Memo to Dems

[Cypress]

Dem Politicians: Get a life, and get off your obsession with Hillary's "tears", her emotions, and her "phoniness".

It's bad enough when Chris Mathews, Maureen Dowd, and other misogynistic blowhards in the MSM enage in navel gazing about a female candidate's alledged b*tchiness, clothing, and her "carpetbagging" on her husband's name.

But, when frickin' Obama's campaign adviser says we need to "analyze Hillary's tears", and suggests that they're phony, we've waded knee deep into bullsh*t and nonsense.

Even Edwards made idiotic comments, questioning hillary's ability to be president because she choked up for five seconds. Bad move dude. Utterly stupid.

Shut the f*ck up Dems, and quit dog piling over nonsense. Stick to the issues........you might just throw this election to hillary,

Markos sums it up quite nicely.......

Memo to the anti-Clinton brigades

by kos
Wed Jan 09, 2008 at 07:02:21 AM PST

Hillary is my least favorite of the viable candidates on substantive grounds, and I'll be voting for Barack Obama here pretty soon here in California via absentee ballot. The second-to-last thing I want is Mark Penn and Terry McAluiffe anywhere near the White House. (The last thing? Another Republican administration.)

But the more assholish her detractors behave, the more you help her. The way she was treated the past few days in New Hampshire was a disgrace, and likely a large reason for her surprise victory. So keep attacking her for bullshit reasons, and you'll be generating more and more sympathy votes for her. Obama's "you're likable enough" was likely worth 2-3 points all by its lonesome self.

In May 2006 I wrote this in the Washington Post:

In person, Clinton is one of the warmest politicians I've ever met, but her advisers have stripped what personality she has, hiding it from the public. Some of that may be a product of her team's legendary paranoia, somewhat understandable given the knives out for her. But what remains is a heartless, passionless machine, surrounded by the very people who ground down the activist base in the 1990s and have continued to hold the party's grassroots in utter contempt.

In New Hampshire, her campaign seems to have realized that there's value in giving people a look at that personality. The decision to open up may have been "calculated", but what's behind the steel curtain is a genuinely warm, likable human being. I know this from first-hand experience.

The more she's attacked on personal grounds, the more sympathy that real person will generate, the more votes she'll win from people sending a message to the media and her critics that they've gone way over the line of common decency. You underestimate that sympathy at your own peril. If I found myself half-rooting for her given the crap that was being flung at her, is it any wonder that women turned out in droves to send a message that sexist double-standards were unacceptable? Sure, it took one look at Terry McAuliffe's mug to bring me back down to earth, but most people don't know or care who McAuliffe is. They see people beating the shit out of Clinton for the wrong reasons, they get angry, and they lash back the only way they can -- by voting for her.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/9/93912/04225/727/433534

 

[LadyT]

Seriously. People need to move on. How many crocadile tears has bush managed to pony up at veterans events. And I think we all know he's full of it.

 

[Chapdog]

Those tears.. that day in the café.. fake or not.. was the reason she pulled a Tie/Win in New Hampshire.

Well either that or the pre-programmed Diebold machines.

 

[Onceler]

Those tears.. that day in the café.. fake or not.. was the reason she pulled a Tie/Win in New Hampshire.

Well either that or the pre-programmed Diebold machines.

I think the NH race is hard to dissect. I do think it helped for people to see that side of Hillary, but I think there was some media backlash there, also. There was something at work where voters were basically saying that it was too early to annoint Obama as the party's savior & the next President, and in a way, that's not such a bad thing. The race would have been over if he won NH handily, and I think a lot of voters there felt that responsibility.

It's kind of silly to talk about fraud or corruption as far as the actual vote. I saw Zogby interviewed yesterday, and he said the hard pre-election #'s that were reported did not reflect other aspects of the polls, like the fact that Obama support was soft, there were still many undecideds & that independents might bolt for McCain. All of the polls had Barak's final # just about right.

 

[Cancel7]

Those tears.. that day in the café.. fake or not.. was the reason she pulled a Tie/Win in New Hampshire.

Well either that or the pre-programmed Diebold machines.

No, it wasn’t at all. This bullshit that has taken over the common narrative, and by common, I mean the lowest common denominator, is 100% wrong. This was not a sympathy vote by and large. It was a feminist vote. Read this, written by a young feminist at Salon. It’s one of the best written of the many, many feminist pieces which have been written and published this week. This was never about sympathy, this was old and young feminists, who have had a split, coming together in one moment where they all realized, shit, this ain’t about Hillary. This is about, are we going to sit back and let a handful of powerful, older, white males, run a highly qualified woman out of the presidential campaign, and by doing so, ensure a woman does not sit in the oval office for yet another generation? And women, by and large said, fuck no. Oh, no you don’t. She'll be voted in, or she'll be voted out. But it won't be up to a handful of powerful white men. And they stood.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2008/01/09/hillary_nh/index_np.html?source=f=h_top

 

[Chapdog]

No, it wasn’t at all. This bullshit that has taken over the common narrative, and by common, I mean the lowest common denominator, is 100% wrong. This was not a sympathy vote by and large. It was a feminist vote. Read this, written by a young feminist at Salon. It’s one of the best written of the many, many feminist pieces which have been written and published this week. This was never about sympathy, this was old and young feminists, who have had a split, coming together in one moment where they all realized, shit, this ain’t about Hillary. This is about, are we going to sit back and let a handful of powerful, older, white males, run a highly qualified woman out of the presidential campaign, and by doing so, ensure a woman does not sit in the oval office for yet another generation? And women, by and large said, fuck no. Oh, no you don’t. She'll be voted in, or she'll be voted out. But it won't be up to a handful of powerful white men. And they stood.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2008/01/09/hillary_nh/index_np.html?source=f=h_top

I agree that it was women who propped her up. but this isn't a race for feminism. this is a race for putting the best candidate into the white house. Hillary decided shes going to play the sex card.. poor womans plight. its a scam for votes.. just like if obama plays the black man race card. I wish they would stick to issues.

 

[Onceler]

I only saw some of the NH debate, and missed the part where Obama said "you're likable enough, Hillary." I have read a few people say that the way he said that was really cold, and hurt him; did anyone catch that?

 

[Cancel7]

I agree that it was women who propped her up. but this isn't a race for feminism. this is a race for putting the best candidate into the white house. Hillary decided shes going to play the sex card.. poor womans plight. its a scam for votes.. just like if obama plays the black man race card. I wish they would stick to issues.

Chap, seriously, you're a total sexist. I know you don't think you are, but you are.

And what you need to understand is one thing. You're never going to get it, and neither is SF. But, no one is going to ask you. No one cares if you get it.

I think there are maybe 3 or 4 men on here who might get it. (and even then, probably not the same way a woman is going to get it) I'm actually not sure if DH is a guy or not. Anyway, you're not one of them, but relax it's ok. It totally puts you in the overwhelming majority of men, and not just here.

 

[Cancel7]

I only saw some of the NH debate, and missed the part where Obama said "you're likable enough, Hillary." I have read a few people say that the way he said that was really cold, and hurt him; did anyone catch that?

I saw it. I thought it made him look really arrogant, but I don’t include Obama or Edwards in what happened here. This was about men like Chris Matthews. You should go to media matters Onceler and take a look at his shit all together, and maybe you will get a grasp on just how enraging that was for a lot of people.

But the candidates themselves, I didn’t see anything that would make me think they were acting out of sexism. Look at what happened to Mitt Romney, he had five of them on him, I mean, it was pathetic, even I felt sorry for him. That’s politics, and I don’t of any woman who wants to tie the hands of male candidates when they are running against a woman and say, you have to treat her nice. That’s completely anti-feminist on its face.

But for pure “likability” which for whatever reason is the holy grail of presidential politics – Obama had a bad moment there. He looked like a prick, but not a sexist. I don’t think he’s a prick though. I think he just had a stupid minute.

 

[Cypress]

I think the NH race is hard to dissect. I do think it helped for people to see that side of Hillary, but I think there was some media backlash there, also. There was something at work where voters were basically saying that it was too early to annoint Obama as the party's savior & the next President, and in a way, that's not such a bad thing. The race would have been over if he won NH handily, and I think a lot of voters there felt that responsibility.

It's kind of silly to talk about fraud or corruption as far as the actual vote. I saw Zogby interviewed yesterday, and he said the hard pre-election #'s that were reported did not reflect other aspects of the polls, like the fact that Obama support was soft, there were still many undecideds & that independents might bolt for McCain. All of the polls had Barak's final # just about right.

I doubt there was any fraud. Hillary won fair and square.

I think there were a lot of undecideds that swung her way, in the last 24 hours.

I think the issue that Markos at Dailykos mentions, is only important around the margins. It may be only worth a few percent of the vote. Who knows, 2 or 3%, but there it is.

 

[Onceler]

I saw Chris Matthews; I was stunned. I thought he was way out of line, and I just thought that factually, what he was saying was flat-out wrong. I didn't see any connection at all between Bill's affair & Hillary's Senate run.

I read about Obama's comment in Charles Krauthammer's recent column; there's a guy who I usually can't stand, but he made a much bigger deal about the comment. He thought it was a window to the kind of person Obama really is, and I also read Peggy Noonan saying that he is clearly cold, and a little too cool for his own good.

That's something that I worry about with Obama. I want it all with a President: smart, genuine, communicator, reasonable, principled, open-minded, and definitely someone with a heart. Given the current nature of American politics, it's probably better to settle with someone who at least has a couple of those qualities.

 

[Cancel7]

I saw Chris Matthews; I was stunned. I thought he was way out of line, and I just thought that factually, what he was saying was flat-out wrong. I didn't see any connection at all between Bill's affair & Hillary's Senate run.

I read about Obama's comment in Charles Krauthammer's recent column; there's a guy who I usually can't stand, but he made a much bigger deal about the comment. He thought it was a window to the kind of person Obama really is, and I also read Peggy Noonan saying that he is clearly cold, and a little too cool for his own good.

That's something that I worry about with Obama. I want it all with a President: smart, genuine, communicator, reasonable, principled, open-minded, and definitely someone with a heart. Given the current nature of American politics, it's probably better to settle with someone who at least has a couple of those qualities.

The thing with Obama that I would be careful about, and I know you probably think that I am a crazy leftist who sees a racist or sexist under any bed, but I don’t know, this is just how I think…anyway, you have to be careful listening to any of those right wing jerks, and even really, any traditional white male over 50, no matter what his politics are. Because they might very well have that backlash thinking going on inside of themselves that they aren’t going to even know about, or care about, frankly. I mean, who is more arrogant than Bush Onceler? Did we ever hear Charlie fretting over it? No. But maybe a black guy comes along who maybe is a bit arrogant, after all he’s the elite this guy, intellectually and otherwise, why shouldn’t he be a bit arrogant? Don’t you have to be a little arrogant to run for President? But some white people might get a feeling inside of, hey who does this black guy think he is? He’s supposed to be grateful to us for giving him this chance, bowing and scraping. So I kind of dismiss their nonsense out of hand. But, do I think Obama is a bit on the cool side? Yeah. So is Hillary. But people who know her say she is very warm. So it’s a difficult think to judge, and probably not the most important thing. We’ve had bush sobbing all over the place, and he’s a murderer.

 

[Chapdog]

Chap, seriously, you're a total sexist. I know you don't think you are, but you are.

And what you need to understand is one thing. You're never going to get it, and neither is SF. But, no one is going to ask you. No one cares if you get it.

I think there are maybe 3 or 4 men on here who might get it. (and even then, probably not the same way a woman is going to get it) I'm actually not sure if DH is a guy or not. Anyway, you're not one of them, but relax it's ok. It totally puts you in the overwhelming majority of men, and not just here.

I flat out reject your labeling me a sexist:
Sexism is commonly considered to be discrimination and/or hatred towards people based on their sex rather than their individual merits, but can also refer to any and all systemic differentiations based on the sex of the individuals.

If anything your general labeling of white men over 50 is far more sexist then anything i have ever said.

 

[Cancel7]

I flat out reject your labeling me a sexist:
Sexism is commonly considered to be discrimination and/or hatred towards people based on their sex rather than their individual merits, but can also refer to any and all systemic differentiations based on the sex of the individuals.

If anything your general labeling of white men over 50 is far more sexist then anything i have ever said.

Chap, the fact that you could view this entire issue as women playing the “poor me” card, shows you as a sexist. I know you don’t understand that. And don’t think I’ve missed your posts about weak women dragging men down either. I didn’t.

And as far as my post about a “handful of powerful white men over 50” not being allowed to decide who becomes President…tell me, Chris Matthews, Rush Limbaugh, Tim Russert, Don Imus, Keith Olbermann, Sean Hannity…they are what?

White women under 30?

LOL. You just don’t get Chap.

 

[Onceler]

"We’ve had bush sobbing all over the place, and he’s a murderer."

Excellent point.

 

[Chapdog]

Chap, the fact that you could view this entire issue as women playing the “poor me” card, shows you as a sexist. I know you don’t understand that. And don’t think I’ve missed your posts about weak women dragging men down either. I didn’t.

And as far as my post about a “handful of powerful white men over 50” not being allowed to decide who becomes President…tell me, Chris Matthews, Rush Limbaugh, Tim Russert, Don Imus, Keith Olbermann, Sean Hannity…they are what?

White women under 30?

LOL. You just don’t get Chap.

she is playing the sex card. havent you paid attention to her last weeks campaining? shes gone nuclear with it. just today:

Clinton and her busload of traveling press moved from there to the popular local Mexican restaurant Lindo Michoacan, where a "roundtable" that was actually square passed a microphone around to tell her people's concerns about the mortgage crisis and foreclosures. She took notes and munched on tortilla chips.

In broken English, one woman told Clinton how she wasn't making money as a broker anymore.

"I have no income at all," she said. "So how will I survive?"

Choking up with emotion, the woman said, "In my neighborhood, there are brand-new homes, but the value is nothing. I'm glad you are here so I can tell you, because you're going to be the president, I know."

A man shouted through an opening in the wall that his wife was illegal.

"No woman is illegal," Clinton said, to cheers.
http://www.lvrj.com/news/13702902.html

 

[Cancel7]

she is playing the sex card. havent you paid attention to her last weeks campaining? shes gone nuclear with it. just today:

Clinton and her busload of traveling press moved from there to the popular local Mexican restaurant Lindo Michoacan, where a "roundtable" that was actually square passed a microphone around to tell her people's concerns about the mortgage crisis and foreclosures. She took notes and munched on tortilla chips.

In broken English, one woman told Clinton how she wasn't making money as a broker anymore.

"I have no income at all," she said. "So how will I survive?"

Choking up with emotion, the woman said, "In my neighborhood, there are brand-new homes, but the value is nothing. I'm glad you are here so I can tell you, because you're going to be the president, I know."

A man shouted through an opening in the wall that his wife was illegal.

"No woman is illegal," Clinton said, to cheers.
http://www.lvrj.com/news/13702902.html

How the f is that playing the sex card?

Listen, your first problem is a serious case of Clinton derangement syndrome – DH had that totally nailed. Your second problem, is that you’re a sexist. And just so people don’t think I think everyone is a sexist, I actually think that SF suffers solely from Clinton Derangement Syndrome. You’ve got both going on, but because you are probably the worst case of CDS that we see on this board, not everybody recognizes your sexism, but Chap…I do. Sorry. I’m not slamming you, I don’t dislike you or anything like that. That’s just how I see it.

 

[Chapdog]

How the f is that playing the sex card?

Listen, your first problem is a serious case of Clinton derangement syndrome – DH had that totally nailed. Your second problem, is that you’re a sexist. And just so people don’t think I think everyone is a sexist, I actually think that SF suffers solely from Clinton Derangement Syndrome. You’ve got both going on, but because you are probably the worst case of CDS that we see on this board, not everybody recognizes your sexism, but Chap…I do. Sorry. I’m not slamming you, I don’t dislike you or anything like that. That’s just how I see it.

its your opinion. I think your a sexist and thats my opinion. You are defending this shifty crook based on fact shes a woman... and then disregarding all criticism of her on the basis that because shes a woman any man saying negative things about her is a sexist. Im not buying it and i call reverse sexism. I have no problem voting for a woman if she happens to be the best candidate. Just like i have no problem voting for a black man if hes the best candidate.

You forget i worked most of my career in the financial industry as a financial analyst. I have almost always been one of the few men in all of my groups.

 

[Cancel7]

"You are defending this shifty crook based on fact shes a woman... and then disregarding all criticism of her on the basis that because shes a woman any man saying negative things about her is a sexist."

Chap that's just false on its face. Not only have I not disregarded all criticism of her, I criticise her all of the time myself. I'm not even voting for her in the primary, so stop being stupid.

And I’ve said many times I am fully aware that many men who don’t support Hillary are not sexists. But I can tell the ones who are.

 

[Cypress]

I agree that it was women who propped her up. but this isn't a race for feminism. this is a race for putting the best candidate into the white house. Hillary decided shes going to play the sex card.. poor womans plight. its a scam for votes.. just like if obama plays the black man race card. I wish they would stick to issues.

This is BS chap.

Hillary didn't "decide to play the sex card".

The MSM media, and party hacks and pundits, decided to dog pile her. Hold her to a different standard. And they've been doing it for years.

Your president got elected, largely, because he looked like he was a regular dude you "could have a beer with". So, I'm feeling no sympathy for any bush voters whining about reasons women voted for Hillary.

Personally, I think at least a subset voted for her at the last minute because they were pissed. And I think voting against sexism is a tad bit more of a valid reason, that voting for a guy you could have a budweiser with.

I don't think its the best reason in the world to vote for hillary. But, I can understand it. But beyond being pissed, I think women vote for hillary in large numbers, because they also percieve her to be good on women's issues and issues that women generically care about. Don't discount her, and don't write her off. She's a great politician, a competent and qualified senator. In my view, she ain't no worse policy wise than Joe Biden or Barak Obama, broadly speaking. But, I have my own tactical policy reasons for not wanting her to be the nominee.