No Second Coming for Libertarians

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"There will be no second coming of Milton Friedman in these troubled economic times, so perhaps it’s time for libertarians and other economic liberals to find a new god.

In a short essay, “Why Is There no Milton Friedman Today?,” Econ Journal Watch, May 2010, at 210, Jude Richard Posner makes the case that Freidman’s success as both an academic economist and policy promoter cannot easily be replicated today. In fact, it might be impossible. According to Posner, Friedman was in the right place at the right time when, at the close of the 1970s, conservative politicians on both sides of the Atlantic sought to rejuvenate their staggering economies by adopting neoliberal prescriptions of low taxes and deregulation. It was a mantra that Friedman had been repeating for decades, albeit one that fell on deaf ears during more prosperous periods. So why, during our current decline in prosperity, has another Friedman not risen up to save us? As Posner points out, few (if any) economists living today possess Friedman’s rhetorical skills. Most are incapable of making their highly mathematized findings intelligible to politicians or the population at large. More importantly, many of the animating assumptions of neoclassical economics are ideologically informed; they lack the scientific rigor (or the assumption of scientific rigor) that once made economics appear to many as a science akin to physics and biology.

The latter observation might strike some as startling given Posner’s longstanding association with the Chicago School’s Law & Economics movement, but as I pointed out in a recent post, “Posner,” the prolific judge from Hyde Park apostatized from the libertarian economic camp following the 2008 financial crisis. While it’s not clear that Posner has fully abandoned his support for low-level antitrust enforcement and the deregulation of industries such as telecommunications, his piece on Friedman appears to admit that neoclassical economics as a whole is built on a series of faith-based assumptions that cannot withstand critical scrutiny by behavioral economists. If that critique is true for the shoddy thinking that led to the deregulation of financial markets, why isn’t it true for the thinking that led to the deregulation of airlines? Where does one draw the line?

Not surprisingly, the Friedman essay also reveals a few things about Posner’s personal disposition on a number of social topics. Posner asserts, without supporting argumentation, that libertarian economists “advocate a number of sensible reforms, such as ending the war on drugs, authorizing physician-assisted suicide, allowing the sale of kidneys and other organs, deregulating the adoption market, abolishing tax deductions for employer-provided health insurance, liberalizing immigration, privatizing the postal sector, and abolishing agricultural subsidies[.]” But why are any of these “sensible” and, more fundamentally, what does Posner even mean by “sensible”? In numerous articles and books, Posner writes about the importance of judges reaching “sensible results” in cases, but the standard for “sensibility” never seems to transcend the subjective preferences of the individual judge. Moreover, the argument for deregulating the adoption and organ markets is primarily economic; but hasn’t Posner just called into question the veracity of economics or, at least, the sort of free-market economics that he himself relied upon when co-authoring the infamous article, “The Economics of the Baby Shortage,” 7 Journal of Legal Studies 373 (1978) and, later, “The Regulation of the Market in Adoptions,” 67 Boston University Law Review 59 (1987)? Again, where does one draw the line when it comes to the veracity of economic thinking?

Last November I posted “A Brief Note on the End of Libertarianism” in which I sketched a socio-demographic argument for libertarianism’s likely demise as a genuine force in American politics. The position I took in that post is only strengthened by Posner’s observations. Without a new prophet, nay, a new god to grace libertarianism with a new gospel supported by seemingly divine intellectual inspiration, the movement will be stuck thumping dusty tomes that few outside the circle of converts bother to take seriously anymore. “Austrian Economics,” which never had the reputational force in America that the Chicago School once wielded, is probably not the answer either. Besides, according to “Austrians,” economists are only capable of explaining the “is”; they are methodologically barred from proclaiming “ought” (though that’s never stopped them before)."

http://modestinus.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/no-second-coming-for-libertarians/
 
Friedman/libertarian/ Austrian economics haven’t been alive in any actual respect since the depression of the 1920’s/1930’s when the father of American Socialism FDR tried to spend his way out of the depression. Friedman was for the most part a lonely and only sane voice in the world of economics as libertarians have been a fractional minority in the American world of Constitutional Republicanism.

The “Second Coming” of Friedman/libertarian/Austrian economics might be on the horizon sooner than you think. With worldwide national debts and out of control socialism stirring the pot of national bankruptcies and the failing of Keynesian economics its becoming apparent to some already that a change in economic policy for many will soon be inevitable.
 
In a short essay, “Why Is There no Milton Friedman Today?,” Econ Journal Watch, May 2010, at 210, Jude Richard Posner makes the case that Freidman’s success as both an academic economist and policy promoter cannot easily be replicated today. In fact, it might be impossible. According to Posner, Friedman was in the right place at the right time when, at the close of the 1970s, conservative politicians on both sides of the Atlantic sought to rejuvenate their staggering economies by adopting neoliberal prescriptions of low taxes and deregulation. It was a mantra that Friedman had been repeating for decades, albeit one that fell on deaf ears during more prosperous periods. So why, during our current decline in prosperity, has another Friedman not risen up to save us? As Posner points out, few (if any) economists living today possess Friedman’s rhetorical skills. Most are incapable of making their highly mathematized findings intelligible to politicians or the population at large. More importantly, many of the animating assumptions of neoclassical economics are ideologically informed; they lack the scientific rigor (or the assumption of scientific rigor) that once made economics appear to many as a science akin to physics and biology.
Because....the aforementioned policies are what caused the economic decline. In case you hadn't noticed, everyone on the Right attempts to make the case that further tax cuts are the answer.

In today's economy, where all profits are made via investment schemes that create no jobs, Friedman's theory does not apply. We need to raise cap gains to match marginal rates, and created jobs in the public sector.
 
Because....the aforementioned policies are what caused the economic decline. In case you hadn't noticed, everyone on the Right attempts to make the case that further tax cuts are the answer.

In today's economy, where all profits are made via investment schemes that create no jobs, Friedman's theory does not apply. We need to raise cap gains to match marginal rates, and created jobs in the public sector.

I pretty much agree. Friedman/Hayek/whoever, their theories have been proven to cause more problems than they solve - I think the major flaw would be their inability to account for a competitive job market.
 
Friedman/libertarian/ Austrian economics haven’t been alive in any actual respect since the depression of the 1920’s/1930’s when the father of American Socialism FDR tried to spend his way out of the depression. Friedman was for the most part a lonely and only sane voice in the world of economics as libertarians have been a fractional minority in the American world of Constitutional Republicanism.

The “Second Coming” of Friedman/libertarian/Austrian economics might be on the horizon sooner than you think. With worldwide national debts and out of control socialism stirring the pot of national bankruptcies and the failing of Keynesian economics its becoming apparent to some already that a change in economic policy for many will soon be inevitable.

Neo-classical economics has quite a bit of influence, frankly, and has been one of the most widely respected schools over the past half-century - especially if you look at RR. It's just fallen out of favor recently.

And you clearly still can't define socialism, lunatic. FDR wasn't the the father of American socialism - that'd be these two - he was a Keynesian adherent.

But really, CL, I have something for you to read:

http://www.amazon.com/Socialism-Past-Future-Michael-Harrington/dp/1611453356

Go find it at your local library, or something. Then maybe you'll be able to have a remotely intelligent discussion on the topic of socialism.
 
I pretty much agree. Friedman/Hayek/whoever, their theories have been proven to cause more problems than they solve - I think the major flaw would be their inability to account for a competitive job market.

Now that’s funny, I don’t care who ya are!!!!! A communist touting the virtues of a “competitive job market.” Even most fools know that socialism is all about the “elimination” of a competitive job market.
 
you clearly still can't define socialism, lunatic. FDR wasn't the father of American socialism - he was a Keynesian adherent.

Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy.[1] "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, or citizen ownership of equity.[2] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them.[3] They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

FDR was the father and creator of the unconstitutional “New Deal” socialist program.



But really, CL, I have something for you to read:

http://www.amazon.com/Socialism-Past-Future-Michael-Harrington/dp/1611453356

Go find it at your local library, or something. Then maybe you'll be able to have a remotely intelligent discussion on the topic of socialism.

Why would I want to read anything recommended by you when you refuse to even respond to my accusation that socialism is contrary to human nature? Apparently you have no rational argument opposed to that fact. Your only reply to my arguments in opposition to socialism are constructed from some gibberish intended to confuse the issue rather than confront it or your endless recommendations of communist literature. Why not just take the issue head on and with your own arguments defending socialism in laymen’s language instead of attempting to create some pretext that you’re some kind of fucking genius?
 
Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy.[1] "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, or citizen ownership of equity.[2] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them.[3] They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

FDR was the father and creator of the unconstitutional “New Deal” socialist program.





Why would I want to read anything recommended by you when you refuse to even respond to my accusation that socialism is contrary to human nature? Apparently you have no rational argument opposed to that fact. Your only reply to my arguments in opposition to socialism are constructed from some gibberish intended to confuse the issue rather than confront it or your endless recommendations of communist literature. Why not just take the issue head on and with your own arguments defending socialism in laymen’s language instead of attempting to create some pretext that you’re some kind of fucking genius?

We've argued this multiple times. And I've repeatedly posed that it's not contrary to human nature - which itself is vague and not easily defined. The sparknotes version of the argument that I've already presented:

1. Capitalism violates everything we know about the needs and wants of human beings.
2. Capitalism strips individuals of their ability to express themselves within their work.
3. Capitalism strips individuals of their ability to control the source of their income, and ultimately, their life.
4. Capitalism produces artificial inequality.
5. Socialism mitigates this by eliminating hierarchies and power dynamics where they don't naturally exist - capitalist to worker, ruler to subject, or husband to wife, for example.
6. Socialism reforms these relationships to allow neither party to exert their will over the other. Using those examples: It democratizes the workplaces, so it behaves in a fashion where the will of each individual is expressed according to their ability. It makes education a right, so the ability to enter a career is based solely on ability, not the conditions of one's birth. It creates a highly localized democracy, so most decisions are made by individuals on a direct level. It provides a guaranteed minimum income, so the non-working spouse will have no trouble leaving, if they decide to.
7. This allows the individual's needs to be met to the best of a society's ability, therefore matching socialism perfectly to our understanding of human nature.

Also, you could do well reading what I gave you. Michael Harrington was one of the best political thinkers to ever live in the United States - his history and arguments are spot-on.
 
We've argued this multiple times. And I've repeatedly posed that it's not contrary to human nature - which itself is vague and not easily defined.

Here we go again with "it's human nature". Human nature is not geared toward any particular economic system. Human nature IS geared toward survival - in most cases, we want to live (with certain exceptions for sacrificing ourselves for the good of our children or kin). Different societies, different economic systems arose based upon needing to survive - from hunting/gathering to only agricultural; Eskimos lived/bartered differently from American Indians in the plains states. Polynesians had a whole different setup.

We also have the power to analyze how we are living to see if it is meeting our needs. Most of us don't want pure capitalism; in its extreme it leads to a dog-eat-dog world, where the rich can do whatever they want, including polluting the environment, and the rest of scramble for the scraps.

And thus we mix other elements into our economic system, including that we take care of our elderly and sick; we provide public schools; we have free health clinics for the poor; we have regulations around pollution and govt agencies that track the spread of sickness or food poisoning, that keep law and order, that maintain our levees. We don't require everyone to hire their own security guards, their own fire fighters, etc. It makes more sense to band together and fund them communally.

In the US, we don't seem to want "pure" socialism because we seem to like having some of the people win the lottery - that is, to start a business, be wildly successful, and have lots of riches. But we use labor laws and taxes to try to keep things more of a level playing field - because no, they "didn't build it alone". Our growing income inequality is showing this isn't working too well, but hopefully there will be a correction.

I enjoy the discussions of the different economic systems and their pros and cons. But I find any argument that it's "human nature" to be ... oh, what's the word? circular? a dead end? useless? I apologize, I can't think of the best word right now. But it doesn't advance the discussion.
 
Here we go again with "it's human nature". Human nature is not geared toward any particular economic system. Human nature IS geared toward survival - in most cases, we want to live (with certain exceptions for sacrificing ourselves for the good of our children or kin). Different societies, different economic systems arose based upon needing to survive - from hunting/gathering to only agricultural; Eskimos lived/bartered differently from American Indians in the plains states. Polynesians had a whole different setup.

We also have the power to analyze how we are living to see if it is meeting our needs. Most of us don't want pure capitalism; in its extreme it leads to a dog-eat-dog world, where the rich can do whatever they want, including polluting the environment, and the rest of scramble for the scraps.

And thus we mix other elements into our economic system, including that we take care of our elderly and sick; we provide public schools; we have free health clinics for the poor; we have regulations around pollution and govt agencies that track the spread of sickness or food poisoning, that keep law and order, that maintain our levees. We don't require everyone to hire their own security guards, their own fire fighters, etc. It makes more sense to band together and fund them communally.

In the US, we don't seem to want "pure" socialism because we seem to like having some of the people win the lottery - that is, to start a business, be wildly successful, and have lots of riches. But we use labor laws and taxes to try to keep things more of a level playing field - because no, they "didn't build it alone". Our growing income inequality is showing this isn't working too well, but hopefully there will be a correction.

I enjoy the discussions of the different economic systems and their pros and cons. But I find any argument that it's "human nature" to be ... oh, what's the word? circular? a dead end? useless? I apologize, I can't think of the best word right now. But it doesn't advance the discussion.

I'll have to agree with most of that. What I often argue is that "human nature" is far to vague and subjective to constitute any sort of meaningful discussion.
 
I'll have to agree with most of that. What I often argue is that "human nature" is far to vague and subjective to constitute any sort of meaningful discussion.

Ok, well you said it in a LOT fewer words...which means more people will read it. Thanks for the well-written summary!
 
We've argued this multiple times. And I've repeatedly posed that it's not contrary to human nature - which itself is vague and not easily defined. The sparknotes version of the argument that I've already presented:

1. Capitalism violates everything we know about the needs and wants of human beings.
Capitalism provides the needs and wants of human beings. Capitalism is invention, free and agreeable collaboration and contract. Capitalism requires labor and thereby provides jobs, higher living standards, more products, better mouse traps, competition and therewith low inflation. Capitalism is the tide that raises all boats not anchored to the bottom by socialism.
2. Capitalism strips individuals of their ability to express themselves within their work.

Yeah right! And that’s why capitalism only invented the Rail Roads, the light bulb, your TV set, farming so productive it feeds most of the world, and even the fucking computer you tap out your fucking socialist insanity on.
3. Capitalism strips individuals of their ability to control the source of their income, and ultimately, their life.

Capitalism provides the opportunity for people to be free and get educations that make them valuable to industry, or to create industry, or invest in industry. Capitalism operates on ambition and thereby gives incentive to ambitious folks to rise as high in society as their ambition, intellect and training will allow them to rise.

The Soviet workers had a saying, “socialism pretends to pay us, so we pretend to work.”
 
4. Capitalism produces artificial inequality.

Humans are not “equal.” We are not all equally pretty, equally intelligent or equally ambitious. We are only guaranteed to have equal treatment under constitutional rule of law from our government by our Constitution. Otherwise all equality must be [bv]earned[/b]
5. Socialism mitigates this by eliminating hierarchies and power dynamics where they don't naturally exist - capitalist to worker, ruler to subject, or husband to wife, for example.

Name a single place where socialism “eliminated hierarchy” i. e. government. Even in the world of the 60’s flower children and communist sharing communes of the hippies, “hierarchy” managed to establish itself likely by what you’d call “natural” means, but always asserted itself ending in a dictatorial and “unfair” fashion, jealousy took over the more ambitious came to despise the lazy bastards among them, sharing became greed and disillusionment and the socialist experimental structure quickly folded its tent and its members soon embraced the world of capitalism. There’s nary a single example of any manner of pure socialism or democracy large or small whereby a successful economy survived. Nary a single example of “NO” hierarchy, or total democracy. The theory is a farce.

6. Socialism reforms these relationships to allow neither party to exert their will over the other. Using those examples: It democratizes the workplaces, so it behaves in a fashion where the will of each individual is expressed according to their ability. It makes education a right, so the ability to enter a career is based solely on ability, not the conditions of one's birth. It creates a highly localized democracy, so most decisions are made by individuals on a direct level. It provides a guaranteed minimum income, so the non-working spouse will have no trouble leaving, if they decide to.

Who creates the “rule of law” and who enforces it?
7. This allows the individual's needs to be met to the best of a society's ability, therefore matching socialism perfectly to our understanding of human nature.

Socialism ignores the fact that in human nature, some refuse to be educated. Some refuse to work. Some are takers and some are givers. Socialism ignores the fact that some people desire power, while some just desire freedom. Socialism ignores that some people are violent and others are peaceful. Socialism ignores that some people desire wealth and some not so much. Socialism ignores that some people desire to be rewarded for their inventive genius over and above the drone with no ambition or inventive genius.

Socialism is a fucking scam that seeks to create a society of fucking zombies and incentive-devoid drones totally contrary to human nature.

Also, you could do well reading what I gave you. Michael Harrington was one of the best political thinkers to ever live in the United States - his history and arguments are spot-on.

Michael Harrington was a fucking communist.
 
I know. Such is the nature of politics - personally, I think that was a bad idea, but I wasn't aiming at reelection.

The dumbest economic policies of FDR were his price control measures. Whenever have to dump expired milk down the drain, I announce that I'm going to FDR the milk.
 
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