her name to a document saying she understood the security regulations. She claimed that she never armed Libyan rebels, and it's well known she did and they turned out to be ISIS. She ignored repeated request from the American Ambassador in Libya for more security and he and 2 other Americans lost their lives because of it.

The power hungry bitch is both incompetent and a fucking class "A" liar.
 
Back
Top