is freedom dead?

Is freedom dead in the USA now?

  • Yes, there's no getting away from the police state anymore

    Votes: 4 40.0%

  • No, we can still fight back IF people aren't too cowardly

    Votes: 6 60.0%
  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .
S

SmarterthanYou

rebel
the media hasn't been too loud about part of the new NDAA awaiting signature, but it massively expands part of the TSA/DHS program called VIPR, or "Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response", where the TSA recently tested this in Tennessee. It consists of random checkpoints across the state where they dog sniff vehicles and americans for prevention of terrorism. Apparently the response was obedience, since i'd heard of no stories of anyone being arrested, imprisoned, or killed for defiance.

So, should we pack the American Experiment up and call it dead already?
 
Freedom cannot 'die'. It can be suppressed, but in the end it'll always come back. The pertinent question, is will it come back in our life time, and will it be peaceful.
 
Dumberthanmany your chances of actually being a constitutional expert are dead unless you go to college then law school. We all know legion has a better chance at getting a girlfriend than that happening.
 
The Dude said:
Dumberthanmany your chances of actually being a constitutional expert are dead unless you go to college then law school. We all know legion has a better chance at getting a girlfriend than that happening.
Click to expand...

Actually, nothing has worse odds than that, so you might wish to rethink your random insults...
 
Is freedom dead?

The question implies that freedom was at one time alive. When exactly was that time? Was freedom alive in 1776? It was for some, but not for others. How free were the soldiers in Washington's army? How free were the slaves? How free were women?

Trivially, freedom is a relative thing. It has never existed equally for all people. In any society, some people are (by virtue of their wealth or title or lifestyle) more free than others. Is one person's freedom dead while another person's freedom lives?

In Man's Search for Meaning Viktor Frankl argues persuasively (from the standpoint of a concentration camp survivor) that the ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose how you perceive your circumstances. This ability is the truest human freedom, and can never be taken away.

But Orwell argues more persuasively (in 1984) that even this most inner freedom can be tortured out of a human mind. Is our perception that we possess some measure of freedom itself an illusion? If your freedom can be taken capriciously by the state, were you ever free to begin with?
 
The Dude said:
Dumberthanmany your chances of actually being a constitutional expert are dead unless you go to college then law school. We all know legion has a better chance at getting a girlfriend than that happening.
Click to expand...
i'm already a constitutional expert. wtf are you babbling about?
 
sedan said:
Is freedom dead?

The question implies that freedom was at one time alive. When exactly was that time? Was freedom alive in 1776? It was for some, but not for others. How free were the soldiers in Washington's army? How free were the slaves? How free were women?

Trivially, freedom is a relative thing. It has never existed equally for all people. In any society, some people are (by virtue of their wealth or title or lifestyle) more free than others. Is one person's freedom dead while another person's freedom lives?

In Man's Search for Meaning Viktor Frankl argues persuasively (from the standpoint of a concentration camp survivor) that the ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose how you perceive your circumstances. This ability is the truest human freedom, and can never be taken away.

But Orwell argues more persuasively (in 1984) that even this most inner freedom can be tortured out of a human mind. Is our perception that we possess some measure of freedom itself an illusion? If your freedom can be taken capriciously by the state, were you ever free to begin with?
Click to expand...

Okay, how free were the soldiers in Washington's army?
 
Emperor Trajan said:
Okay, how free were the soldiers in Washington's army?
Click to expand...
At the very least, not free to desert.

The point I was trying to illustrate is that no one has ever been completely free. I think the choices offered in the poll presuppose a time when we were supposedly more free than we are today. I'm not so sure that such a time ever existed if you take into account that entire groups of people were not altogether free in our not-too-distant-past.
 
sedan said:
Is freedom dead?

The question implies that freedom was at one time alive. When exactly was that time? Was freedom alive in 1776? It was for some, but not for others. How free were the soldiers in Washington's army? How free were the slaves? How free were women?

Trivially, freedom is a relative thing. It has never existed equally for all people. In any society, some people are (by virtue of their wealth or title or lifestyle) more free than others. Is one person's freedom dead while another person's freedom lives?

In Man's Search for Meaning Viktor Frankl argues persuasively (from the standpoint of a concentration camp survivor) that the ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose how you perceive your circumstances. This ability is the truest human freedom, and can never be taken away.

But Orwell argues more persuasively (in 1984) that even this most inner freedom can be tortured out of a human mind. Is our perception that we possess some measure of freedom itself an illusion? If your freedom can be taken capriciously by the state, were you ever free to begin with?
Click to expand...

The early American republic, after the rule of the Federalists, was one of the least free times in American history. Freedom was at it's peak in the 50's and 60's until the neo-liberals got back in power and destroyed America, reducing it to the corpse it is today.
 
Emperor Lusgelnio said:
The early American republic, after the rule of the Federalists, was one of the least free times in American history. Freedom was at it's peak in the 50's and 60's until the neo-liberals got back in power and destroyed America, reducing it to the corpse it is today.
Click to expand...
I'm inclined to agree, except that I can't see maximum freedom as being contemporaneous with Jim Crow. Maybe the 70's.
 
it all depends on an individual's idea of what freedom is.

Freedom to some may be the ability to breathe clean air and know that your children will breathe the same unpolluted air. While to the Koch brothers freedom may mean the ability to buy politicians and reduce clean air laws and standards.

Freedom may mean the ability to have a job and support a family and live above poverty, while to another it may mean the right to deregulate the banking industry so no one lives above poverty except the people who make huge profits from the labor of working class.

Freedom for say Fox 'News' means the right to lie and misinform while to others it may mean the right to hear the truth.

Freedom is very subjective.
 
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