Is The Democrat's Agenda Working Out, Or Is It The Democrat's Death Nail?

Robo

Verified User
Reelect your federal Democrat Representatives. The true agenda of the Democrat’s Obama-Care package is becoming evident. Were they smart enough to know Obama-Care was going to be the train wreck that it is? If they were, their next step is to fix it with a “ONE PAYER SYSTEM” i. e. ”AMERICAN SOCIALIZED MEDICINE.” Of course the Democrats are counting on retaking the House in the mid-term elections and keeping the Senate and thereby totally socializing America’s healthcare system. Or, or have the Democrats driven the death nail into their own agenda with the Obama-Care insanity?



 
Public option....like it should have had in the first place. As far as Democratic Blowback? Possibly.

However, I would say the GOP vote on Toomey Manchin is just as damaging to them....people are pissed about it
 
It should have been single payor to begin with.

It never would have gotten a sniff of passage. You have to be reasonable. A public option would have allowed the majority of the people to keep their coverage while providing for those that have none. However, it would have had to be tied to open competition on pharmaceuticals and Med/Tech equipment.
 
It’s what we get and what we deserve when the Constitution is ignored by government and the courts. Obama-Care was never, ever constitutional just like all federal social programs are unconstitutional and why they’re all either in the red or headed for financial catastrophe.

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution nor prohibited by it to the States are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people” (Amendment 10, United States Constitution)
 
It’s what we get and what we deserve when the Constitution is ignored by government and the courts. Obama-Care was never, ever constitutional just like all federal social programs are unconstitutional and why they’re all either in the red or headed for financial catastrophe.

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution nor prohibited by it to the States are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people” (Amendment 10, United States Constitution)

Neither is Citizen's United.
 
Reelect your federal Democrat Representatives. The true agenda of the Democrat’s Obama-Care package is becoming evident. Were they smart enough to know Obama-Care was going to be the train wreck that it is? If they were, their next step is to fix it with a “ONE PAYER SYSTEM” i. e. ”AMERICAN SOCIALIZED MEDICINE.” Of course the Democrats are counting on retaking the House in the mid-term elections and keeping the Senate and thereby totally socializing America’s healthcare system. Or, or have the Democrats driven the death nail into their own agenda with the Obama-Care insanity?



LOL I love hearing this ignorant and uninformed shit. I bet you couldn't even discuss the Affordable Care Act with out using Fox News and other tabloid talking points.

Dude, if you even knew what you're talking about you'd know that the AFA hasn't even been fully implemented yet and the parts that have been implemented are quite popular and supported widely by the public. Get a clue and at least make an attempt to be informed when you discuss this subject.
 
It should have been single payor to begin with.
It shoud have been but we had assholes like Leiberman who was supposed to be a Democrat who threatened to sabotage the whole deal if there was a public option. A public option is inevetable though. To modernize our health care system and to catch up with the rest of the industrialized world one of two choices will have to be made. We will have to either have a single payer system or we will have to require that all private health insurance companies operate as non-profits. Either way you'll need a public option to make those work.

As for your "death nail".....gee....maybe you haven't noticed but Dems now control the executive branch, the judicial branches of government, the Senate and we're it not for gerrymandering would have control of the house too.......Some death nail. You must not be very good with numbers.
 
Reelect your federal Democrat Representatives. The true agenda of the Democrat’s Obama-Care package is becoming evident. Were they smart enough to know Obama-Care was going to be the train wreck that it is? If they were, their next step is to fix it with a “ONE PAYER SYSTEM” i. e. ”AMERICAN SOCIALIZED MEDICINE.” Of course the Democrats are counting on retaking the House in the mid-term elections and keeping the Senate and thereby totally socializing America’s healthcare system. Or, or have the Democrats driven the death nail into their own agenda with the Obama-Care insanity?

I fear that Boehnercare is here to stay.

We should stop calling it Obamacare.
 
We're already seeing "mixed results" in regard to Obamacare, and as time passes more of its effects - both positive and negative - will be personally felt by voters.

The American people recognize the bleeding obvious: that while we enjoy the most cutting edge healthcare, it is way too expensive (and unnecessarily so), and is bankrupting families; the federal, state and local governments; making existing employers less competitive; and scaring people away from being independent entrepreneurs. The high cost of healthcare is the prime driver of government, business and personal debt, and the biggest drag on the American economy and job creation.

So will ObamCare, generally seen as a mediocre-to-poor attempt to fix the problem, ultimately hurt the Dems? Not if the Republican offer no alternative but hysterical shrieks of "communism!" "death panels!" "the end of the Republic!" There are in fact much better solutions to healthcare costs available where government would have a much lighter touch than ObamaCare, but Republican lawmakers' patrons in the industry and Tea Party constituents would punish them in the short term if they were to propose them.
 
It’s what we get and what we deserve when the Constitution is ignored by government and the courts. Obama-Care was never, ever constitutional just like all federal social programs are unconstitutional and why they’re all either in the red or headed for financial catastrophe.

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution nor prohibited by it to the States are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people” (Amendment 10, United States Constitution)

Where would the US be today without these federal programs, just for starters: payments for homesteading in the 1800s; GI Bill; savings & loan insurance and oversight (FDIC); federal interstate highway system, roads and bridges; subsidies of rail systems, electricity and water treatment and delivery grids; NASA and the space race; regulation of educational curricula (if not necessarily the Dept of Education), Social Security...? We would not be a modern nation without them, let alone a superpower.

And on each of these programs challenges went to the US Supreme Court where they were determined to be fully "Constitutional." The Founding Fathers didn't create that great document so that we could live forever as 18th Century farmers and homesteaders. The government was meant - and did during the time of our Founding Fathers - to grow with the nation and be a government which fit the needs of the people while preserving and expanding liberty.

We could go on for days with how the above programs are broken, often worse than useless, expensive, inefficient, outdated, etc., etc. That's bureaucracy for you. But the idea that "less government = more liberty" is not true theoretically and most certainly in reality.
 
Jumping in late here, but I think you're mixing your metaphors with the "death nail" thing. I've heard of "death knell" and "nail in the coffin" but not "death nail."

Hope this helps.
 
Neither is Citizen's United.

“Congress shall make no law …..abridging the freedom of speech…..(Amendment One, United States Constitution)

Money is “speech” when used to promote or oppose a political candidate or government legislation.
 
LOL I love hearing this ignorant and uninformed shit. I bet you couldn't even discuss the Affordable Care Act with out using Fox News and other tabloid talking points.

“Affordable Care Act?” Now that’s funny I don’t care who ya are! The ACA is proving out to be the “UN”-Affordable Care Act, huh?

“Fox News?” When did Baucus (Democrat MT) become a Fox News contributor?

Dude, if you even knew what you're talking about you'd know that the AFA hasn't even been fully implemented yet and the parts that have been implemented are quite popular and supported widely by the public. Get a clue and at least make an attempt to be informed when you discuss this subject.

Hey Dude, the parts already implemented i. e. like extending parents HC insurance for adult children and coverage for pre-existing conditions has raised healthcare cost for every American and could have been predicted by Larry, Mo & Curly. Government mandated care always cost more Goober.

The parts to be implemented are now causing small business to cut back working hours on employees to 29 hours so they can be claimed as part time workers and not employer responsibility under the “Un”-Affordable Obama Act. More than half the States are refusing to take the responsibility to set up the “UN”-Affordable Obama Act’s exchanges that Obama and the Democrats want to leave the States holding the financial bag for in the near future. Now even Congressional Democrats are admitting that nobody, but nobody can even understand the fucking mountain of legislation and its thousands of pages. Now even some Congressional Democrats are calling Obama-Care a fucking “train wreck.” Even The GAO is now saying that Obama-Care is going to be much more expensive than originally calculated, Who would have thunk it????? How about Larry, Mo & Curly?

“If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait till it’s free”
 
Where would the US be today without these federal programs, just for starters: payments for homesteading in the 1800s; GI Bill; savings & loan insurance and oversight (FDIC); federal interstate highway system, roads and bridges; subsidies of rail systems, electricity and water treatment and delivery grids; NASA and the space race; regulation of educational curricula (if not necessarily the Dept of Education), Social Security...? We would not be a modern nation without them, let alone a superpower.

Horseshit!!!!

In the first place our Constitution has an ”Amendment Process” that could have allowed for some of what you present and thereby allowing the States & The People their constitutional say by that process. For other programs you present, the States could have set up them creating a 50 States laboratory of experiments whereby only the best and brightest programs would succeed and remain in effect thereby allowing “the People” to decide for themselves what State they would choose to live in relative to economic conditions and social programs in effect, what Reagan called “voting with their feet.” Americans and America would know what worked and what didn’t work and what the cost was and act accordingly and the fucking federal government would be restricted to the confines of the Constitution as the founders intended providing mail delivery, a national defense, protections against State’s unfair commerce interactions and guaranteeing human and individual rights and only the other things authorized by the Constitutional Articles & Amendments.

And on each of these programs challenges went to the US Supreme Court where they were determined to be fully "Constitutional." The Founding Fathers didn't create that great document so that we could live forever as 18th Century farmers and homesteaders. The government was meant - and did during the time of our Founding Fathers - to grow with the nation and be a government which fit the needs of the people while preserving and expanding liberty.

The Supreme Court is made up of fucking political ideologues appointed by politically ideological politicians and confirmed by same. It’s no curiosity that the Courts have violated their oath of office and the Constitution so many times it should make our heads spin. It’s the most profound defect in our founders otherwise brilliant system. Its arrangement is based in the assumption that Court appointees would always be honest people of integrity affixed to only honoring the Constitution and their sworn duty therewith. Good luck with that!!!!!

We could go on for days with how the above programs are broken, often worse than useless, expensive, inefficient, outdated, etc., etc. That's bureaucracy for you. But the idea that "less government = more liberty" is not true theoretically and most certainly in reality.

“Government is not reason it is not eloquence, its force like fire a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible actions.” (George Washington)

Government is FORCE. Force is most readily susceptible to growth & corruption. The greater the growth, the greater the corruption! Even your average idiot should be able to understand that truism. The proof of it is in the pudding. Simply open your eyes and behold the world’s governments including your own.
 
Jumping in late here, but I think you're mixing your metaphors with the "death nail" thing. I've heard of "death knell" and "nail in the coffin" but not "death nail."

Hope this helps.

But surely you’ll admit that “death nail” is so perfectly fitting with Obama-Care? It may well be the nail in the Democrat’s coffen.
 
Where would the US be today without these federal programs, just for starters: payments for homesteading in the 1800s;

Payments for homesteading to who, for what and why can’t such authority be made constitutional by amendment to the Constitution?


“The Congress shall have the power….to raise and support armies….” (Article One Section Eight, United States Constitution)

savings & loan insurance and oversight

Why shouldn’t banks provide their own insurance and oversight without the federal government or the Constitution be amended to authorize the Congress to insure and oversee banks? Why shouldn’t the States and the people have their say by ratification in such actions?

federal interstate highway system, roads and bridges;

“The Congress shall have the power to…. establish post roads…..{Article One Section Eight, United States Constitution)

subsidies of rail systems, electricity and water treatment and delivery grids;

Why shouldn’t private industry subsidize their privately owned and operated rail systems? Why shouldn’t the States subsidize their own water treatment and delivery grids? Why should New York tax payers be forced to subsidize actions of other States and vise-versa? Why shouldn’t the Constitution be amended to authorize such actions for the federal government if the States and the people believe it to be advantageous and proper?

NASA and the space race;

Why shouldn’t the Constitution have been amended to authorize the federal government to provide for NASA and a Space Race if the States and the people thereof thought it would be advantageous and proper for the feds to do so? Why can’t private industry explore space on their own dime if it’s so advantageous? Oh! That’s right they are, huh?

regulation of educational curricula (if not necessarily the Dept of Education),

Why do we need a “Department Of Education?” Why can’t the States and the people thereof decide for themselves what their education system should be and what the curricula thereof shall be?

Social Security...?

Why shouldn’t the States have the authority to establish their own social programs if they want including a State retirement and disability fund if they so choose or not choose?

We would not be a modern nation without them, let alone a superpower.

Horseshit!!! We wouldn’t be 17 trillion $ in debt and rising like a rocket, the world’s police force and patsy, fighting endless undeclared, unconstitutional wars with a bloated Military Industrial Complex and socialism bankrupting the nation if the fucking federal government were forced by the people to honor, obey, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution as they are sworn to do. We are the world’s “Super Idiots!”
 
"Horseshit!!!!

In the first place our Constitution has an ”Amendment Process” ..."

We don't need an amendment to the Constitution so that the federal government can do more than field an army and deliver mail.

Americans have been debating the size and scope of the federal government since our founding, as we should continually. But thank God we don't have this idea that everything must be left to the states alone, or to the marketplace. We'd be a Third World country today if we adhered so closely to reading of those principles established in the mid-1700s, principles which were fiercely debated by our Founding Fathers. We have tested and debated and ran these notions through the US Supreme Court countless times. We even fought a Civil War to secure the notion that the federal government can regulate commerce inside the states.

Again, we could on forever agreeing bloated the federal government has become, and how counter-productive so many programs and Departments are. But you are confusing the guiding principle that what the states can do should be left to the states, with the idea that there is virtually nothing that the federal government can or should do.

Surely you're not suggesting that states themselves could have set up a national interstate highway system, provided the GI Bill, created a space program, or done the work of NIH researchers "Horseshit!" for sure.
 
Death Nail!!! LOL!

Death nail” is a result of confusing two expressions with similar meanings.

The first is “death knell.” When a large bell (like a church bell) rings—or tolls—it knells. When a bell is rung slowly to mark the death of someone, it is said to sound the death knell. But “death knell” is more often used figuratively, as in “his arrest for embezzlement sounded the death knell for Rob’s campaign to be state treasurer.”

Another way to describe the final blow that finishes someone or something off is “put the last nail in the coffin,” as in “a huge budget cut put the last nail in the coffin of the city’s plan to erect a statue of the mayor’s dog.” Something not yet fatal but seriously damaging can be said to “drive another nail” in its coffin.


Nothing new here, conservatives fucking thing up. If you were at least literate maybe we could take you seriously, occasionally. LOL. death nail, lol
 
"Horseshit!!!!

In the first place our Constitution has an ”Amendment Process” ..."

We don't need an amendment to the Constitution so that the federal government can do more than field an army and deliver mail.

No shit! Who said we did?

Americans have been debating the size and scope of the federal government since our founding, as we should continually. But thank God we don't have this idea that everything must be left to the states alone, or to the marketplace.

Who are you accusing of that folly? The powers of the federal government are nicely outlined in the Constitution incorporating more powers than fielding an army and delivering the mail. There is also an amendment process allowing for resolutions to future issues. I don’t believe for a second that the founders intended that the Constitution be so ignored that future generations would only have amended it 27 times in 224 years. My argument is simply that “The States” and “The People” have been denied and robed of their due process of constitutional law. Power mad politicians and courts have stolen our birthright to participate in the decisions of how we are to be governed.


We'd be a Third World country today if we adhered so closely to reading of those principles established in the mid-1700s, principles which were fiercely debated by our Founding Fathers.

If our founders believed that the founding principles they gave us were not to be “fiercely” adhered to, then why did they so fiercely debate and establish them as the rule of all law? Why did they waste so much time, paper and ink? Why did they insist that all politicians and judges take a sacred oath to preserve, protect and defend those principles? Why didn’t they simply establish golf courses where they could cut the governing deals in a much more relaxed and friendly atmosphere? Why didn’t they simply appoint a King to handle the controversies and rule over the minions as some of them promoted? Why did the idea of a Constitutional Republic by a democratic process win out over the desire of some to establish a Royal Monarchy?

We have tested and debated and ran these notions through the US Supreme Court countless times. We even fought a Civil War to secure the notion that the federal government can regulate commerce inside the states.

The courts have become a bastion of partisan politicized hacks. The Supreme Court sets aside the Constitution in favor of its own political ideology. The examples are countless. They have especially rendered the 10th amendment null and void. They have morphed the Constitution to hardly more than toilet paper. They’re political ideologues appointed by political ideologues and confirmed by political ideologues. Their loyalties are to their political ideologies in willful ignorance of their oath of office and the Constitution.

Again, we could on forever agreeing bloated the federal government has become, and how counter-productive so many programs and Departments are. But you are confusing the guiding principle that what the states can do should be left to the states, with the idea that there is virtually nothing that the federal government can or should do.

Its you who are confused! The federal government is supposed to be restrained by the powers offered and confirmed to it by the Constitution and nothing more (which I support). I don’t believe that the States should do everything, nor have I ever said as much. My argument and protest is simply that the federal government does WAY too much and does what it has no constitutional authority to be doing. My argument is that soooooo much of what the federal government does can be done much better by the States and often even the people themselves. I argue that the States are a perfect laboratory of 50 experiments to establish social programs and regulations that one another of the States can copy or revise or ignore as opposed to the federal government’s “one size fits all” approach and the feds endless violations of our Constitution. The States are the best laboratories for education and economic conditions. I argue that the people under such conditions of State’s rights and authority are afforded the option of voting with their feet. They can and would migrate to the State whereby they are afforded their best opportunities to secure their personal and or collective rights and economic endeavors.

Surely you're not suggesting that states themselves could have set up a national interstate highway system, provided the GI Bill, created a space program, or done the work of NIH researchers "Horseshit!" for sure.

Again I repeat, “The Congress shall have the power…..to raise and SUPPORT armies…..” That takes care of the GI bill. “The Congress shall have the power to…… establish post roads…..to regulate commerce…..” That takes care of the Interstate Highway system.

Again I ask why NASA could not have been confirmed and authorized by a constitutional amendment? I ask why the States and the people should not have had the opportunity to decide on the establishment of federal scientific programs by constitutional amendment? I ask again why the States and the people should not have had the opportunity to have their say by amendment for every federal program that isn’t authorized by the Constitution?

I’ll ask you why the federal government once upon a time found it necessary to have an amendment to our Constitution ratified to prohibit the transportation and sale of intoxicating alcohol beverages, but sought no such amendment to prohibit the sale or transportation or usage of some drugs? I’ll ask you how the courts found the latter to be constitutional?
 
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