Let's be honest: who the fuck understands the economy?

[Essence]

In case you were wondering, the correct answer is abso-fucking-lutely no one. The reason why is awful and simple: because we don't understand how market inefficiencies develop. And I'm not talking about price bubbles or any macro crap like that. I'm talking about how essentially every model of the market ever developed assumes that vendors have the magical ability to find the customer willing to pay the highest available price for their goods, and every customer has the magical ability to find the vendor willing to sell their goods at the lowest possible price.

That flat-out doesn't happen, and the fact that it doesn't happen means that every model of the economy based on the idea of market efficiency is flawed. Yet, we continue to base policy that affects billions of people on these models, because, well, they're the best we have. Academics can't even agree on what the models mean, much less how policy will change the results, and yet here we are yammering endlessly at each other about the various interpretations of those models and how they affect our opinions about politics. It's all just a giant mental shell game.

"The efficient market, like the existence of God, is not a falsifiable assumption. Belief in the free market is encouraged because its existence produces the necessary outcomes to support the capitalist model of production. If we wish to reshape our economy we must first see past the smokescreen of economic theory and understand the structure of ideology." Matthew Hutchinson

 

[The Dude]

Which is why it's often said to be more art than science.

 

[evince]

all science makes it way forward as best it can with the tools it has at the time.

In doing so new tools are developed.


economics has a tuff task


measuring something that has a human element makes it very tuff.

Some have taken that "market efficiency" idea and made it into a religion.

there is NO automatic setting for the economy like some dream there is

 

[NOVA]

Economics has only one cardinal rule....a rule that works every time, all the time, for everyone, simply stated especially for desh.....

Live within your means.

The first fallacy is thinking, the economy is the market....its not

 

[canceled.2021.1]

I understand it.

 

[Anti-Party]

Basic economy is easy to understand. Advanced economy is impossible to completely understand.

An economy that can produce goods that itself and other countries can buy is a good economy. This is what we use to have.

An economy that outsources jobs and tries to keep workers from having a decent living wage with benefits that match the success of the company will ruin any country. This is what we have now.

Think of our money like a bathtub Ross Perot style. Keep the money flowing in the same tub. And try to get more money/water into that tub. Some water is less useful/used but all the water counts. Now when we start outsourcing we pull the plug on that bathtub. "You can almost hear the sucking sound of jobs leaving America".

WORKING Americans are trying to find jobs. WORKIGN Americans are on Welfare because their jobs won't give them compensation/benefits they deserve from a successful Corporate "TEAM" But this new movement is past judging the poor who don't work, it's now judging the poor that do work, and multiple jobs.

When top management keeps raising prices, yet doesn't give the workers raises, the worker can no longer afford the product they are working to make. We have the top keeping everything like the great depression.

 

[Robo]

An economy that outsources jobs and tries to keep workers from having a decent living wage with benefits that match the success of the company will ruin any country. This is what we have now.

Actually companies base their wage scale for employees on material cost, utility cost, government regulations and taxation and prices charged by competitors. Companies outsource only when the competition from abroad forces them to be more competitive. Proposing that only foreign labor cost and a desire of greed and intentionally imposing low wages on workers by companies is why companies outsource is preposterous. Worker’s wages are simply one of many issues companies have to contend with to remain competitive and profitable. Companies that are not profitable are quickly shit out of luck.

 

[Essence]

Wait...are you saying that without competition from foreign businesses, businesses working in America wouldn't outsource and then pocket the difference as increased profits?


Because it sounds like that's what you're saying.

 

[Robo]

Think of our money like a bathtub Ross Perot style. Keep the money flowing in the same tub. And try to get more money/water into that tub. Some water is less useful/used but all the water counts. Now when we start outsourcing we pull the plug on that bathtub. "You can almost hear the sucking sound of jobs leaving America".

Prove that America has outsourced more jobs than America has imported and created since Ross Perot first predicted “the great sucking sound!”

WORKING Americans are trying to find jobs. WORKIGN Americans are on Welfare because their jobs won't give them compensation/benefits they deserve from a successful Corporate "TEAM" But this new movement is past judging the poor who don't work, it's now judging the poor that do work, and multiple jobs.

America’s economy is stagnant because BIG government in Washington and several States run by leftist Democrats tax, regulate redistribute wealth and business is stymied by soooo many unknowns coming from the Obama administration and especially Obama-Care.

When top management keeps raising prices, yet doesn't give the workers raises, the worker can no longer afford the product they are working to make. We have the top keeping everything like the great depression.

“Top Management” can only raise prices relative to competitive prices of the competition. You know absolutely nothing about the economy!!!!! You’re a left-headed whack-job!!!!

 

[Robo]

Wait...are you saying that without competition from foreign businesses, businesses working in America wouldn't outsource and then pocket the difference as increased profits?


Because it sounds like that's what you're saying.

NO! Moron!!! I'm saying that outsourcing is caused by many more factors than simply worker's wages. "Competition" foreign and domestic is a major factor in worker's wages.

 

[Essence]

Oh, there's that thing again, where you say something is simple:

Companies outsource only when the competition from abroad forces them to be more competitive.

And then you say it's complex:

I'm saying that outsourcing is caused by many more factors than simply worker's wages.

If outsourcing is caused "only when the competition from abroad forces them to be more competitive", why are you bringing worker's wages into it at all? Do you have any areas of your life in which you are intellectually consistent?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Wait...are you saying that without competition from foreign businesses, businesses working in America wouldn't outsource and then pocket the difference as increased profits?


Because it sounds like that's what you're saying.

I think you are confusing terms... outsourcing and offshoring jobs can be two different things. Off-shoring is when a US company creates jobs (or moves them) outside of the country... normally these jobs are within that company. Outsourcing is when a US firm uses another company (can be foreign or domestic) to do a portion of the work needed to be done.

 

[Essence]

True, and I get that -- I'm just using the terms that he used to keep from confusing him any more than is necessary.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

True, and I get that -- I'm just using the terms that he used to keep from confusing him any more than is necessary.

fair enough...

 

[Robo]

Oh, there's that thing again, where you say something is simple:



And then you say it's complex:

Simplicity is so very often complexity to fucking idiots like you.

If outsourcing is caused "only when the competition from abroad forces them to be more competitive", why are you bringing worker's wages into it at all?

I didn’t initiate the “worker’s wages” thingy, your twin moron AP did, but of course you ignore the facts.

Do you have any areas of your life in which you are intellectually consistent?

Do you have any areas in your fucking pea-brain that allow you to make a rational and relevant argument about anything?

 

[Truth Detector]

Basic economy is easy to understand. Advanced economy is impossible to completely understand.

An economy that can produce goods that itself and other countries can buy is a good economy. This is what we use to have.

An economy that outsources jobs and tries to keep workers from having a decent living wage with benefits that match the success of the company will ruin any country. This is what we have now.

Think of our money like a bathtub Ross Perot style. Keep the money flowing in the same tub. And try to get more money/water into that tub. Some water is less useful/used but all the water counts. Now when we start outsourcing we pull the plug on that bathtub. "You can almost hear the sucking sound of jobs leaving America".

WORKING Americans are trying to find jobs. WORKIGN Americans are on Welfare because their jobs won't give them compensation/benefits they deserve from a successful Corporate "TEAM" But this new movement is past judging the poor who don't work, it's now judging the poor that do work, and multiple jobs.

When top management keeps raising prices, yet doesn't give the workers raises, the worker can no longer afford the product they are working to make. We have the top keeping everything like the great depression.

You really are THAT stupid. Did you vote for Obama? I am doing a survey comparing incredibly stupid posts to who that poster voted for. My theory is that people who seem to post really stupid things voted for Obama.

 

[Truth Detector]

In case you were wondering, the correct answer is abso-fucking-lutely no one. The reason why is awful and simple: because we don't understand how market inefficiencies develop. And I'm not talking about price bubbles or any macro crap like that. I'm talking about how essentially every model of the market ever developed assumes that vendors have the magical ability to find the customer willing to pay the highest available price for their goods, and every customer has the magical ability to find the vendor willing to sell their goods at the lowest possible price.

That flat-out doesn't happen, and the fact that it doesn't happen means that every model of the economy based on the idea of market efficiency is flawed. Yet, we continue to base policy that affects billions of people on these models, because, well, they're the best we have. Academics can't even agree on what the models mean, much less how policy will change the results, and yet here we are yammering endlessly at each other about the various interpretations of those models and how they affect our opinions about politics. It's all just a giant mental shell game.

"The efficient market, like the existence of God, is not a falsifiable assumption. Belief in the free market is encouraged because its existence produces the necessary outcomes to support the capitalist model of production. If we wish to reshape our economy we must first see past the smokescreen of economic theory and understand the structure of ideology." Matthew Hutchinson

Another brain dead twit who takes the theory of efficient markets literally. Perhaps it is because you really are THAT stupid?

Market efficiency is not a theory based on perfect information; it is a theory that suggests that millions of private transactions between consumers and suppliers is a more efficient means of allocating scarce resources than centralized authoritarian models based on Socialist or Communist models.

Businesses react to market forces or they fail and are replaced with businesses who can. Failure is a necessary and good thing in market based economies. Unfortunately for dimwitted idealists like you; socialists think they can control these things to ensure that no one fails, no one gets hurt and we all can have equal outcomes based on what they arrogantly presume is best for everyone.

It never occurs to arrogant brain dead leftist ideologues that some people actually choose to be poor or that some are incapable of running a company or that some prefer to just work hourly and have more leisure or home time.

This is why America has become the most successful and prosperous nation in the world. It was blessed by a Constitution that gaurantees liberty and private property rights, free markets with limited ham fisted regulations and vast natural resources.

 

[Truth Detector]

I think you are confusing terms... outsourcing and offshoring jobs can be two different things. Off-shoring is when a US company creates jobs (or moves them) outside of the country... normally these jobs are within that company. Outsourcing is when a US firm uses another company (can be foreign or domestic) to do a portion of the work needed to be done.

I'm quite certain that the dimwit is incapable of comprehending the OBVIOUS.