Niggardly controversy

Don Quixote

cancer survivor
Contributor
"Niggardly" (noun: "niggard") is an adjective meaning "stingy" or "miserly", related to the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_language"]Norwegian[/ame] verb nigle. It is cognate with "[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niggling"]niggling[/ame]", meaning "petty" or "unimportant", as in "the niggling details".
"Nigger" derives from the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language"]Spanish[/ame]/[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_language"]Portuguese[/ame] word negro, meaning "black", and probably also the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_language"]French[/ame] nègre, which is likewise a racist insult derived from negro (the ordinary French word for "black" being noir). Both negro and noir (and therefore also nègre and nigger) ultimately come from nigrum, the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accusative_case"]accusative[/ame] form of the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin"]Latin[/ame] word niger, meaning "black".:pke:
 
"Niggardly" (noun: "niggard") is an adjective meaning "stingy" or "miserly", related to the Norwegian verb nigle. It is cognate with "niggling", meaning "petty" or "unimportant", as in "the niggling details".
"Nigger" derives from the Spanish/Portuguese word negro, meaning "black", and probably also the French nègre, which is likewise a racist insult derived from negro (the ordinary French word for "black" being noir). Both negro and noir (and therefore also nègre and nigger) ultimately come from nigrum, the accusative form of the Latin word niger, meaning "black".:pke:

Sorry sir. No disrespect intended. I'm just a white guy who went to high school in East Oakland and was one of a few "cracker" white guys on the basketball team (one of the best in the state I might add). I was called the 'N bomb' so many times that the word lost meaning to me. I know it is a word not to be taken lightly. But when your black friends say "what's up nigga" to you a thousand times or so it tends to lose its hurt or true meaning. Occasionaly it still slips out. So no disrespect intended sir.
 
Sorry sir. No disrespect intended. I'm just a white guy who went to high school in East Oakland and was one of a few "cracker" white guys on the basketball team (one of the best in the state I might add). I was called the 'N bomb' so many times that the word lost meaning to me. I know it is a word not to be taken lightly. But when your black friends say "what's up nigga" to you a thousand times or so it tends to lose its hurt or true meaning. Occasionaly it still slips out. So no disrespect intended sir.

ca

none taken - i was born and raised as a wasp - it was only later when i moved out into the real world that my 'real' education started

we lived in pacoima and the city of san fernando for several years where we were the only anglo family for miles

the place where i suffered the most discrimination was of all places hawaii

i was referred to as that dirty hippie commie anarchist by the 'straights'

i had an unusual experience when i had an occasion to take a bus from downtown honolulu and i was the only occidental on the bus and a full head taller than the tallest person on the bus

ever been on a bus full of people studiously not looking at you - weird
 
ca

none taken - i was born and raised as a wasp - it was only later when i moved out into the real world that my 'real' education started

we lived in pacoima and the city of san fernando for several years where we were the only anglo family for miles

the place where i suffered the most discrimination was of all places hawaii

i was referred to as that dirty hippie commie anarchist by the 'straights'

i had an unusual experience when i had an occasion to take a bus from downtown honolulu and i was the only occidental on the bus and a full head taller than the tallest person on the bus

ever been on a bus full of people studiously not looking at you - weird

I went out with my friends back in high school from the basketball team. As you might imagine the basketball team is tall and me at 6' was not that tall in the group. At the time I didn't think much of race but often is was a half dozen of us and I would be the only white person there. I didn't think much of it at the time but in retrospect it was a rare thing.
 
I went out with my friends back in high school from the basketball team. As you might imagine the basketball team is tall and me at 6' was not that tall in the group. At the time I didn't think much of race but often is was a half dozen of us and I would be the only white person there. I didn't think much of it at the time but in retrospect it was a rare thing.

ca

sometimes life hands us good experiences, enjoy :clink:
 
Not sure what the point of this thread is supposed to be.

Irrespective of where the orgin of the word comes from, it doesn't make it any less offensive.
 
BAC - I think it's about killing a word. And by "kill" I don't mean burying it. I mean flensing it.

I think so anyway.
 
Not sure what the point of this thread is supposed to be.

Irrespective of where the orgin of the word comes from, it doesn't make it any less offensive.

I am confused about this thread as well. If the point of the thread is that niggardly is not offensive, then I agree. If the point of the thread is that the n-word is offensive, I agree.
 
Maybe it was one of those vocabulary expansion threads to teach some (you know there are those who didn't know) what the definition of niggardly was. Ge whiz, if I used that word in conversation around here I'd get castigated for it simply because it sounds so much like the N word and folks have no clue what it means.
 
Not sure what the point of this thread is supposed to be.

Irrespective of where the orgin of the word comes from, it doesn't make it any less offensive.

why is the word offensive - because it sounds similar to a word that is offensive? even though the accent is different and they are spelled differently? niggard vs nigger

should the word kite be banned because it sounds like kike

is the science of philology to be discarded and lost because it is not politically correct?

...from the Oxford English Dictionary

Philology

1. Love of learning and literature; the branch of knowledge that deals with the historical, linguistic, interpretative, and critical aspects of literature; literary or classical scholarship. Now chiefly U.S.
By the late 19th cent. this general sense had become rare, but it was revived, principally in the United States, in the early 20th cent. For a fuller discussion of this, see A. Morpurgo Davies Hist. Linguistics (1998) 4 I. 22. 1522 J. SKELTON Why come ye nat to Court in Compl. Eng. Poems (1983) 292 Nor of philosophy, Nor of philology, Nor of good pollycy, Nor of astronomy. 1612 J. SELDEN in M. Drayton Poly-olbion I. Pref. sig. A4, This later age..hath, in our greatest Latine Critiques..so receiued that Saturnian Language, that, to Students in Philology, it is now grown familiar. a1661 T. FULLER Worthies (1662) I. 26 Philology properly is Terse and Polite Learning, melior literatura... But we take it in the larger notion, as inclusive of all human liberal Studies. 1669 T. GALE Court Gentiles I. I. x. 50 Philologie, according to its original, and primitive import..implies an universal love, or respect to human Literature. 1702 C. MATHER Magnalia Christi II. v. 18/1 Such Philology as that of Suidas and Hesychius. 1776 G. CAMPBELL Philos. of Rhetoric I. I. v. 150 All the branches of philology, such as history, civil, ecclesiastic, and literary; grammar, languages, jurisprudence, and criticism. 1818 H. HALLAM View Europe Middle Ages IX. ii, Philology, or the principles of good taste, degenerated through the prevalence of school-logic. 1892 Athenæum 25 June 816/1 The fact that philology is not a mere matter of grammar, but is in the largest sense a master-science, whose duty is to present to us the whole of ancient life, and to give archæology its just place by the side of literature. 1922 O. JESPERSEN Lang. iii. 64 In this book I shall use the word ‘philology’ in its continental sense, which is often rendered in English by the vague word ‘scholarship’, meaning thereby the study of the specific culture of one nation. 1947 E. H. STURTEVANT Introd. Ling. Sci. i. 7 Philology is a word with a wide range of meaning. I use it here to designate the study of written documents. 1980 Yale Rev. Winter 312 Philology meant, and still ought to mean, the general study of literature. 2004 Hispanic Rev. 72 442 The bewildering intertextuality that has become the very essence of modern philology.


please note that the word nygardis (see below) is used in the bible c1384


Niggard


A. n. 1. a. A mean, stingy, or parsimonious person; a miser; a person who only grudgingly parts with, spends, or uses up anything. Also in extended use with reference to emotion, etc.
alpha.gif
c1384 Bible (Wycliffite, E.V.) (Douce 369(2)) 1 Cor. vi. 10 Neither lecchours..nether coueitouse men, or nygardis..schulen weelde the kyngdom of God. a1393 GOWER Confessio Amantis (Fairf.) V. 4850 This Viola largesce hath take, And the nygard sche hath forsake. c1400 (c1378) LANGLAND Piers Plowman (Laud) B. xv. 136 He was a nygarde that no good my
ygh.gif
te aspare. c1450 J. CAPGRAVE Life St. Katherine (Arun. 396) I. 883 We shul fare elles as these nygardes [v.r. negardes] doo, ley vp here gold and [euyr] whil thei spare. 1483 CAXTON tr. Caton E vij b, Men saye comynlye that the nygarde expendeth more than the lyberalle. 1548 Hall's Vnion: Edward IV f. ccxviiv, An extreme nigard, and a couetous extorcioner. ?1577 J. NORTHBROOKE Spiritus est Vicarius Christi: Treat. Dicing To Rdr. sig. A.iiijv, If a man will not dice, and play, then he is a nigard and a miser, and no good fellow. 1636 T. HEYWOOD Loves Mistresse (1640) III. i, Churle beauty, beautious nigard, thus I'le chide, Why didst thou from mine eyes this glory hide? 1710 W. CONGREVE Eleventh Satire of Juvenal in Wks. III. 939 If Fortune has a Nigard been to thee, Devote thy self to Thrift, not Luxury.
beta.gif
a1400 tr. Lanfranc Sci. Cirurgie (Ashm. 1396) 8 Be he no glotoun ne noon enuyous ne a negard. a1425 (c1385) CHAUCER Troilus & Criseyde (1987) III. 1379 So perfit joie may no negarde [v.r. nygard] have. c1450 (?c1408) LYDGATE Reson & Sensuallyte 1498 Dame Venus Kan make folkys covetous to spend her good..And the Negarde to be large. c1510 T. MORE tr. G. F. Pico della Mirandola Lyfe J. Picus in Wks. 18/1 The negard then saith to his money.., my god arte thou. a1568 in W. T. Ritchie Bannatyne MS f. 30, Men commondlie callis him ane negart, Sir Gy Brybour is his scheif stewart. 1593 R. FURSE Diary in Trans. Devonshire Assoc. Adv. Sci. (1894) 26 171 Be not an negarde nor yt to lyberall.
gamma.gif
a1400 Prose Life Christ (Pepys) 66 A wikked nigger..
th.gif
at wi
th.gif
helde
th.gif
e ri
ygh.gif
ttes of a widewe.
delta.gif
c1415 CHAUCER Wife of Bath's Tale (Corpus Oxf.) l. 1263 [c1405 Hengwrt Olde and angry] nyggardes [of dispence God sende hem soone verray pestilence]. ?c1430 (c1400) WYCLIF Eng. Wks. (1880) 243 He schal be holde a nyggard. 1440 Promp. Parv. (Harl. 221) 355 Nyggarde, or muglard, supra, or nygun, or pynchar, infra, tenax. 1529 T. MORE Dialogue Heresyes III, in Wks. 225/2 If they kepe fewe seruauntes we call them nyggardes. 1576 A. FLEMING tr. Hippocrates in Panoplie Epist. 291 Some are pinchpenies & notable niggards. 1606 J. CARPENTER Schelomonocham xliii. f. 168, That niggard, who for feare of loosing his wealth would hide it. a1674 T. TRAHERNE Christian Ethicks (1675) 481 He that does brave acts abroad, but is a Niggard within doors. 1720 R. WELTON tr. T. Alvares de Andrade Sufferings Son of God I. XI. 280 As for the stingy Niggard, He benefits none, no, not even himself. 1752 E. YOUNG Brothers V. i, 'Tis impious to be niggards in delight. 1776 T. PAINE Common Sense iv. 73 That narrowness of soul..which the niggards of all professions are so unwilling to part with. 1830 I. D'ISRAELI Comm. Life Charles I III. viii. 163 This monarch was no niggard when he once showered the largess of his royal friendship. 1878 R. BROWNING La Saisiaz 290 Praise or blame of its contriver, shown a niggard or profuse In each good or evil issue! 1886 19th Cent. Apr. 519 It would not be permitted to a niggard to let the parsonage fall into disrepair. 1903 P. GIBBON Afr. Items 27 Life was a niggard, grudging him a part. 1961 Internat. Affairs 37 245 The exigencies of party politics at home (including back-bench diehards, strategic pundits, sectional pressure-groups, Treasury niggards). 1997 Sporting Life (Electronic ed.) 18 Sept., He won substantial damages of £17,000 from a judge who was a notorious niggard in such matters.
dag.gif
b.
With of. Obs.
c1395 CHAUCER Wife of Bath's Tale 1263 Olde and angry nygardes [c1415 Corpus Oxf. nyggardes] of dispence God sende hem soone verray pestilence. c1400 Bk. to Mother (Bodl.) 126 Whanne oure Lord is large of his drinke, be not we scarse nygardus
th.gif
erof to parte wi
th.gif
o
th.gif
ere. 1541 T. ELYOT Image of Gouernance xxiv. f. 50 , He was suche a nygard of tyme, that he was meruaylously greued, yf he spente any daye in solace. 1593 M. DRAYTON Idea ii. sig. B4, Thy wearied lungs be niggards of thy breath. 1633 P. FLETCHER Poet. Misc. 64 A crown of wood-nymphs..Sit round about, no niggards of their faces. 1660 F. BROOKE tr. V. Leblanc World Surveyed 56 They..are not niggards of their lives in their Princes service. 1711 POPE Ess. Crit. 33 Be Niggards of Advice on no Pretence; For the worst Avarice is that of Sense. 1772 H. MACKENZIE Man of World I. v, He who never trusts, is a niggard of his soul. 1842 G. BORROW Bible in Spain III. xi. 202 As I had no hopes of a fresh supply, I was almost tempted to be a niggard of the few which remained. 1862 E. M. GOULBURN Thoughts Personal Relig. (1873) IV. xi. 349 So long as he thinks Him a niggard either of pardon or grace. 1871 ‘G. ELIOT’ Armgart i. 117 You will not be a niggard of your joy And chide the eagerness that came to share it.
c. Sc., Eng. regional (north.), and Irish English. A harsh, insensitive, or thoughtless person; a lout, a barbarian. Also as a more general term of abuse.
1790 J. BYNG Diary 9 June in Torrington Diaries (1935) II. 164 A grove of tall trees..if Mr H: suffers them to be fell'd, he must be a Neger. 1792 G. GALLOWAY Poems 19 An illiterate kintra niggar, Blest wi' a smart external figure. 1818 SCOTT Heart of Mid-lothian iv. 70 He had gien her a loundering wi' his cane, the neger that he was! 1825 J. T. BROCKETT Gloss. North Country Words, Neagre, a term of reproach, equivalent to a base wretch; though often confined to a mean, niggardly person. 1827 J. WATT Poems 72 Ay sauntrin' like a dolt ane's lain A niegre daubit. 1851 H. MAYHEW London Labour II. 231/1 One..described to me as a ‘feather dresser to an out-and-out negur’. 1877 F. ROSS et al. Gloss. Words Holderness, Neeagur, a negro; also, a contemptible fellow; a stingy niggard. 1888 H. SMART Master of Rathkelly II. vii, The divil a ha'penny have I parted with to the old nagur! 1996 C. I. MACAFEE Conc. Ulster Dict. 235/2 Nigger, naiger,..a niggard, a miser..an unprincipled, worthless person..a lout, a coarse, insensitive person..a reckless fellow.
2. A movable piece of iron or firebrick placed in the side or bottom of a grate to save fuel; a false bottom. Also niggard iron. Now rare (chiefly Eng. regional (north.), Sc., and Irish English).
1688 R. HOLME Acad. Armory (1905) III. xiv. 9/1 The seuerall parts of a great are these... The niggatt Irons, Irons to set further or closer to gather. 1710 in B. Trinder & J. Cox Yeomen & Colliers in Telford 1660-1750 (1980) 233 One Iron grate with two Nigots. 1820 C. R. MATURIN Melmoth I. i. 25 Go down and draw the niggers of the kitchen fire closer. 1851 H. MAYHEW London Labour II. 6/2 Niggards, generally called niggers (i.e., false bottoms for grates). 1869 J. P. MORRIS Furness Gloss. 67 Niggert, a piece of iron placed at the side of a fire grate to contract its width and save coals. 1894 R. O. HESLOP Northumberland Words, Niggarts, side pieces of iron or firebrick used to contract the fire space in a fire grate. 1895 Leeds Mercury Weekly Suppl. 17 Aug. 3/8 Nigger, an end-iron, q.v.; Todmorden. 1985 K. HOWARTH Sounds Gradely (North West Sound Archive), Nigget-iron, a small iron plate used to cut off heat from under the oven in the old-time grate. 1996 C. I. MACAFEE Conc. Ulster Dict. 235/2 Nigger, naiger,..a fire-brick, a false side or bottom to a grate.
B. adj. Now chiefly literary.
1. a. Having a miserly nature; parsimonious, mean, sparing; = NIGGARDLY adj. 2a.
In quot. 1600 fig.: hard, unyielding.
c1400 (?a1387) LANGLAND Piers Plowman (Vesp.) C. XX. 219 Nygard [c1400 Huntington be ingrat to
th.gif
y kynde, The holygost..ne helpeth
th.gif
e, be thow certayn]. a1420 LYDGATE Troyyes Bk. (Augustus A.4) II. 2602 Argus eyen..In nygard hertis be oft sythes blynde. a1425 (?a1400) CHAUCER Romaunt Rose 1172 A full gret fool is he..That bothe riche and nygard is. ?1515 A. BARCLAY Egloges IV. sig. Cv, Though ye be negard, & nought wylt gyue of thyne. 1577 H. RHODES Bk. Nurture (new ed.) sig. Dviiiv, A man that is a niggard churle no tyme is lyberall. 1598 R. BARNFIELD Complaint of Poetrie vi, in Encomion Lady Pecunia sig. A4, What infernall furie late hath haunted Their niggard purses? 1600 Wisdome Doctor Dodypoll III. sig. E2, Then your soft feete, Would be repining at these niggard stones. 1623 J. PENKETHMAN tr. Cato Handful of Honesty I. xxix, Niggard or Couetous thou shalt not seeme. 1681 DRYDEN Absalom & Achitophel 12 Why am I Scanted by a Niggard Birth? 1725 POPE tr. Homer Odyssey III. XIV. 242 What by niggard Fortune was deny'd. 1794 S. T. COLERIDGE Monody Death Chatterton, A prodigal nature and a niggard doom. 1825 J. BENTHAM Rationale Reward 35 Will they be supposed so mean as to be niggard with pence and lavish with millions? 1884 L. J. JENNINGS Croker Papers I. viii. 237 [He] paid off his personal grudges with no niggard hand. 1907 W. IRVINE tr. N. Manucci Storia Do Mogor II. 80 They are afraid to spend money even when it is necessary; fond of receiving, niggard in giving. 1948 E. POUND Pisan Cantos (1949) lxxxi. 113 Pull down thy vanity, Rathe to destroy, niggard in charity. 1991 E. S. CONNELL Alchymist's Jrnl. (1992) 24, I point out how treasure flows to chattermag niggard hucksters marketing pinchbeck remedies meant for a Lazaret.
b. With of.
1601 T. POWELL Passionate Poet sig. D1, When our Lampes are niggard of their light, Th' infused Oyle makes smoake to burne more bright. 1604 SHAKESPEARE Hamlet III. i. 14 Niggard of question, but of our demaunds Most free in his reply. a1764 C. CHURCHILL Rosciad in Poems (1933) 44 Envy would drive the colour from his cheek; But step-dame Nature, niggard of her grace, Denied the social powers of voice and face. 1812 BYRON Childe Harold II. xlix, Here dwells the caloyer, nor rude is he, Nor niggard of his cheer. 1842 J. WILSON Recreations Christopher North III. 337 The heavens are niggard of their dews. 1893 F. W. BOURDILLON September in Sursum Corda 36 Wayward guest..gently breakest the message, That days more niggard of light And the flight Of gathering swallows presage. 1910 Encycl. Brit. I. 557/2 Napoleon was prodigal of promises, but niggard of their fulfilment.
2. Of a way, space, etc.: narrow, small. Now rare.
1609 S. DANIEL Ciuile Warres I. xlviii. 45 There was A niggard narrow way for men to passe.
1813 SCOTT Rokeby II. 64 A flinty footpath's niggard space. 1868 E. R. SILL Hermitage in Poems xix, Here is no niggard gap of sky above. 1918 International (N.Y.) Feb. 36/1 Around the croft was a niggard space of cultivated land, yielding with bitter toil a few oats and a few potatoes.
3. Of actions, qualities, etc.: characteristic of a miser; = NIGGARDLY adj.
 
Maybe it was one of those vocabulary expansion threads to teach some (you know there are those who didn't know) what the definition of niggardly was. Ge whiz, if I used that word in conversation around here I'd get castigated for it simply because it sounds so much like the N word and folks have no clue what it means.

I think no-one should castigate you, crumbs you're not a paedophile or something, they should be castigated, using a blunt knife. ;)
 
why is the word offensive - because it sounds similar to a word that is offensive? even though the accent is different and they are spelled differently? niggard vs nigger

should the word kite be banned because it sounds like kike

is the science of philology to be discarded and lost because it is not politically correct?

That depends on whether your point is to communicate or to educate.

If you are attempting to get across an idea and the words you use get in your way, and sometimes are found to be offensive even though they do not mean what the offense is over, then you are an ineffective communicator.

Using a word that some of your audience is sure to find offensive, whether it is because they don't know what it means or that it is in reality offensive doesn't matter at all. What matters is that once those people take offense your meaning, however enlightened it may be, will be lost to them.

The urge to use terms that are no longer mainstream to seem educated is difficult to avoid when speaking, but remembering that the purpose is to communicate ideas and not to teach philology comes in handy in word choices. Nobody is going to listen to a speech that they need a special definition sheet in order to fully understand, unless they are in a classroom where such is appropriate.
 
That depends on whether your point is to communicate or to educate.

If you are attempting to get across an idea and the words you use get in your way, and sometimes are found to be offensive even though they do not mean what the offense is over, then you are an ineffective communicator.

Using a word that some of your audience is sure to find offensive, whether it is because they don't know what it means or that it is in reality offensive doesn't matter at all. What matters is that once those people take offense your meaning, however enlightened it may be, will be lost to them.

The urge to use terms that are no longer mainstream to seem educated is difficult to avoid when speaking, but remembering that the purpose is to communicate ideas and not to teach philology comes in handy in word choices. Nobody is going to listen to a speech that they need a special definition sheet in order to fully understand, unless they are in a classroom where such is appropriate.

d

i guess i am confused, when did niggardly come into disrepute

it is not a word that i would normally use in conversation or making a speech

i could always use a thesaurus to find a non-disreputable word if i knew that a particular word has fallen into disrepute, but what if i do not know
 
Back
Top