McCain supporters: Russia Backs Independence of Breakaway Georgian Areas

[blackascoal]

.. ready to go to war over these provinces .. WHO CELEBRATE THEIR INDEPENDENCE FROM GEORGIA AND THE RUSSIAN MOVE?

McCain is ready.

Russia Backs Independence of Breakaway Georgian Areas

MOSCOW — Russia on Tuesday formally recognized the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, the two enclaves in Georgia whose separatist aspirations stirred the fierce conflict this month.

The step, which goes beyond Russia’s military operation and is intended to consolidate its military success into permanent political gains, is viewed as highly provocative in the West, which has insisted on the preservation of Georgia’s territorial integrity.

It drew immediate condemnation from the United States and its allies.

Acting a day after Russia’s Parliament unanimously supported the enclaves’ request to secede, President Dmitri A. Medvedev announced that he had signed decrees recognizing the two territories’ independence. He blamed the Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili, for causing the bloodshed and forcing Moscow’s hand.

He said it was clear that the warring sides could never again live together, and South Ossetia and Abkhazia had to be independent.

“This is not an easy choice, but it is the only way to save the lives of people,” Mr. Medvedev said in a nationally televised address.

Speaking on a trip to the Middle East, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called the move “regrettable,” The Associated Press reported. France, which holds the presidency of the European Union, said it "strongly condemns this decision."

The office of the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, said in a statement: “This is contrary to the principles of the independence, the sovereignty and the territorial integrity of Georgia.”

-- more at link

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/27/world/europe/27russia.html?hp

 

[PES Activist]

This whole sorry episode has to be de-escalated before we tip into a truly disatrous confrontation between the principals.

Today we have US troops patrolling (the TV news called it "visiting") the Georgian town of Gori, parts of which remain occupied by the Russian army. In addition, US warships (sorry that should be US humanitarian assistance) are heading for the Russian-occupied, Georgian port of Poti. Having US and Russian military in such very close proximity is a recipe for disaster.

Both sides need to step back from this confrontation. Russia needs to remove its troops from Georgia and limit its support for Abkhazia and South Ossetian seperatism. The language used by Russian and Georgian politicians in particular needs to be toned down and the EU and the US need to facilitate urgent dialogue between the parties.

There is no gain for any of us in allowing the situation in Georgia escalate back out of control, especially now that US troops and warships are in the region. This would serve none of us any good.

 

[blackascoal]

This whole sorry episode has to be de-escalated before we tip into a truly disatrous confrontation between the principals.

Today we have US troops patrolling (the TV news called it "visiting") the Georgian town of Gori, parts of which remain occupied by the Russian army. In addition, US warships (sorry that should be US humanitarian assistance) are heading for the Russian-occupied, Georgian port of Poti. Having US and Russian military in such very close proximity is a recipe for disaster.

Both sides need to step back from this confrontation. Russia needs to remove its troops from Georgia and limit its support for Abkhazia and South Ossetian seperatism. The language used by Russian and Georgian politicians in particular needs to be toned down and the EU and the US need to facilitate urgent dialogue between the parties.

There is no gain for any of us in allowing the situation in Georgia escalate back out of control, especially now that US troops and warships are in the region. This would serve none of us any good.

The Russians are protecting their backyard .. just as America does.

America would not allow ABM's in Cuba, why should Russia allow them?

The citizens of these provinces celebrate their independence from Georgia .. WHO STARTED THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

The US needs to back off.

 

[Chapdog]

Georgia was being a trader to Russia and siding with NATO.. Russia treated them like a trader should be treated. End of story.

Glad that country still has some balls.

 

[PES Activist]

The Russians are protecting their backyard .. just as America does.

America would not allow ABM's in Cuba, why should Russia allow them?

The citizens of these provinces celebrate their independence from Georgia .. WHO STARTED THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

The US needs to back off.

I take you point, blackascoal, about Georgia's role in sparking this dangerous confrontation, however, I'm no more about to accept Russian hegemony in the Caucasus or in Ukraine and Belarus, than I am about to accept US hegemony in the Carribean.

This idea of "back-yards" or what the Russians call the "near abroad" is the latest expression of the "Great Game", which was played by European powers in the 19th century. Back then it led to truly dreadful suffering and today we see similar outcomes.

No nation has the right to determine the foreign policy of another, but equally no country sets its policies in a vacuum. We all need to be aware of teh sensitivities and legitimate concerns of our neighbours - Georgia for security and territorial integrity and Russia for a neighbourhood populated by partners not putative enemies.

It is essential that we de-escalate this confrontation in the Caucasus. We cannot abandon Georgia, Abkhazia or South Ossettia to the latest twist in the "Great Game".

 

[blackascoal]

I take you point, blackascoal, about Georgia's role in sparking this dangerous confrontation, however, I'm no more about to accept Russian hegemony in the Caucasus or in Ukraine and Belarus, than I am about to accept US hegemony in the Carribean.

This idea of "back-yards" or what the Russians call the "near abroad" is the latest expression of the "Great Game", which was played by European powers in the 19th century. Back then it led to truly dreadful suffering and today we see similar outcomes.

No nation has the right to determine the foreign policy of another, but equally no country sets its policies in a vacuum. We all need to be aware of teh sensitivities and legitimate concerns of our neighbours - Georgia for security and territorial integrity and Russia for a neighbourhood populated by partners not putative enemies.

It is essential that we de-escalate this confrontation in the Caucasus. We cannot abandon Georgia, Abkhazia or South Ossettia to the latest twist in the "Great Game".

Two problems with your sound argument.

1. The people of Abkhazia or South Ossettia are celebrating their independence from Georgia.

2. We are not the world's policeforce.

Why did the President of Georgia start a conflict he was bound to lose?

Answer that question and you'll be closer to the truth of what can be done.

 

[PES Activist]

Two problems with your sound argument.

1. The people of Abkhazia or South Ossettia are celebrating their independence from Georgia.

2. We are not the world's policeforce.

Why did the President of Georgia start a conflict he was bound to lose?

Answer that question and you'll be closer to the truth of what can be done.

Thanks for your response, blackascoal. The celebrations of Abkhazian and South Ossettian independence are important, not least because they demonstrate that the reckless attempt by President Saakashvili to re-establish Georgian sovereignty over Sth Ossettia by force has backfired spectacularly.

However, the celebrations in Abkhazia and South Ossettia are not the final word on this matter, any more than similar celebrations in 1974 in Northern Cyprus by the Turkish population were the last word there. Any sustainable resolution of this inter-ethnic conflict in the Caucasus will depend on the negotiated consent of the seperatists as well as the Georgians. Russia and the EU can play important mediating roles in these negotiations, but the first priority must be to de-escalate the situation and return, as far as we are able, to the situation prior to the Georgian assault on Tskhinvali.

I don't understand the point about being the world's policeman. I am a European and don't expect the USA to commit military assets to the Caucasus, indeed I would rather the EU led on this matter.

As for your question about Saakashvilli's motives for launching the attack on South Ossettia, I am at a complete loss to explain this. His Defence Minister was quoted this week as saying that they launched their attack on Tskhinvali in the belief that Russia would not launch a counter-offensive. I find it hard to believe that a government could show such astonishing poor judgement, but then again the mistakes and over-optimistic expectations for the invasion of Iraq would suggest that this is a not uncommon problem.