Maimonides vs. Aristotle

C

Cypress

Well-known member
Beginning in the 9th century, the Jews living in Arab lands came under the influence of Greek philosophy. The writings of Aristotle and Plato, among others, were translated into Arabic and challenged the traditional religious sensibilities of both Jews and Muslims. Aristotle, in particular, posed a threat because of his prestige as the philosopher par excellence and his depiction of a transcendent, unchanging, and uncaring god.

Moses Maimonides (1138–1204) represents the most significant Jewish philosophical response to Aristotelian thought. Jewish philosophy was, in large part, responding to the Intellectual challenge of Aristotle, who held that God is totally transcendent, unchanging, and uncaring.

--> Creation of the world.
A) Aristotle assumed that the world was eternal.

B) Genesis 1 and the Rabbis generally offered a more Platonic version of creation, whereby God fashioned the universe as we know it from pre-existing material.

C) By the Middle Ages, the philosophical stakes became clear. If one agrees with Aristotle’s version of the eternity of the world and the impossibility of divine intervention in the movement of the cosmos, then miracles become impossible.

D) Maimonides argued that Aristotle did not prove that the universe was eternal; therefore, we are free to disagree with what has not been conclusively proven.

E) Maimonides then argues that creation ex nihilo (yesh m’ayin) should be accepted, even without conclusive proof, on the strength of prophecy.


--> Prayer
The god of Aristotle is both uninterested in human prayer and Incapable of responding. A personal relationship with such a god is quite difficult.

Although Maimonides maintains that prayer is a mitzvah, he also Understands that it is a concession to human psychology.

Maimonides then draws the comparison to prayer that is of value only for the pray-er to feel connected to God. But, like Aristotle, Maimonides believes that God is totally
transcendent and uninterested and unmoved by prayer.




--> Source credit: Shai Cherry, Professor of Jewish Thought, Vanderbilt University by
 
Last edited:
Cypress said:
Beginning in the 9th century, the Jews living in Arab lands came under the influence of Greek philosophy. The writings of Aristotle and Plato, among others, were translated into Arabic and challenged the traditional religious sensibilities of both Jews and Muslims. Aristotle, in particular, posed a threat because of his prestige as the philosopher par excellence and his depiction of a transcendent, unchanging, and uncaring god.

Moses Maimonides (1138–1204) represents the most significant Jewish philosophical response to Aristotelian thought. Jewish philosophy was, in large part, responding to the Intellectual challenge of Aristotle, who held that God is totally transcendent, unchanging, and uncaring.

--> Creation of the world.
A) Aristotle assumed that the world was eternal.

B) Genesis 1 and the Rabbis generally offered a more Platonic version of creation, whereby God fashioned the universe as we know it from pre-existing material.

C) By the Middle Ages, the philosophical stakes became clear. If one agrees with Aristotle’s version of the eternity of the world and the impossibility of divine intervention in the movement of the cosmos, then miracles become impossible.

D) Maimonides argued that Aristotle did not prove that the universe was eternal; therefore, we are free to disagree with what has not been conclusively proven.

E) Maimonides then argues that creation ex nihilo (yesh m’ayin) should be accepted, even without conclusive proof, on the strength of prophecy.


--> Prayer
The god of Aristotle is both uninterested in human prayer and Incapable of responding. A personal relationship with such a god is quite difficult.

Although Maimonides maintains that prayer is a mitzvah, he also Understands that it is a concession to human psychology.

Maimonides then draws the comparison to prayer that is of value only for the pray-er to feel connected to God. But, like Aristotle, Maimonides believes that God is totally
transcendent and uninterested and unmoved by prayer.




--> Source credit: Shai Cherry, Professor of Jewish Thought, Vanderbilt University
Click to expand...

So you don't believe God listens to sincere pray!?
 
A parallel debate in modern physics.

In the early 20th century, Einstein and most physicists believed in a stable and unchanging universe of infinite age, because it was more satisfying and "perfect" in a philosophical sense.

By the 1960s, Martin Ryle had conclusive data showing that the universe was evolving and changing, from a beginning point in time..
 
Cypress said:
A parallel debate in modern physics.

In the early 20th century, Einstein and most physicists believed in a stable and unchanging universe of infinite age, because it was more satisfying and "perfect" in a philosophical sense.

By the 1960s, Martin Ryle had conclusive data showing that the universe was evolving and changing, from a beginning point in time..
Click to expand...

What was the trigger to the creation of the physical universe?
 
Maimonides’s major contribution to Jewish life remains the Mishneh Torah, his code of Jewish law. His intention was to compose a book that would guide Jews on how to behave in all situations just by reading the Torah and his code, without having to expend large amounts of time searching through the Talmud. Needless to say, this provocative rationale did not endear Maimonides to many traditional Jews, who feared that people would rely on his code and no longer study the Talmud. Despite sometimes intense opposition, the Mishneh Torah became a standard guide to Jewish practice: It later served as the model for the Shulkhan Arukh, the sixteenth *century code of Jewish law that is still regarded as authoritative by observant Jews.

Maimonides was one of the few Jewish thinkers whose teachings also influenced the non*Jewish world; much of his philosophical writings in the Guide were about God and other theological issues of general, not exclusively Jewish, interest. Thomas Aquinas refers in his writings to “Rabbi Moses,” and shows considerable familiarity with the Guide. In 1985, on the 850th anniversary of Maimonides’s birth, Pakistan and Cuba — which do not recognize Israel — were among the co*sponsors of a UNESCO conference in Paris on Maimonides. Vitali Naumkin, a Soviet scholar, observed on this occasion: “Maimonides is perhaps the only philosopher in the Middle Ages, perhaps even now, who symbolizes a confluence of four cultures: Greco*-Roman, Arab, Jewish, and Western.”

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/moses-maimonides-rambam
 
These exchanges on God and religion always baffle me, why, you either have faith or you don't, there is no reason involved, intellectual understanding, it is all about beliefs, not complicated
 
archives said:
These exchanges on God and religion always baffle me, why, you either have faith or you don't, there is no reason involved, intellectual understanding, it is all about beliefs, not complicated
Click to expand...

Agree. Why I started a thread about the difference between philosophy and religion. (Which the religionists took over).
 
archives said:
These exchanges on God and religion always baffle me, why, you either have faith or you don't, there is no reason involved, intellectual understanding, it is all about beliefs, not complicated
Click to expand...

We all claim to have a belief in justice, equality, fairness, but we can't agree on what it actually really means in tangible terms.

Debating metaphysical concepts and issues is part of what it means to be a thinking human being. Just my two cents
 
guno said:
Maimonides’s major contribution to Jewish life remains the Mishneh Torah, his code of Jewish law. His intention was to compose a book that would guide Jews on how to behave in all situations just by reading the Torah and his code, without having to expend large amounts of time searching through the Talmud. Needless to say, this provocative rationale did not endear Maimonides to many traditional Jews, who feared that people would rely on his code and no longer study the Talmud. Despite sometimes intense opposition, the Mishneh Torah became a standard guide to Jewish practice: It later served as the model for the Shulkhan Arukh, the sixteenth *century code of Jewish law that is still regarded as authoritative by observant Jews.

Maimonides was one of the few Jewish thinkers whose teachings also influenced the non*Jewish world; much of his philosophical writings in the Guide were about God and other theological issues of general, not exclusively Jewish, interest. Thomas Aquinas refers in his writings to “Rabbi Moses,” and shows considerable familiarity with the Guide. In 1985, on the 850th anniversary of Maimonides’s birth, Pakistan and Cuba — which do not recognize Israel — were among the co*sponsors of a UNESCO conference in Paris on Maimonides. Vitali Naumkin, a Soviet scholar, observed on this occasion: “Maimonides is perhaps the only philosopher in the Middle Ages, perhaps even now, who symbolizes a confluence of four cultures: Greco*-Roman, Arab, Jewish, and Western.”

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/moses-maimonides-rambam
Click to expand...

He is generally under appreciated it seems.
 
Cypress said:
We all claim to have a belief in justice, equality, fairness, but we can't agree on what it actually really means in tangible terms.

Debating metaphysical concepts and issues is part of what it means to be a thinking human being. Just my two cents
Click to expand...

In the right environment, and always requires individuals who have at least some grasp on what they are talking about
 
archives said:
In the right environment, and always requires individuals who have at least some grasp on what they are talking about
Click to expand...
There has never been a better question in human history than what is the nature and origin of the universe. Whether one looks at it from the perspective of cosmology or of metaphysics.

Aristotle and Einstein thought the universe was eternal, infinite, unchanging.

Maimonides and Martin Ryle thought the universe had an origin at a point in time.


To me, that is an interesting intersection of ideas from great scientific and philosophical minds. At least to me, it is more interesting than the verbal pornography, gossip, and petty grudges posted on this forum daily and hourly.
 
Cypress said:
There has never been a better question in human history than what is the nature and origin of the universe. Whether one looks at it from the perspective of cosmology or of metaphysics.

Aristotle and Einstein thought the universe was eternal, infinite, unchanging.

Maimonides and Martin Ryle thought the universe had an origin at a point in time.


To me, that is an interesting intersection of ideas from great scientific and philosophical minds. At least to me, it is more interesting than the verbal pornography, gossip, and petty grudges posted on this forum daily and hourly.
Click to expand...

Sure it is, although after awhile it often turns into mental masturbation, but this is definitely not the right arena, even if you catch someone who does understand the content it isn't long until it evolves into one way dialogue, one person narrating to the other what he knows
 
archives said:
Sure it is, although after awhile it often turns into mental masturbation, but this is definitely not the right arena, even if you catch someone who does understand the content it isn't long until it evolves into one way dialogue, one person narrating to the other what he knows
Click to expand...

It's just my contribution to improve the forum.

For those who enjoy pornography and gossip, I'll leave the dirty work to them.

One thing I zero in on is that Einstein originally believed in an unchanging, eternal universe like Aristotle did -- simply because it seemed more pleasing and satisfactory from a philosophical perspective.

The lesson is you cannot remove metaphysics and philosophy even from Science. Science isn't just pure reason and pure data. Metaphysics and philosophizing creeps into science despite our best attempts to assume humans can be perfected as beings of pure reason
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top