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NiftyNiblick

NiftyNiblick

1960s Chick Magnet
That's what I saw when I logged on this morning.

The Russiapublicans, led by the malignant anal tumor Mike Johnson,
refused to address the bi-partisan immigration bill...

so as far as any sane person is concerned,
the southern border is no longer an issue to them.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
That's what I saw when I logged on this morning.

The Russiapublicans, led by the malignant anal tumor Mike Johnson,
refused to address the bi-partisan immigration bill...

so as far as any sane person is concerned,
the southern border is no longer an issue to them.
Click to expand...

That's my take as well. No doubt Biden will be keeping their failure to act front and center as the campaigns drag on. Winning will be based on who can persuade the most independents.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
That's my take as well. No doubt Biden will be keeping their failure to act front and center as the campaigns drag on. Winning will be based on who can persuade the most independents.
Click to expand...


I'm not too far from perfect peace in an urn,
and yet to this day, Owl,
I have yet to garner an understanding of Independents.

"Us vs. them" has been the reality of my life for as long as I can remember,
and I can remember my third birthday party.

I specifically remember my great aunt [not pronounced ant] Carmela, who died young when I was eight,
asking me how old I was
and I stuck out three fingers.

She was my maternal grandmother's favorite younger sister.

I even remember the mechanical crawling turtle that somebody gave me.

And the two birthday cakes. Two different aunts [not pronounced ant] made one that year.

But in all this time, I never learned to understand why somebody wouldn't want to
OFFICIALLY join the fight.

I'm a type, though.
Understanding different types can, of course, be difficult.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
I'm not too far from perfect peace in an urn,
and yet to this day, Owl,
I have yet to garner an understanding of Independents.

"Us vs. them" has been the reality of my life for as long as I can remember,
and I can remember my third birthday party.

I specifically remember my great aunt [not pronounced ant] Carmela, who died young when I was eight,
asking me how old I was
and I stuck out three fingers.

She was my maternal grandmother's favorite younger sister.

I even remember the mechanical crawling turtle that somebody gave me.

And the two birthday cakes. Two different aunts [not pronounced ant] made one that year.

But in all this time, I never learned to understand why somebody wouldn't want to
OFFICIALLY join the fight.

I'm a type, though.
Understanding different types can, of course, be difficult.
Click to expand...

I think your problem is that you don't understand that there are more than 2 sides to this fight. I'm not an American, but if I were, I wouldn't be voting for Trump or Biden come November. I'd be voting for RFK Jr., assuming he's still on the ballot. And ofcourse I don't just vote- I talk to people and try to persuade them of how bad both Trump and Biden are, as well as why RFK Jr. is better than both of them by miles.
 
Phoenyx said:
I think your problem is that you don't understand that there are more than 2 sides to this fight. I'm not an American, but if I were, I wouldn't be voting for Trump or Biden come November. I'd be voting for RFK Jr., assuming he's still on the ballot. And ofcourse I don't just vote- I talk to people and try to persuade them of how bad both Trump and Biden are.
Click to expand...

Either Trump or Biden is going to win.
That's the reality.
A really good president is not an option on the table this time around.
There are only TWO relevant sides to this fight.
Not good, but the reality.

The imperative is to stop Trump...by whatever means required...or give up our democracy.
It's that simple.

As for RFK, Jr., I've seen no indications that he's even sane.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Either Trump or Biden is going to win.
That's the reality.
Click to expand...

You may be right. That doesn't mean that I'd resort to voting for either of them. I think there's a limit to just how far one can push the "lesser of evils" idea. To go to the extreme, if your only choices were Stalin or Hitler, would you still vote for one of them?

NiftyNiblick said:
A really good president is not an option on the table this time around.
Click to expand...

I believe there is at least one presidential candidate that is pretty good, that is, RFK Jr. So long as that remains true, I think people should vote for him, regardless of whether or not he has good chances of winning.

NiftyNiblick said:
There are only TWO relevant sides to this fight.
Not good, but the reality.
Click to expand...

That's where I believe you're mistaken. Just because RFK Jr. may not be able to win doesn't mean that he and the side that he represents isn't relevant. Let's assume that you're right, that either Trump or Biden wins this next election. As they inevitably sail towards the iceberg that awaits their administration, those who voted for neither of them will be able to say "I didn't vote for them" and get people to realize that they have to start thinking and voting differently if they want to save the United States from ever greater tragedies.

NiftyNiblick said:
The imperative is to stop Trump...by whatever means required...or give up our democracy.
It's that simple.
Click to expand...

During the last election, I pretty much held your point of view. The fact that Bernie Sanders had decided to support Biden also helped. But not this time. This time, I think voting for either Biden or Trump is essentially a vote for the U.S.'s ship meeting its iceberg soon and then just trying to be one of those on the rafts of the wreck, seeing if they can survive the experience.

NiftyNiblick said:
As for RFK, Jr., I've seen no indications that he's even sane.
Click to expand...

We obviously have very different views of the man.
 
Phoenyx said:
To go to the extreme, if your only choices were Stalin or Hitler, would you still vote for one of them?
Click to expand...


Easy choice. I'd definitely vote for Stalin, our WWII ally who fought Hitler with us.

If the ONLY realistic choices were communist totalitarianism vs. fascist totalitarianism,
I'll take the former every single time.

With the exception of North Korea, hardly a Marxist standard,
most communist countries at least take care of their people.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Easy choice. I'd definitely vote for Stalin, our WWII ally who fought Hitler with us.

If the ONLY realistic choices were communist totalitarianism vs. fascist totalitarianism,
I'll take the former every single time.

With the exception of North Korea, hardly a Marxist standard,
most communist countries at least take care of their people.
Click to expand...

Alright, you win, you really would go to the extreme when it comes to voting for the "lesser of evils". I agree with you that Stalin was better than Hitler, but they were both still terrible and I wouldn't have voted for either, at least if I'd had the knowledge of what they would end up doing.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
I'm not too far from perfect peace in an urn,
and yet to this day, Owl,
I have yet to garner an understanding of Independents.

"Us vs. them" has been the reality of my life for as long as I can remember,
and I can remember my third birthday party.

I specifically remember my great aunt [not pronounced ant] Carmela, who died young when I was eight,
asking me how old I was
and I stuck out three fingers.

She was my maternal grandmother's favorite younger sister.

I even remember the mechanical crawling turtle that somebody gave me.

And the two birthday cakes. Two different aunts [not pronounced ant] made one that year.

But in all this time, I never learned to understand why somebody wouldn't want to
OFFICIALLY join the fight.

I'm a type, though.
Understanding different types can, of course, be difficult.
Click to expand...

I know how you feel about us independents and moderates -- we're all wussies. IMO though choosing one side and sticking to it no matter what is letting yourself be slave rather than master. We've all seen how the Trumpanzees are immune to ethics, facts, truth, etc. because they are slaves to their malicious mango master. No thanks. I've always voted issues and character first, because the character of a leader sets t he tone for the rest of the country. I've voted for (D)s, (R)s, and even (L)s in the past. If the (D) candidate is a scumbag I'll either pick someone else, or leave that ballot spot blank. Ditto for the rest of them.
 
Phoenyx said:
I think your problem is that you don't understand that there are more than 2 sides to this fight. I'm not an American, but if I were, I wouldn't be voting for Trump or Biden come November. I'd be voting for RFK Jr., assuming he's still on the ballot. And ofcourse I don't just vote- I talk to people and try to persuade them of how bad both Trump and Biden are, as well as why RFK Jr. is better than both of them by miles.
Click to expand...

RFK is a crackpot anti-vaxxer. That's all I need to know. I'm sure Putin would love for more American citizens to choose RFK Jr., though, thus giving his lapdog Trump another chance to finish the destruction of America he started in 2016.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
I know how you feel about us independents and moderates -- we're all wussies. IMO though choosing one side and sticking to it no matter what is letting yourself be slave rather than master. We've all seen how the Trumpanzees are immune to ethics, facts, truth, etc. because they are slaves to their malicious mango master. No thanks. I've always voted issues and character first, because the character of a leader sets t he tone for the rest of the country. I've voted for (D)s, (R)s, and even (L)s in the past. If the (D) candidate is a scumbag I'll either pick someone else, or leave that ballot spot blank. Ditto for the rest of them.
Click to expand...

Ethics are situational and transactional in politics, Owl.
That's for all intents and purposes the definition of modern politics.

I'm not a slave to my party because I'm not accepting my party's modern woke liberal direction.
I vote my classic socialist values in the primaries, and my donations go to places that reflect my own views.

If a Russiapublican saved me from a burning building, however, he/she would still have no chance at my vote.
To those of us who belong to them, parties actually MEAN something.
They represent ideologies.
We're not afraid of labels.
We take sides, and want to know who is and isn't on ours.

That comes natural to personalities like me.
Perhaps not to everyone, though.

And I never vote character because I don't know these people personally to really assess their characters,
and I'm much more interested in the policy positions and core ideology anyway.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Ethics are situational and transactional in politics, Owl.
That's for all intents and purposes the definition of modern politics.

I'm not a slave to my party because I'm not accepting my party's modern woke liberal direction.
I vote my classic socialist values in the primaries, and my donations go to places that reflect my own views.

If a Russiapublican saved me from a burning building, however, he/she would still have no chance at my vote.
To those of us who belong to them, parties actually MEAN something.
They represent ideologies.
We're not afraid of labels.
We take sides, and want to know who is and isn't on ours.

That comes natural to personalities like me.
Perhaps not to everyone, though.

And I never vote character because I don't know these people personally to really assess their characters,
and I'm much more interested in the policy positions and core ideology anyway.
Click to expand...

ONly evil people think like you.

realpolitik is evil.

are you still for defunding the police?
 
NiftyNiblick said:
That's what I saw when I logged on this morning.

The Russiapublicans, led by the malignant anal tumor Mike Johnson,
refused to address the bi-partisan immigration bill...

so as far as any sane person is concerned,
the southern border is no longer an issue to them.
Click to expand...

Have you actually read that bill?
 
Phoenyx said:
You may be right. That doesn't mean that I'd resort to voting for either of them. I think there's a limit to just how far one can push the "lesser of evils" idea. To go to the extreme, if your only choices were Stalin or Hitler, would you still vote for one of them?



I believe there is at least one presidential candidate that is pretty good, that is, RFK Jr. So long as that remains true, I think people should vote for him, regardless of whether or not he has good chances of winning.



That's where I believe you're mistaken. Just because RFK Jr. may not be able to win doesn't mean that he and the side that he represents isn't relevant. Let's assume that you're right, that either Trump or Biden wins this next election. As they inevitably sail towards the iceberg that awaits their administration, those who voted for neither of them will be able to say "I didn't vote for them" and get people to realize that they have to start thinking and voting differently if they want to save the United States from ever greater tragedies.



During the last election, I pretty much held your point of view. The fact that Bernie Sanders had decided to support Biden also helped. But not this time. This time, I think voting for either Biden or Trump is essentially a vote for the U.S.'s ship meeting its iceberg soon and then just trying to be one of those on the rafts of the wreck, seeing if they can survive the experience.



We obviously have very different views of the man.
Click to expand...

Biden is a president governing like presidents of the past did. Trump is a bomb thrower who does what he wants, legal, ethical or not. I am glad a person with your understanding cannot vote in America.
 
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