Jesus and Siddhartha Gautama

[Dutch Uncle]

This was originally posted on another thread. Slightly edited from the original.

Although not a Christian myself, at least not a conventional Christian, I was raised as one and my wife is a devout Christian. I strongly support Christian values even though I doubt the divinity of Christ.

There is a lot of commonality between Jesus of Nazareth and Siddhartha Gautama. It would not surprise me if there was eventual proof that the missing years between when Jesus was 12 and 33 were spent in India.

Regardless of religion or spiritual beliefs, people can see the glass as half full or half empty, they can see people as mostly good or mostly bad and they can seek to fly with the good angels or the dark ones, with group with good people or bad.

I forget who, but a Zen master once said (and I paraphrase) "Jesus and Siddhartha are the same except one was the son of a carpenter and the other a son of a king". Both had a religion formed around them even though I strongly doubt that was their intent. Both espoused points of view that emphasized forgiveness, peace and trying to better oneself for the greater good.

Please try to stay on topic. No one is banned from commenting and derails are expected but if someone ignores warnings to stay on topic or keep the conversation civil, they will be asked to leave.

 

[Bill]

The Baha’i believe in a progressive revelation of God

Is this kinda what you believe??

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The Baha’i believe in a progressive revelation of Godhttps://bahaiteachings.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/progressive_revelatoin-e-720x720.jpg

Is this kinda what you believe??

I love the philosophy although anytime someone lies to me or bends the truth such stating "the Baha’i Faith is the world’s second-most widespread religion after Christianity" it casts a cloud on their veracity.

That said, I'm not anti-religion, but I'm not a religious joiner either. Religions require adherence to dogma and, IMO, dogma is an anchor dragging down spiritual growth.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

I'm a bit confused about the topic. Are we supposed to relate our own beliefs? Discuss whether Jesus and the Buddha are similar or not? Accuse all the skeptics of being atheists who hate Christians? Mock Christians and call their god "sky daddy"?

We need some guidance here!

 

[Cypress]

This was originally posted on another thread. Slightly edited from the original.

Although not a Christian myself, at least not a conventional Christian, I was raised as one and my wife is a devout Christian. I strongly support Christian values even though I doubt the divinity of Christ.

There is a lot of commonality between Jesus of Nazareth and Siddhartha Gautama. It would not surprise me if there was eventual proof that the missing years between when Jesus was 12 and 33 were spent in India.

Regardless of religion or spiritual beliefs, people can see the glass as half full or half empty, they can see people as mostly good or mostly bad and they can seek to fly with the good angels or the dark ones, with group with good people or bad.

I forget who, but a Zen master once said (and I paraphrase) "Jesus and Siddhartha are the same except one was the son of a carpenter and the other a son of a king". Both had a religion formed around them even though I strongly doubt that was their intent. Both espoused points of view that emphasized forgiveness, peace and trying to better oneself for the greater good.

Please try to stay on topic. No one is banned from commenting and derails are expected but if someone ignores warnings to stay on topic or keep the conversation civil, they will be asked to leave.

There is zero evidence Jesus went to India, and it is implausible that an itinerant Jewish teacher of the first century could have made his way to Northern India. The Mediterranean people of that era were only dimly aware of the Indus River valley and not much else beyond that.

What we do now with historical confidence is that many religious traditions and ethical philisophies were occurring all over the world at about the same time during the Axial age and into the first century. All these traditions were asking similar questions about what constitutes the ethical life, what is the nature of virtue. These questions appear to be inherent to human nature.

It is more plausible Jesus and his followers were nominally aware of Zoroastrianism while the probability they were aware of Buddhism is zero

 

[Dutch Uncle]

There is zero evidence Jesus went to India, and it is implausible that an itinerant Jewish teacher of the first century could have made his way to Northern India. The Mediterranean people of that era were only dimly aware of the Indus River valley and not much else beyond that.

What we do now with historical confidence is that many religious traditions and ethical philisophies were occurring all over the world at about the same time during the Axial age and into the first century. All these traditions were asking similar questions about what constitutes the ethical life, what is the nature of virtue. These questions appear to be inherent to human nature.

It is more plausible Jesus and his followers were nominally aware of Zoroastrianism while the probability they were aware of Buddhism is zero

Agreed about evidence of travel to India, but aside from the Bible and a dubious note by Flavius Josephus, there is zero evidence Jesus existed.

Disagreed that Jesus or anyone else couldn't spend two decades traveling from Judea to India, living there and returning. OTOH, he wouldn't have to go all the way to India. Just far enough east to encounter the ideas of Buddhism and other Eastern religions.

Agreed on Zoroastrianism but I fail to see why you are in such denial that anyone from Judea could learn about Buddhism.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I'm a bit confused about the topic. Are we supposed to relate our own beliefs? Discuss whether Jesus and the Buddha are similar or not? Accuse all the skeptics of being atheists who hate Christians? Mock Christians and call their god "sky daddy"?

We need some guidance here!

As long as it's civil, anyone can voice their own beliefs, but the main topic is how how the philosophy of Jesus compares to Buddhism. It should be obvious to all that the differences between the Old Testament and the New Testament are as different as night and day.

It should be obvious to those who take a look that there are more similarities between the philosophy of Jesus and Buddhism than between the God of Peace, Love and Mercy as presented by Jesus and the God of Wrath as presented in the OT.

Atheists love to mock other religions with "sky daddy" while protecting their own beliefs as "disbelief". That's not the topic here. It's possible to discuss the philosophy of Jesus without divinity. When Christianity started out, there was great debate about whether Jesus was a prophet or divine. It's no secret the Gospels were written several decades after the Crucifixion and that the concept of the Trinity was not finalized until three centuries after the Crucifixion. In those days, aside from the Romans, the biggest killer of Christians were other Christians as their various beliefs evolved and conflicted.

 

[Bill]

I love the philosophy although anytime someone lies to me or bends the truth such stating "the Baha’i Faith is the world’s second-most widespread religion after Christianity" it casts a cloud on their veracity.

That said, I'm not anti-religion, but I'm not a religious joiner either. Religions require adherence to dogma and, IMO, dogma is an anchor dragging down spiritual growth.

Yes, although I dunno what tiny percent actually adhere..

I have not heard they are anywhere near 2nd...

 

[PostmodernProphet]

There is a lot of commonality between Jesus of Nazareth and Siddhartha Gautama.

don't know much about Gautama.......so was he also an eternal God who created the heavens and the earth and then became incarnate to save his creation from their sins by sacrificing his life on the cross and then raising from the dead?.....

 

[Bill]

There is zero evidence Jesus went to India, and it is implausible that an itinerant Jewish teacher of the first century could have made his way to Northern India. The Mediterranean people of that era were only dimly aware of the Indus River valley and not much else beyond that.

What we do now with historical confidence is that many religious traditions and ethical philisophies were occurring all over the world at about the same time during the Axial age and into the first century. All these traditions were asking similar questions about what constitutes the ethical life, what is the nature of virtue. These questions appear to be inherent to human nature.

It is more plausible Jesus and his followers were nominally aware of Zoroastrianism while the probability they were aware of Buddhism is zero

I totally agree there is zero evidence, @ least I have not seen any.. But there was some contact as the Greeks had been there, Punjab etc for 200 years.... Lots of examples of various Gods there in the Greek style there, up into Afghani-Nam...

Not sure how much went the other direction back to Greece which had a quite vigorous and varied tradition of arguing about various faiths, philosophies etc..

The 3 wisemen are believed to be from or associated w/ Zoroastrianism in some way.. The Maji-Persian, & their role has always been odd

 

[Cypress]

I totally agree there is zero evidence, @ least I have not seen any.. But there was some contact as the Greeks had been there, Punjab etc for 200 years.... Lots of examples of various Gods there in the Greek style there, up into Afghani-Nam...

Not sure how much went the other direction back to Greece which had a quite vigorous and varied tradition of arguing about various faiths, philosophies etc..

The 3 wisemen are believed to be from or associated w/ Zoroastrianism in some way.. The Maji-Persian, & their role has always been odd

I did not know that about the wise men.

I believe a Christian conection to Zoroastrianism seems more plausible than to Buddhism. Zoroastrianism being a near eastern pseudo-monotheistic religion with a simliar ethical philosophy

Yes, Alexander made it to the Indus Valley, and undoutedly heard tales of civilizations further east along the Ganges. But Mediterranean people's knowledge of anything east of the Indus must have been minimal and speculative

Wrapping up, I think we should take Jesus at his word. That he was Jewish and his ethical philosophy came out of the Jewish apocalyptic tradition

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I did not know that about the wise men.

I believe a Christian conection to Zoroastrianism seems more plausible than to Buddhism. Zoroastrianism being a near eastern pseudo-monotheistic religion with a simliar ethical philosophy

Yes, Alexander made it to the Indus Valley, and undoutedly heard tales of civilizations further east along the Ganges. But Mediterranean people's knowledge of anything east of the Indus must have been minimal and speculative

Wrapping up, I think we should take Jesus at his word. That he was Jewish and his ethical philosophy came out of the Jewish apocalyptic tradition

Good points about the Magi and Alexander.

There was trade between the Romans and India 30 years before Jesus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Roman_trade_relations
Indo-Roman trade relations (see also the spice trade and incense road) was trade between the Indian subcontinent and the Roman Empire in Europe and the Mediterranean Sea. Trade through the overland caravan routes via Asia Minor and the Middle East, though at a relative trickle compared to later times, antedated the southern trade route via the Red Sea and monsoons which started around the beginning of the Common Era (CE) following the reign of Augustus and his conquest of Egypt in 30 BCE.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

....Wrapping up, I think we should take Jesus at his word. That he was Jewish and his ethical philosophy came out of the Jewish apocalyptic tradition

That's the problem: there is no word from Jesus or anyone else from the time he was 12 until he came to Jerusalem at age 33. So where was he? Maybe I missed it.

 

[Bill]

That's the problem: there is no word from Jesus or anyone else from the time he was 12 until he came to Jerusalem at age 33. So where was he? Maybe I missed it.

I know many asked the same question, often filling in the gap w/ their best guess/educated guess, but why did he have to go some place?? Back then most ppl didn't travel far unless they had to + if he was a carpenter, could he have just been busy??

 

[Bill]

Hopefully the experts will show up in the thread & dazzle us w/ their brilliance or try to baffle us w/ their bullshit.

 

[Cypress]

Agreed about evidence of travel to India, but aside from the Bible and a dubious note by Flavius Josephus, there is zero evidence Jesus existed.

Disagreed that Jesus or anyone else couldn't spend two decades traveling from Judea to India, living there and returning. OTOH, he wouldn't have to go all the way to India. Just far enough east to encounter the ideas of Buddhism and other Eastern religions.

Agreed on Zoroastrianism but I fail to see why you are in such denial that anyone from Judea could learn about Buddhism.

All I am saying is that in all the history and religion classes I have taken, I have never heard of any credible evidence that first century Christians interacted in any way with Indian Budhhists.

 

[Cypress]

That's the problem: there is no word from Jesus or anyone else from the time he was 12 until he came to Jerusalem at age 33. So where was he? Maybe I missed it.

I think the point of the Gospels was to provide witness to Jesus' ministry, death, and resurrection. I do not think they were intended as biographies of his life in the way modern readers are accustomed to biographical literature

 

[Dutch Uncle]

All I am saying is that in all the history and religion classes I have taken, I have never heard of any credible evidence that first century Christians interacted in any way with Indian Budhhists.

There's an old saying about how things happen when their time has come. This is why sometimes a few people will come up with the same idea, but only one was lucky (or skilled) enough to get credit for it. Tesla and Edison are two famous examples.

Even though Siddhartha predates Jesus by about 500 years, tech being what it was in those days, the concepts Buddha brought to India could have be independently brought by Jesus to Judea. Even so, I think the missing years present an opportunity for travel and education. Why do you think there is a 20 year gap in the history of Jesus?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hopefully the experts will show up in the thread & dazzle us w/ their brilliance or try to baffle us w/ their bullshit.

LOL Always more fun that way.

For some reason there is no "thanks" bar under your name, so "thanks!"

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I know many asked the same question, often filling in the gap w/ their best guess/educated guess, but why did he have to go some place?? Back then most ppl didn't travel far unless they had to + if he was a carpenter, could he have just been busy??

Perhaps he was driven. Secularists would think in more Earthly terms, but those who believe in the divinity of Jesus might think it was God driving him to explore the world a bit for perspective.

While most people would stay on one place, can we agree that, regardless of religious views, Jesus wasn't "most people"?