Killer-Victim

[Paul Siraisi]

I think this guy gets it right:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog.../officer-christopher-dorner-all-american-hero

As if it needed saying, US culture has somewhat lost its way.

 

[The Dude]

Gun culture, not happy shoot someone and share the misery.

 

[Minister of Truth]

Gun culture, not happy shoot someone and share he misery.

Gun control culture. Preach for strong gun control measures, then get unhappy and shoot several people and share the misery.

 

[Howey]

Although I can sympathize with the bigotry and environment Dorner faced, his handling of it indicated mental imbalance.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Although I can sympathize with the bigotry and environment Dorner faced, his handling of it indicated mental imbalance.

tell us, oh wise one, what does one do when the system doesn't help you, but takes from you everything you have and leaves you painted in the corner with no options left?

 

[The Dude]

Gun control culture. Preach for strong gun control measures, then get unhappy and shoot several people and share the misery.

Loser they don't have guns

 

[The Dude]

tell us, oh wise one, what does one do when the system doesn't help you, but takes from you everything you have and leaves you painted in the corner with no options left?

Same thing as after a divorce cable guy.
Pull your boot straps up and make it somewhere else!
Tard, you don't make change with guns

 

[Timshel]

I am a victim of the victim mentality too.

 

[Canceled.2014.1]

Does no one actually discuss the topics offered anymore?

This is not about gun control or no gun control. This is about addressing the issues that may be at the root of many of the shootings.

We, as a society, have created an environment in which the victims feel justififed in fighting back by any means possible. The rhetoric has gotten steadily more and more violent. And this is not some issue that is only with the conservatives or the liberals, GOP or DMC. This is both sides and is permeating our entire society.

Read the article, and then how about we try to actually discuss the issues brought up by the writer.

 

[Timshel]

Does no one actually discuss the topics offered anymore?

This is not about gun control or no gun control. This is about addressing the issues that may be at the root of many of the shootings.

We, as a society, have created an environment in which the victims feel justififed in fighting back by any means possible. The rhetoric has gotten steadily more and more violent. And this is not some issue that is only with the conservatives or the liberals, GOP or DMC. This is both sides and is permeating our entire society.

Read the article, and then how about we try to actually discuss the issues brought up by the writer.

I think the author could have been a little clearer that it was not a leftwing thing. He ended with criticizing Dorner for rejecting Christianity after having praised "all major religions" for teaching "people how not to think like victims." All major religions do contain some of those nuggets but they also teach victimization. The article seemed to have a slightly conservative skew.

But I agree with him that the notion that we are justified in violence by our victimization is a problem. Like you say, the rhetoric has become too violent.

I think top's response to sty was correct though. If you find you can't live with the injustice of the system or change the system then you move on and find a new system. You don't go on a killing spree or burn it all down. People don't always behave fairly and the good guy does not always right the wrongs. That does not mean you get to splatter their blood and if a few innocents get caught in the crossfire it is all fine.

MLK and Ghandhi were real and Rambo was a bunch of Hollywood bullshit.

 

[Canceled.2014.1]

I think the author could have been a little clearer that it was not a leftwing thing. He ended with criticizing Dorner for rejecting Christianity after having praised "all major religions" for teaching "people how not to think like victims." All major religions do contain some of those nuggets but they also teach victimization. The article seemed to have a slightly conservative skew.

But I agree with him that the notion that we are justified in violence by our victimization is a problem. Like you say, the rhetoric has become too violent.

I think top's response to sty was correct though. If you find you can't live with the injustice of the system or change the system then you move on and find a new system. You don't go on a killing spree or burn it all down. People don't always behave fairly and the good guy does not always right the wrongs. That does not mean you get to splatter their blood and if a few innocents get caught in the crossfire it is all fine.

MLK and Ghandhi were real and Rambo was a bunch of Hollywood bullshit.

The author quoted Michael Moore and said he was on the right track. That is not typically a conservative view.

Yes, there may be some leanings here and there, but the main point of the article is a good one. We ask "Why?" when these shootings happen. The politicians and others jump to promote their agenda and knee-jerk reactions prevail. Here someone may be giving good information as to why these things do happen.

 

[Canceled.2014.1]

From the linked article:

"It has become in vogue for social scientists to blame society for all individual ills. If there is anyone other than Dorner himself to blame for his terrorism, it is our own modern culture, which has rejected the wisdom of the ages and replaced it with an anti-bully/pro-victim philosophy. Beginning with preschool, we are teaching children a set of irrational beliefs that set them up for victimization–that we are entitled to a life in which no one disrespects us; that insults are worse than broken bones; that racial insults are the absolute worst thing of all; that bullies are evil and victims are virtuous; that our emotional pain is other people’s fault; that we must inform the authorities whenever we feel bullied; that the authorities are unbiased assessors of good and evil who can recognize that we are the good ones and our bullies are the bad ones; and that the authorities can be relied on to take our side against our bullies. As long as we continue to inculcate the population with these beliefs–we will find people whose illusions burst and resort to guns to create their own justice.

I know many readers will be mad at me for saying this, but I am simply the messenger: We will never get rid of violence as long as we continue teaching that no one has a right to disrespect us."

 

[Timshel]

The author quoted Michael Moore and said he was on the right track. That is not typically a conservative view.

Yes, there may be some leanings here and there, but the main point of the article is a good one. We ask "Why?" when these shootings happen. The politicians and others jump to promote their agenda and knee-jerk reactions prevail. Here someone may be giving good information as to why these things do happen.

First off, I am not all that concerened about his slant. I think he made some valid points.

But, he kind of twists Michael Moore's point. Michael Moore is not arguing that we are taught that blacks are bullies. Right wingers don't complain that blacks have a bully mentality but that they have a victim mentality.

What you quote in the post after this is problematic too. This whole bullshit about the singular ideas of what modern society is teaching us or our kids is a common right wing rant and it is mostly bullshit. Just like the major religions, our culture teaches all sorts of conflicting ideas. That's not going to change.

If you feel the need to get violent count to ten, take a vacation, go get a massage or whatever works for you. If you think you are going to change the world through the application of violent force then you are an idiot.

Again, Django and Rambo are pure fantasy.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Same thing as after a divorce cable guy.
Pull your boot straps up and make it somewhere else!
Tard, you don't make change with guns

look who's the tard. A divorce isn't the system being used to fuck your entire life. When the government uses the system against you to ruin your life, all of it, you don't have any boot straps to pick yourself up with. damn, you're fucking stupid.
and you don't make change with guns???? tell that to obama and his JBT drug warriors.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Does no one actually discuss the topics offered anymore?

This is not about gun control or no gun control. This is about addressing the issues that may be at the root of many of the shootings.

We, as a society, have created an environment in which the victims feel justififed in fighting back by any means possible.

No, we have created an environment where the victims have no recourse at all. the government holds all the cards, all the money, and has all the time in the world to beat you down until you're nothing but a bloody piece of pulp in the dirt and you have no recourse at all within the system.

The rhetoric has gotten steadily more and more violent. And this is not some issue that is only with the conservatives or the liberals, GOP or DMC. This is both sides and is permeating our entire society.

because the government has gotten more aggressive with it's oppression.

 

[Timshel]

No, we have created an environment where the victims have no recourse at all. the government holds all the cards, all the money, and has all the time in the world to beat you down until you're nothing but a bloody piece of pulp in the dirt and you have no recourse at all within the system.

because the government has gotten more aggressive with it's oppression.

You have recourse within the system. The fact that not enough people agree with you to enact the changes you want is no excuse for violence. Dorner is just another quitter.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

You have recourse within the system. The fact that not enough people agree with you to enact the changes you want is no excuse for violence. Dorner is just another quitter.

not that I know enough about Dorner and his case to disprove you, but the Reese firearms case is one example where the government can, and will, indeed beat the life out of you in it's efforts to destroy you and succeed. so no, you have NO RECOURSE in the system once the government steps out to destroy you.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

tell us, oh wise one, what does one do when the system doesn't help you, but takes from you everything you have and leaves you painted in the corner with no options left?

You seriously aren't defending Dorner are you?

 

[SmarterthanYou]

You seriously aren't defending Dorner are you?

I'll say this again. I do NOT KNOW the issues surrounding Dorners reasons, nor at this point do I care. What I DO KNOW is that it's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong and when the government wants to crush you, they can and they will. When you have no legal options left, you resort to the gun.

 

[Disillusioned]

From the linked article:

"It has become in vogue for social scientists to blame society for all individual ills. If there is anyone other than Dorner himself to blame for his terrorism, it is our own modern culture, which has rejected the wisdom of the ages and replaced it with an anti-bully/pro-victim philosophy. Beginning with preschool, we are teaching children a set of irrational beliefs that set them up for victimization–that we are entitled to a life in which no one disrespects us; that insults are worse than broken bones; that racial insults are the absolute worst thing of all; that bullies are evil and victims are virtuous; that our emotional pain is other people’s fault; that we must inform the authorities whenever we feel bullied; that the authorities are unbiased assessors of good and evil who can recognize that we are the good ones and our bullies are the bad ones; and that the authorities can be relied on to take our side against our bullies. As long as we continue to inculcate the population with these beliefs–we will find people whose illusions burst and resort to guns to create their own justice.

I know many readers will be mad at me for saying this, but I am simply the messenger: We will never get rid of violence as long as we continue teaching that no one has a right to disrespect us."

It's a rather interesting dichotomy he seems to be suggesting, on the one hand he wants to take away the holiness of the "victim mentality" which you can pretty much see anywhere in the media where it's always best to be the "victim" and yet he also ends with an idea that people do have the right to "disrespect us" and we shouldn't shoot them. There is a middle ground in there I know, but due to the republicans and democrats trying to distance themselves from one another, we're unlikely to find it.