Obama's fireside chats

As Churchill said, "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

Regarding his intention to "dialog" with America's enemies without preconditions, Obama said: "I trust the American people to understand that it is not weakness, but wisdom to talk not just to our friends, but to our enemies, like Roosevelt did, and Kennedy did, and Truman did."

This statement indicates ignorance of the past, or a studied attempt at deceit.

The enemies Roosevelt supposedly "talked to" were Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, and Hideki Tojo.

There is no record of FDR ever talking with any of them.

Truman did not chat with the Axis, either. He ended the war with two atomic bombs.

Truman was still president when North Korea invaded South Korea. Truman's response was not a chat with Kim Il Sung. He sent troops.

Perhaps Obama is thinking of the talks FDR and Churchill had with Stalin in Tehran or the Yalta and Potsdam conferences.

Few historians think Yalta and Potsdam, which condemned generations of Eastern Europeans to tyranny, are something we ought to emulate.

Eastern Europeans apparently don't think so either, as evidenced by the wholesale defection of the former Soviet bloc.

When Stalin's plans for world domination became clear to him, Truman ordered the Berlin airlift and set the Marshall Plan into motion.

Obama is on slighty firmer ground regarding Kennedy's willingness to "talk with our enemies".

Kennedy met Nikita Khruschev in 1961.

Elie Abel, wrote a widely-respected history of the Cuban missile crisis (The Missiles of October). He wrote: "There is reason to believe that Khrushchev took Kennedy's measure in June 1961, and decided this was a young man who would shrink from hard decisions," Abel wrote. "There is no evidence to support the belief that Khrushchev ever questioned America's power. He questioned only the president's readiness to use it. As he once told Robert Frost, he came to believe that Americans are 'too liberal to fight.'"

That judgment was supported by New York Times columnist James Reston, who was present. Reston wrote: "Khrushchev had studied the events of the Bay of Pigs. He would have understood if Kennedy had left Castro alone, or destroyed him, but when Kennedy was rash enough to strike at Cuba but not bold enough to finish the job, Khrushchev decided he was dealing with an inexperienced young leader who could be intimidated and blackmailed."

If Krushchev disdained a man with Kennedy's resume, what will todays' enemies make of an invitation to chat with Obama, a man with little experience, who has been in Congress less than four years?
 
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Dear two-time Bush voter:

I literally felt my IQ dropping after reading the first few sentences, and had to stop.
 
I understand.

Just repeat the phrase "change I can believe in, change I can believe in, change I can believe in, change I can believe in, change I can believe in", and don't worry about anything else.
 
"If Krushchev disdained a man with Kennedy's resume, what will todays' enemies make of an invitation to chat with Obama, aman with little experience, who has been in Congress less than four years?"

You're asking that...after 7+ years of Bush representing us around the world?
 
As Churchill said, "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

Regarding his intention to "dialog" with America's enemies without preconditions, Obama said: "I trust the American people to understand that it is not weakness, but wisdom to talk not just to our friends, but to our enemies, like Roosevelt did, and Kennedy did, and Truman did."

This statement indicates ignorance of the past, or a studied attempt at deceit.

The enemies Roosevelt supposedly "talked to" were Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, and Hideki Tojo.

There is no record of FDR ever talking with any of them.
Yes but following FDR not talking to any one of those "leaders" we were treated to the bloodiest and most destructive War in history.

Truman was still president when North Korea invaded South Korea. Truman's response was not a chat with Kim Il Sung. He sent troops.
Yes you have most definitely illustrated the pattern here, not talking to ones enemies generally results in War.

Obama is on slighty firmer ground regarding Kennedy's willingness to "talk with our enemies".

Kennedy met Nikita Khruschev in 1961.
And apparently talking to ones enemies avoids it (or heightens the probability of avoiding it).

Unfortunately it appears that author of the OP (based on his/her conclusions) is ignoring both Mr. Churchill AND History.
 
I wish it were that easy

How very tempting it is to conclude that "talking equals peace", and believe that war is the inevitable result of abrogated negotiations.

Consider these facts:

China's government held "talks" with the Imperial Japanese in 1934.

In 1937, China was largely overrun byJapanese invaders. Google "rape of Nanking" for the details.

The League of Nations talked with Mussolini in 1934. Ethiopia became an Italian vassal state in just 7 days.

Great Britain did talk to Hitler, as some may recall.

The result, as declared by the PM? "Peace in our time". Ask some Poles and Czechoslovaks how that turned out.

The United Nations - and the United Sates - engaged in lengthy negotiations with Saddam for years.

After numerous aborted weapons inspections and broken agreements, Iraq's dictator continued to rattle his saber and refused to comply with the conditions specified in dozens of resoultions.

So much for the efficiacy of dialog with rapacious murderers. Apparently talk without action is perceived as weakness in some quarters.

There has rarely been an armed conflict that did not follow diplomatic efforts.

I can't think of any. So, while diplomacy can be a way of avoiding bloodshed, the parties will stop when they see no risk or value in continuing to talk. At some point, if talks break down, a leader has to be willing to commit to armed resistance, or surrender their nation's interests.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad hasn't shown much willingness to negotiate so far.

How much are you willing to stake on Obama's silver tongue?
 
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Yeah certainly if the Nationalists had attacked the Japanese in 1934 China would've won and it wouldn't have only meant easier and earlier victory for the communists.
 
How very tempting it is to conclude that "talking equals peace", and believe that war is the inevitable result of abrogated negotiations.

Consider these facts:

China's government held "talks" with the Imperial Japanese in 1934.

In 1937, China was largely overrun byJapanese invaders. Google "rape of Nanking" for the details.

The League of Nations talked with Mussolini in 1934. Ethiopia became an Italian vassal state in just 7 days.

Great Britain did talk to Hitler, as some may recall.

The result, as declared by the PM? "Peace in our time". Ask some Poles and Czechoslovaks how that turned out.

The United Nations - and the United Sates - engaged in lengthy negotiations with Saddam for years.

After numerous aborted weapons inspections and broken agreements, Iraq's dictator continued to rattle his saber and refused to comply with the conditions specified in dozens of resultions.

So much for the efficiacy of dialog with rapacious murderers. Apparently talk without action is perceived as weakness in some quarters.

There has rarely been an armed conflict that did not follow diplomatic efforts.

I can't think of any. So, while diplomacy can be a way of avoiding bloodshed, the parties will stop when they see no risk or value in continuing to talk. At some point, if talks break down, a leader has to be willing to commit to armed resistance, or surrender their nation's interests.

So is it your assertion that Diplomacy is the cause of armed conflict ? or that it is somehow a waste of time and the ultimate solution is just to start pulling guns whenever friction between nation states arises ?

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad hasn't shown much willingness to negotiate so far.
This is probably more a factor of what he perceives he has to gain or lose by negotiating than anything else. Ultimately he will pursue a course that he feels will be to his regimes best advantage and given the rheotric of the current American Political Campaigns (I believe the words "Obliterate Iran" may have been used), I for one can certainly understand his reticence with respect to engaging in negotiations with the United States.

How much are you willing to stake on Obama's silver tongue?
Depends, I've never actually heard him detail what approach he'd take when/if he negotiates with "our enemies" so it's difficult to say what his odds for success would be.
 
"I trust the American people to understand that it is not weakness, but wisdom to talk not just to our friends, but to our enemies, like Roosevelt did, and Kennedy did, and Truman did."

I think I demonstrated that our Presidents named above did not "talk not just to our friends, but to our enemies". All 3 men named by Obama were considerably more experienced than he is, and they didn't think our issues with the Soviets, the Axis leaders and the North Koreans (and the ChiComs) could be solved by a frank, manly chat between leaders.

According to our esteemed colleague (above), FDR, Truman, and Kennedy all failed to "talk not to just to our friends, but to our enemies" and plunged us into war.

That view ignores the massive diplomatic efforts preceding the aggression that began WWII, the Korean conflict, and fuelled the near-miss of the Cuban missile crisis.

It's worth considering what might have happened had JFK not mobilized our navy to embargo Cuba, thus forcing Krushchev to reconsider his earlier assessment of America's will to resist Soviet aggression.

Unfortunately, that will to resist was tested again, just a few years later, in Vietnam, and we lost the political will to fight.

That failure echoes today in the dismissive, comtemptuous dismissal of America by it's enemies.

Do you think ambitious men and women in Tehran, Beijing, and Moscow take our political divisions into account when they draw their own conclusions about the risks involved in hurting America and Americans?
 
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As Churchill said, "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

Regarding his intention to "dialog" with America's enemies without preconditions, Obama said: "I trust the American people to understand that it is not weakness, but wisdom to talk not just to our friends, but to our enemies, like Roosevelt did, and Kennedy did, and Truman did."

This statement indicates ignorance of the past, or a studied attempt at deceit.

The enemies Roosevelt supposedly "talked to" were Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, and Hideki Tojo.

There is no record of FDR ever talking with any of them.

Truman did not chat with the Axis, either. He ended the war with two atomic bombs.

Truman was still president when North Korea invaded South Korea. Truman's response was not a chat with Kim Il Sung. He sent troops.

Perhaps Obama is thinking of the talks FDR and Churchill had with Stalin in Tehran or the Yalta and Potsdam conferences.

Few historians think Yalta and Potsdam, which condemned generations of Eastern Europeans to tyranny, are something we ought to emulate.

Eastern Europeans apparently don't think so either, as evidenced by the wholesale defection of the former Soviet bloc.

When Stalin's plans for world domination became clear to him, Truman ordered the Berlin airlift and set the Marshall Plan into motion.

Obama is on slighty firmer ground regarding Kennedy's willingness to "talk with our enemies".

Kennedy met Nikita Khruschev in 1961.

Elie Abel, wrote a widely-respected history of the Cuban missile crisis (The Missiles of October). He wrote: "There is reason to believe that Khrushchev took Kennedy's measure in June 1961, and decided this was a young man who would shrink from hard decisions," Abel wrote. "There is no evidence to support the belief that Khrushchev ever questioned America's power. He questioned only the president's readiness to use it. As he once told Robert Frost, he came to believe that Americans are 'too liberal to fight.'"

That judgment was supported by New York Times columnist James Reston, who was present. Reston wrote: "Khrushchev had studied the events of the Bay of Pigs. He would have understood if Kennedy had left Castro alone, or destroyed him, but when Kennedy was rash enough to strike at Cuba but not bold enough to finish the job, Khrushchev decided he was dealing with an inexperienced young leader who could be intimidated and blackmailed."

If Krushchev disdained a man with Kennedy's resume, what will todays' enemies make of an invitation to chat with Obama, a man with little experience, who has been in Congress less than four years?

With your permission, I'd like to steal this for another board?
 
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