Left and right united in opposition to controversial SCOTUS decision

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Left and right united in opposition to controversial SCOTUS decision

Much has been made of late about the hyper-partisan political environment in America. On Tuesday, Sen. Evan Bayh explained his surprising recent decision to leave the Senate by lamenting a "dysfunctional" political system riddled with "brain-dead partisanship." It seems you'd be hard-pressed to get Republicans and Democrats inside and outside of Washington to agree on anything these days, that if one party publicly stated its intention to add a "puppies are adorable" declaration to its platform, that the other party would immediately launch a series of anti-puppy advertisements.

But it appears that one issue does unite Americans across the political spectrum.

A new Washington Post-ABC News poll finds that the vast majority of Americans are vehemently opposed to a recent Supreme Court ruling that opens the door for corporations, labor unions, and other organizations to spend money directly from their general funds to influence campaigns.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1137

while americans have every right to voice their complaints about the ruling, the judicial branch is the ONE branch that is supposed to be beyond this kind of political mob mentality. if the people don't like it, then congress needs to craft a law that will withstand judicial scrutiny. i believe such a law can be written. the compelling interest must be clearly outlined as protecting a fair political process. what i mean is, put a cap on everyone's spending on political campaigns.

at this point, i think it is a good idea. spending over half a billion dollars on a presidential campaign is ludicrious. i can only imagine future campaigns exceeding a billion dollars. i don't think the extra ads really give people more information on which to make a more informed choice, IMO, it is basically more spam.
 
Pass a constitutional amendment or wait until we can appoint a sane supreme court. Hopefully Scalia kicks the bucket in the next eight years.
 
Since when does regulating and restricting something make it less important? I hate to burst your bubble, but the "influence money" is going to find its way into the political system one way or another, it's just a matter of what information you want to be told. For instance, if a corporation funnels money into a 527 group, is it any less influential than if they donated directly to the campaign? Seems to me, the money spends the same either way, and has just as much influence either way, the difference is the information we are given as voters. Instead of seeing XYZ Corporation donated $X to Joe Politician, we see Citizens For Rainbow Ponies made a 527 contribution, and we feel better about it.
 
Pass a constitutional amendment or wait until we can appoint a sane supreme court. Hopefully Scalia kicks the bucket in the next eight years.

You don't "pass" a constitutional amendment. It has to be "ratified" (voted on) and approved by 3/4 of the states. It's not something that can be done in one session of Congress, it sometimes takes years.
 
Since when does regulating and restricting something make it less important? I hate to burst your bubble, but the "influence money" is going to find its way into the political system one way or another, it's just a matter of what information you want to be told. For instance, if a corporation funnels money into a 527 group, is it any less influential than if they donated directly to the campaign? Seems to me, the money spends the same either way, and has just as much influence either way, the difference is the information we are given as voters. Instead of seeing XYZ Corporation donated $X to Joe Politician, we see Citizens For Rainbow Ponies made a 527 contribution, and we feel better about it.

i agree....

that is why i think we should limit ALL political spending. if you want to get out and plaster posters to telephone poles, go for it. but let's be honest, he or she who controls the airwaves (tv, radio) has a vastly stronger chance of winning an election.

the liberals in california are hypocritically running or are going to run i don't remember, ads about ex ebay ceo whitman spending her personal fortune on the election, they are accusing her of "buying" the election. now, i haven't seen the ads, so i'll leave it at that. but you can't tell me mccain knew and you knew, he was at a major disadvantage simply because obama had hundreds of millions more than mccain to spend on advertisements.
 
i believe such a law can be written. the compelling interest must be clearly outlined as protecting a fair political process. what i mean is, put a cap on everyone's spending on political campaigns.

If by fairness you mean, leveling the playing field, no that will not pass a constitutional test. It would not have passed with any of the courts of the last 30 years.
 
Oh my lord....NOW you're against this?

LOL

against what? the ruling? no, the ruling is absolutely sound. your irrational hatred for me has caused to once again distort what i actually. go read my OP again. i never once said the ruling was wrong.

if you are going to continue this dishonest game of lying about what i said, or accusing me of lying with absolutely no evidence or links, then you and i have nothing further to discuss onceler.
 
You don't "pass" a constitutional amendment. It has to be "ratified" (voted on) and approved by 3/4 of the states. It's not something that can be done in one session of Congress, it sometimes takes years.

he's not referring to amending the constitution. he's wanting to use judicial tyranny to obtain their anti constitutional objectives.
 
i agree....

that is why i think we should limit ALL political spending. if you want to get out and plaster posters to telephone poles, go for it. but let's be honest, he or she who controls the airwaves (tv, radio) has a vastly stronger chance of winning an election.

the liberals in california are hypocritically running or are going to run i don't remember, ads about ex ebay ceo whitman spending her personal fortune on the election, they are accusing her of "buying" the election. now, i haven't seen the ads, so i'll leave it at that. but you can't tell me mccain knew and you knew, he was at a major disadvantage simply because obama had hundreds of millions more than mccain to spend on advertisements.

Even if we could wave a magic wand and eliminate all the 527's, Unions, Special Interests, Lobbies, and Corporations from contributing to political campaigns, they would find a way to do it through the individual contributions... even if you limited those, there would people's dead grandmothers donating money every election! You are trying to fight this from the wrong side. It's like saying, if we pass another law against burglary, it will help to stop so many burglaries from happening. The only thing that will stop burglaries is hiring more police and enforcing the law.

I think the answer is full transparency and disclosure laws, along with strict enforcement of the law and heavy penalties for violating it. This way, we see exactly who is contributing to whom, and where the money is coming from, and we can hold the politician accountable for his actions. Picking and choosing which groups get the right to contribute to campaigns and which ones don't, is not only a waste of time, but patently unfair to those being discriminated against in the process.
 
The constitutional justification for CFR was that it furthered the states interests in limiting corruption or the perception of corruption. It does not actually do that, but that was the justification. Justifications based on fairness were rejected. The state has no legitimate interest in a "fair" contest between competing political viewpoints.
 
OTE=Dixie;604373]Even if we could wave a magic wand and eliminate all the 527's, Unions, Special Interests, Lobbies, and Corporations from contributing to political campaigns, they would find a way to do it through the individual contributions... even if you limited those, there would people's dead grandmothers donating money every election! You are trying to fight this from the wrong side. It's like saying, if we pass another law against burglary, it will help to stop so many burglaries from happening. The only thing that will stop burglaries is hiring more police and enforcing the law.

no, i specifically said airwaves such as tv and radio. granted, this might only work until the internet is completely meshed with tv.

the point is.........the ADS. obama was able to afford a half hour of prime time commercial for his campaign. that is stellar, something only corporations or other deep pockets can afford. and obama is just the beginning, he just set the playing the field as did all the other ever higher spending candidates before him. next up........the BILLION dollar campaign.

I think the answer is full transparency and disclosure laws, along with strict enforcement of the law and heavy penalties for violating it. This way, we see exactly who is contributing to whom, and where the money is coming from, and we can hold the politician accountable for his actions. Picking and choosing which groups get the right to contribute to campaigns and which ones don't, is not only a waste of time, but patently unfair to those being discriminated against in the process.

disclosure law, sure, you mean like those auction quick voices at the end of a 30 second commercial?

this is not just about holding a politician accountable dixie, this is about giving americans the most open, fair and knowledgable political process.
 
80% of Americans against this shit? No surprise here. America was founded by anti-corporatists. It’s still in our blood, one can hope.

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."

--Thomas Jefferson

Is it any surprise that only on message boards does one even run across the tiny minority of teabaggers, extremist conservatives, and buffoonish wingnuts who cheered on this farce of a decision? These dupes are the direct descendants of the Tories, and the royalists. And there’s not a single doubt that had they been born in the 18th century, Fat Ass Scalia, Clarence Thomas, Dumbya Bush and Ronald Reagan would have been fighting on the side of the British East India Corporation against the American revolutionary radicals.

How a clerical error made corporations "people"

Jim Hightower - Liberal

The corporation was perceived by the founders to be a beast that was, by its nature, a threat to a people's democracy. Not only had the rebels battled the autocratic King George III, but they specifically went to war against the plutocratic imperialism of British trading corporations that were imposing their private will on the colonies.

In the Boston Tea Party, it was not the King's ships that were boarded by the Sons of Liberty, but three ships of the British East India Company. It was corporate tea that they dumped into Boston Harbor (an act that today's Limbaughs and O'Reillys would decry as Marxist-inspired vandalism against the sanctity of corporate property rights).

Jefferson, Madison, and others knew that corporations are inherently anti-democratic constructs of the wealthy elite, allowing the controlling investors to do two dangerous things: 1. amass more money than the public can muster—money to elevate their private interest above the common good; and 2. absolve them from responsibility for the damage done by their corporation.

This last advantage is especially mischievous. If an individual business owner or partnership defrauds, kills, pollutes, or otherwise acts badly, the owners pay the price. But if a corporation does the bad, the owners don't go to jail or pay the fines. The corporate structure creates a one-way wall: It allows the owners to reap all of the profits of corporate activity, while they are protected from any responsibility for corporate illegalities.

A sweet deal for them—though we know what a sour deal it has been for workers, consumers, environmentalists, small businesses, communities, taxpayers, and the general public.

From the start, the corporate structure was the exact opposite of democracy, and its single-minded pursuit of private gain was at odds with the public good.

The founders knew that this anti-democracy bomb had to be tightly controlled, so the state charters authorizing each corporation to exist served as rigorous watchdogs for the public interest.

To get a charter, a corporation:

Had to have a public purpose; i.e., from building canals to providing education (Harvard University, for example, was the first U.S. corporation). If it failed to perform its public purpose, the corporation was dissolved.

Was limited in what business it could pursue, was not allowed to buy other corporations, and could amass only a certain level of capital.

Faced term limits, with its charter usually expiring after 15 or 20 years, requiring it to seek renewal.

Had to treat farmers, small businesses, and other suppliers fairly and responsibly. Was strictly prohibited from engaging in lobbying or political campaigns.

Jefferson, Madison, and others actually wanted an eleventh amendment in the Bill of Rights. As described by Thom Hartmann in his book about the rise of corporate dominance, Unequal Protection: "Jefferson kept pushing for a law, written into the Constitution as an amendment, that would prevent companies from growing so large that they could dominate entire industries or have the power to influence the people's government."

Referring to "artificial aristocracies," Jefferson pushed for a formal declaration of "freedom of commerce against monopolies." The chief reason that this was not included in our constitutional protections is that other founders felt it was simply unnecessary, since corporate power was so universally condemned at the time and was considered to be held in check by the vigilant state-chartering process.

If only they had heeded Jefferson's warnings that the corporation is an incorrigible beast that will not—cannot—restrain itself, and perpetually seeks to expand its reach, wealth, and power beyond whatever limits society draws!

While the people continued to favor strict restraints, by the time of the Civil War, corporate fiefdoms were growing with industrialization, and the war itself fueled these new empires with rich government war contracts.
(Some things never change: Just days into this latest war with Iraq, Bush Inc. shamelessly awarded the first pile of Iraq-reconstruction money to a subsidiary of Dick Cheney's old company, Halliburton. The exact amount of the multimillion-dollar contract is "classified.")

This rise did not go unnoticed. America's last great Republican president, Abraham Lincoln, was appalled by the brazenness of corporate war profiteers. J.P. Morgan, for example (hailed today as an icon of corporate meritocracy), bought 5,000 defective rifles for $3.50 each from a U.S. Army arsenal, then resold them to a Union field general for $22 each and skipped off with his war profits, while the rifles exploded in the hands of the soldiers who carried them.

In an 1864 letter to his friend Col. William Elkins, Lincoln wrote: "I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety than ever before, even in the midst of war."

How right he was, and how quickly his dread was realized! In industry after industry, the new ruthless, monopolistic force of the Robber Barons arose in the 1870s, muscling aside competitors, bribing governors and entire legislatures, installing hack judges, chipping away at state charter limits—steadily slipping the traces of democratic control.
If you want to know the attitude of the barons as they rushed to empower their corporate entities over America's democratic pretensions, hear the words of railroad monopolist Cornelius Vanderbilt: "What do I care about the law? H'ain't I got the power?"

This time it's personal.
They had the power and the money, but in 1886, they reached for the ultimate legal sanction to imbue their financial empires with the natural rights of humans. This was a quiet coup, the death knell for the founders' dream of a democratic republic, for it would put a private superpower over the people's interest.

Not only are corporations far bigger, richer, and more powerful than individuals, but they also can live forever, don't need clean air and water to live, can't be put in jail, have no moral restraints of their own, and have no other goal but to keep profits flowing to their controlling shareholders.
The one thing—the only thing—that holds them in check is that the corporation itself is nothing but a thing created by We the People. It has no more rights than a cement block—it only exists by the will of the public, which grants it a charter and whatever privileges we chose to bestow (or deny). WE ARE THE SOVEREIGN.

But after the 1868 passage of the Fourteenth Amendment, which provided equal protection of the law to former slaves and all other people, clever corporate lawyers began to make claims that the corporation was not a thing, but a person. This is stupider than B.S. on a stick, but there it was, a product of the sophistry and greed of the Robber Barons. Back then, this argument was going nowhere. No president, Congress, or court (federal or state) was willing to embrace the personhood claim, and none has ever acted to elevate the corporation to such an exalted status.
So where do we get today's assumption that a corporation is fully entitled to the constitutional rights of the American people? It was a mistake!
The mistake came in the writing of a "headnote" to the U.S. Supreme Court's 1886 decision in an obscure tax case called Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad. (I'll not burden you with any minutiae from this case, which involved, of all things, the county's right to tax some of the railroad's fence posts).

As Hartmann details in his book, Unequal Protection, the railroads pushed hard in this unheralded case to get the court to rule that corporations have equal taxation and other human rights under the Fourteenth Amendment. Chief Justice Morrison Waite, a failed Ohio politico and former railroad lawyer, seemed a likely bet to do the corporate bidding—but he did not. The court decided in favor of Southern Pacific on the mundane fence-post matter, but it specifically dodged the immense issue of personhood. It held no open court discussion about it, wrote no opinions mentioning it, and rendered no judgment on it.

But a court reporter, J.C. Bancroft Davis (a former railroad official), wrote the headnote to the decision—a headnote being a summary of the case, for which reporters like Davis received a commission from the publisher of these legal documents. Davis's lead sentence declares: "The defendant Corporations are persons within the intent of the clause in section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which forbids a state to deny any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

That's it. A clerk's personal opinion, carrying no weight of law and misinterpreting what the court said—this is the pillar on which rests today's practically limitless assertions of corporate "rights." Davis later asked Chief Justice Waite whether he was correct in saying that the court had ruled on corporate personhood, and Waite responded that "we avoided meeting the Constitutional questions."

Corporate attorneys seized on the headnote, quoting it as the law of the land, and it was not long before politicians and judges themselves joined in the farce, either because they were eager to support the corporate cause or were simply too lazy to read the actual case.


http://www.hightowerlowdown.org/node/664
 
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I pointed this out when you posted this before. Madison and Jefferson were concerned with government created monopolies. The article by Hightower points that out but makes it seem as if the British East India Company was just a private corporation.

The first quote from Jefferson was him talking specifically about a national bank.
 
I pointed this out when you posted this before. Madison and Jefferson were concerned with government created monopolies. The article by Hightower points that out but makes it seem as if the British East India Company was just a private corporation.

The first quote from Jefferson was him talking specifically about a national bank.

so why didn't they outlaw corporations? you talk of theory, you talk of non binding legal words, you talk of thoughts of men.......while important when trying to determine intent.......does not action speak louder than words?
 
so why didn't they outlaw corporations? you talk of theory, you talk of non binding legal words, you talk of thoughts of men.......while important when trying to determine intent.......does not action speak louder than words?

Because, as Stringy indicated, they are not government created.
 
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