Obama pulls even with Clinton in PA in 2 new polls

O

Onceler

New member
How frustrating must this be for Clinton, after the month Obama has had?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/pa/pennsylvania_democratic_primary-240.html

I hate to say it, but I think it's possible that Americans just might be wising up. Things like Wright & the "bitter" comments are BS compared to the war, the economy, the environment, healthcare, education, etc, etc, etc. We keep hearing how those things are going to "haunt" Obama throughout the election, but if he wins or comes close in PA, all bets are off.

Maybe Americans are starting to get the fact that what someone's economic plan is can be far more important than where he/she went to church, or a poorly worded comment.
 
Onceler said:
How frustrating must this be for Clinton, after the month Obama has had?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/pa/pennsylvania_democratic_primary-240.html

I hate to say it, but I think it's possible that Americans just might be wising up. Things like Wright & the "bitter" comments are BS compared to the war, the economy, the environment, healthcare, education, etc, etc, etc. We keep hearing how those things are going to "haunt" Obama throughout the election, but if he wins or comes close in PA, all bets are off.

Maybe Americans are starting to get the fact that what someone's economic plan is can be far more important than where he/she went to church, or a poorly worded comment.
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Excellent news and I agree.

Republicans must be shaking in their goosesteppin' boots.
 
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I'm amazed that as smart as Bill is supposed to be how inept Hillary looks and is acting.
It's comical in my view fit for SNL. She takes a stab at Obama at a Clinton rally with about 24 people there and 4 boo. She pauses in after a policy dabble for applause and dead silence. She is soo done
 
Onceler said:
How frustrating must this be for Clinton, after the month Obama has had?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/pa/pennsylvania_democratic_primary-240.html

Maybe Americans are starting to get the fact that what someone's economic plan is can be far more important than where he/she went to church, or a poorly worded comment.
Click to expand...

Obama will pretty clearly be the Dem nominee. He's around 150 delegates ahead of Hillary, and she'd have to win massively the few remaining primaries to catch him. She may win many of them, but not massively, so Obama will coast to the finish still ahead. And it looks like the Superdelegates are very reluctant to vote for the person who lost the primaries, so they probably won't help Hillary enough either.

As for the economic plan, war aims, etc. being more important, I certainly agree. And the American people have agreed too, for a long time. McGovern lost by a landslide when he preached cutting and running from Vietnam, just as the two Dem candidates now are calling for. And Mondale and Dukakis lost by similarly large margins when they called for tax increases, as the two present Dems are also doing. It's funny how the leftists keep trying the same old formulas over and over, hoping for a different result this time.

The two Dems now running, are far more leftist than any other major candidates for President have ever been. And America has historically rejected such leftists en masse, except when the Republican opposing them has been weak or liberal (see Ford, both Bushes, Dole) and the Dems have hidden their liberalism under smoke and mirrors such as "New Democrat" or "moderate".

The present Dems won't be able to hide, though. McCain has a number of liberal tendencies himself (campaign Finance "Reform", illegal-alien amnesty, manmade-global-warming belief etc.), but he's still far more conservative than either of his potential opponents.

And unlike the present people questioning the Dem candidates, McCain won't have any problem pointing out how socialistic and even unconstitutional their agendas are, despite his own forays into unconstitutionalism (Camp Finance "Reform"). Again, his sins pale next to theirs.

Fortunately, despite several generations of liberals pushing socialism, the American people are still overall conservative, and they do indeed believe that economics, war aims, etc. are more important than rhetoric and gaffes. As a result, either Hillary or Obama will be a dead duck once they get the nomination, just as every other extreme-leftist has been.
 
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It's kind of hopeless to compare Obama to Mondale, Dukakis or McGovern. Those candidates all had flaws that go well beyond the simplistic depictions of the elections they were involved in that you're trying to peddle.

I don't know how Obama will do, but after taking a beating for a month, with McCain getting a free ride, he's still leading him in national polls, and there is no doubt at all that America is tired of Iraq & tired of the economy & tired of the GOP.
 
Onceler said:
It's kind of hopeless to compare Obama to Mondale, Dukakis or McGovern.
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I can understand your fear of such a comparison, since it points to an ominous outcome for either Obama or Hillary. Referring to established trends in history has never been liberals' strong suit, since it tends to be so discouraging. But hiding from the facts will not make them go away.

Those candidates all had flaws
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They certainly did. Chief among those flaws, was liberalism; and in some, a desire for appeasement that revealed shockingly foolish judgement of foreign affairs. Unfortunately for the Democrats this year, both Hillary and Obama suffer the same flaws. If anything, these two have them even worse than previously-shellacked Dem candidates.

McGovern, in particular, is probably closest to the two present candidates, with his antlike near-socialism in economic policies and stated desire to cut and run from Vietnam. Though people were indeed tired of that war by then, losing wasn't their preferred solution. So they voted nearly two-to-one for Richard Nixon, even despite his own liberal past (wage and price controls) and his obvious complicity in the Watergate affair, IRS abuse, etc. Like McCain, Nixon's flaws were found minor by the American people, compared to his opponent's.

And the parallels to the coming 2008 election are strong, whichever Dem candidate gets the nomination. As will be the result.
 
***sigh***

It really makes no difference who wins the Democrat ticket...McCain will beat either...and for all you cheerleaders of Obama...just remember 'Code Pink' kicked Hillary to the curb and have thrown their support for Obama...quite telling... and this will destroy his chance for the Whitehouse...first the religious factor now this factor!
 
Battleborne said:
It really makes no difference who wins the Democrat ticket...McCain will beat either...and for all you cheerleaders of Obama...just remember 'Code Pink' kicked Hillary to the curb and have thrown their support for Obama...quite telling... and this will destroy his chance for the Whitehouse...first the religious factor now this factor!
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BB, fripperies such as "Code Pink" won't make much difference, since the media won't report on them. It's both Dems' basically extreme liberalism that will do them in during the general election, along with their disinterest in winning the war.
 
The war was won remember?

We are now in an occupation and its going badly.

The only way you "win" and occupation is to leave.
 
"And the parallels to the coming 2008 election are strong, whichever Dem candidate gets the nomination. As will be the result."

Sorry, but that is nothing more than wishful thinking. You have a very skewed view of how the country views Iraq, and what Bush has done to the image of the GOP. A whole generation of voters has been influenced by his incompetence; in the past 7 years, we have seen more Republicans become Independents, and more Independents become Democrats.

That's just the way it is, and it is why McCain caps out at about 45% in most polls. Support for him is tepid at best, and he is not a big fave among the 'base.' Barring something major, I just don't see him having much of a chance against Obama; this is a change election, not an experience/stay the course election.
 
LOL...........

Little-Acorn said:
BB, fripperies such as "Code Pink" won't make much difference, since the media won't report on them. It's both Dems' basically extreme liberalism that will do them in during the general election, along with their disinterest in winning the war.
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I know that, they are not big enough nor smart enough to help anyone...hurt yes! Just rubbing salt in a few wounds!
However McCain will still beat either Dem candidate!;)
 
Yes little nut your President stood before a Mission Accomplished sign. Now we are doing no more than propping up an incompetent government that can't find their ass with both hands in their back pockets. This isn't the war on Terror, this nation building pure and simple. Gotta have a stable government in Iraq so that SOME arab nation can formally recognize Israel (Asshat is not always wrong), and pay us back with oil revenues.
 
I think a lot of people don't understand the diference between occupation, and presence. They also don't understand the difference between Germany, and the Middle East.
 
Damocles said:
We're still there.

They even built permanent bases. I wonder if we'll ever leave!
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So you contend that we still occupy Germany?

It also was the allies and not just us occupying germany.

If we turn this into a UN occupation I would be for that. I think that would have a better chance at success than what we have now.
 
Damocles said:
We're still there.

They even built permanent bases. I wonder if we'll ever leave!
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The "occupation" of Germany ended. We stayed because of the cold war. Also this far into the END of the war in Germany, Germans weren't still involved in street to street fighting against us, Germans were not killing other Germans because of religious or cultural differences. Matter of fact by this time in the occupation of Germany they had a functioning government, with a functioning constitution, they had a police force, and the German states were un and running again and in the process of rebuilding. Shit Patton had Bavaria up and running just few months after the war was over. Of course he didn't arrest all the party members and remove them from office. We have failed to learn that lesson in Iraq. Sewers worked in most places, they had lights all the time, hell it was a regular going concern. Do you REALLY want to compare this goatscrew with Germany after WWII? Even Japan is a bad comparison. We stayed in Korea because technically that war is not over but just in ceasefire mode. America has never successfully ended a war somewhere and then that place fail to achieve it's own independence before now. This is not a "cut and run" situation. We accomplished what Chalabi wanted, he ended up not running the place. They are not going to EVER quit shooting at us, planting bombs along the road
 
Little-Acorn said:
Obama will pretty clearly be the Dem nominee. He's around 150 delegates ahead of Hillary, and she'd have to win massively the few remaining primaries to catch him. She may win many of them, but not massively, so Obama will coast to the finish still ahead. And it looks like the Superdelegates are very reluctant to vote for the person who lost the primaries, so they probably won't help Hillary enough either.

As for the economic plan, war aims, etc. being more important, I certainly agree. And the American people have agreed too, for a long time. McGovern lost by a landslide when he preached cutting and running from Vietnam, just as the two Dem candidates now are calling for. And Mondale and Dukakis lost by similarly large margins when they called for tax increases, as the two present Dems are also doing. It's funny how the leftists keep trying the same old formulas over and over, hoping for a different result this time.

The two Dems now running, are far more leftist than any other major candidates for President have ever been. And America has historically rejected such leftists en masse, except when the Republican opposing them has been weak or liberal (see Ford, both Bushes, Dole) and the Dems have hidden their liberalism under smoke and mirrors such as "New Democrat" or "moderate".

The present Dems won't be able to hide, though. McCain has a number of liberal tendencies himself (campaign Finance "Reform", illegal-alien amnesty, manmade-global-warming belief etc.), but he's still far more conservative than either of his potential opponents.

And unlike the present people questioning the Dem candidates, McCain won't have any problem pointing out how socialistic and even unconstitutional their agendas are, despite his own forays into unconstitutionalism (Camp Finance "Reform"). Again, his sins pale next to theirs.

Fortunately, despite several generations of liberals pushing socialism, the American people are still overall conservative, and they do indeed believe that economics, war aims, etc. are more important than rhetoric and gaffes. As a result, either Hillary or Obama will be a dead duck once they get the nomination, just as every other extreme-leftist has been.
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A blinded view of American society that ignores the facts.

1. Republican Party identity is shrinking and Americans have moved further to the left than the right, ie; antiwar, far less homophobic, sexist, and racist, far less influence by "christian conservatives and evangelics, increasingly anti-corporate, etc.

2. You can call it what you want but the majority of Americans support universal healthcare. Call it socialism if it makes you like.

Buzzwords like "socialism" and "leftist" will only work on the same dummies who bought into shit like Islamophobia. Fortunately, there aren't that many of them.

3. Obama dead-duck when he gets the nomination is just silly. How much money in campaign contributions does McCain have? .. from how many contributers?

4. McCain has redefined "flip-flop" .. which will someday be replaced with the word "McCained." If someone rapidly changes position on you people in the future will say the motherfucker McCained you.

Even the right doesn't really want him, .. he's just all they have to offer.

McCain is easy.
 
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