Once Again EU Contitution Up For A Vote-NO!

Annie

Not So Junior Member
Let's face it, the EU Constitution will eventually become law, but only when the citizens have no say about it. Now it's Ireland's turn to vote no, with the newly renamed mess.

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_06_08-2008_06_14.shtml#1213369165

[David Kopel, June 13, 2008 at 10:59am] Trackbacks
How the Irish Saved Civilization, Again

The Irish Times reports that the Lisbon Treaty has been defeated in a referendum held in the Republic of Ireland. The Lisbon Treaty is a new version of the proposed EU Constitution, which had previously been rejected by the voters of the France and the Netherlands. This time, the French and Dutch governments refused to allow a popular vote. In the U.K., the Labour Party had promised a referendum, but that promise was broken. Former French President Valery Giscard d'Estaing explained: "Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly... All the earlier [EU Constitution] proposals will be in the new text [Lisbon Treaty], but will be hidden and disguised in some way."

Treaty proponents lamented that Ireland, with only 1% of the EU population, could derail a 27-nation treaty. But the very fact that only 1% of the EU's population was allowed to vote on a treaty which would massively reduce national sovereignty and democratic accountability was itself an illustration of the enormous "democratic deficit" of the EU in general, and the Lisbon Treaty in particular. According to French President Nicolas Sarkozy, the Lisbon Treaty would be defeated in every EU nation if referenda were allowed.

The referendum debate in Ireland involved some Irish-specific issues, such as the Treaty's impact on farmers, its threat to Ireland's official foreign policy of neutrality, and the danger that Ireland might be forced to raise its low corporate income tax rate of 12.5% (which almost everyone agrees has been an essential part of the economic success of the Celtic Tiger). But the broader opposition seemed to stem from the sheer incomprehensibility of the Treaty. Even Taoiseich (Prime Minister) Brian Cowen admitted that he had not read the Treaty, which is over 400 pages long and deliberately written to be obscure. Treaty proponents included both of the two largest political parties (Fianna Fail and Fine Gael), and they appealed to the Irish people's strong support of trade with Europe, and to Ireland's optimistically internationalist orientation.

A group named Libertas was formed to lead the opposition, and Libertas agreed with the principles of international trade and Ireland's integration into Europe. But Libertas was successful at convincing Irish voters that the Treaty was perilous threat to the democratic sovereignty which is the glory of European civilization, and for which the Irish had struggled for so many centuries to win for themselves.

More coverage at the excellent British site EU Referendum (which astute readers may remember for its outstanding work in exposing media complicity in cooperating with Hezbollah to create staged pictures of the alleged Israeli atrocities at Qana, Lebanon).
 
The people who oppose the EU constitution are like the anti-federalists who wanted America to remain in the dark ages for all eternity. Let's face it - without each other, Europe is just a bunch of ragtag states. Together, they are greater than America. They should think about that.
 
The people who oppose the EU constitution are like the anti-federalists who wanted America to remain in the dark ages for all eternity. Let's face it - without each other, Europe is just a bunch of ragtag states. Together, they are greater than America. They should think about that.

You collectivist cockbreath. Do you ever think about what your saying?
 
Divided Europe is just as pathetic as United Europe. It is a shithole, populated by stupid people who have failed as a civilization. That is why my ancestors left Europe and came to America. The residents of modern Europe are the decendents of those who didn't leave or were dumb enough to immigrate there instead of somewhere else.

BTW, Watermark. A United Europe would be the fruition of the efforts that martyrs like Napoleon, Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin faught for...
 
Divided Europe is just as pathetic as United Europe. It is a shithole, populated by stupid people who have failed as a civilization. That is why my ancestors left Europe and came to America. The residents of modern Europe are the decendents of those who didn't leave or were dumb enough to immigrate there instead of somewhere else.

Actually I'd be willing to bet that the average American is far dumber than the average European. Europes markets are booming, Americas are dwindling. Our total economy is already smaller, and within a few years they will beat us per capita also.
 
Actually I'd be willing to bet that the average American is far dumber than the average European. Europes markets are booming, Americas are dwindling. Our total economy is already smaller, and within a few years they will beat us per capita also.


Or they'll get killed off by the Muslims the way Charles Darwin intended it...
 
Or they'll get killed off by the Muslims the way Charles Darwin intended it...

Sensationalist trash. Europe is secular. Unlike Christians, however, they do not subscribe to social darwinism. This has prevented many of the pitfalls that the new feudalism of American society has endured.
 
Seems many in Europe applaud the Irish and are jealous they got a say:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...BACK?SITE=DCUSN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

June 14, 2008
Would-be voters support Irish veto of EU treaty
By SHAWN POGATCHNIK
Associated Press Writer

Political leaders across Europe were shaking their heads in frustration this weekend at the Irish voters' veto of the latest European Union treaty. But many of their citizens weren't.

Ordinary Spaniards, Dutch, French and Britons, who wish they could get the same chance, might also say "no" to the cold, distant heart of Europe.

"Spaniards feel Spanish, the French feel French, and the Dutch feel Dutch. We will never all be in the same boat," said Eduardo Herranz, a 41-year-old salesman in Madrid, Spain.

Herranz said Europeans were right to feel alienated from bureaucrats in the EU base of Brussels, Belgium.

"You don't decide on anything, and you don't get to vote on anything they are talking about," he said of the average voter. "In day-to-day life, out on the street, the European Union is something very distant."

The emotional disconnect between EU commissioners and their 495 million citizens has never been more evident than in the rejection of the Treaty of Lisbon Thursday by voters in Ireland, long considered one of the most pro-European voices in the 27-nation bloc.

The complex, 260-page document sought to change EU powers and institutions to keep them in line with its rapid growth into Eastern Europe, but like all EU documents requires unanimity to be ratified.

While all other EU members are ratifying it only through their national governments, Ireland is constitutionally obliged to subject all EU treaties to a popular vote. The unexpectedly strong "no" result announced Friday effectively acts as a veto.

The EU's political establishment is already calling on all other members to keep ratifying the treaty through their governments alone while calculating what it will take to make Ireland vote again, only this time "yes."...
One way or another they'll try to force it through, calling it a democratically arrived at agreement...
 
Yeah that's why the middle east is so prosperous.

I was talking about regional conquest, not economics. Naturally, the future of European economics will be sad under Islamic rule, but then, how much longer can secular Europe afford to pay for itself?

Consider that its illegal to even question Islam in France, and in the UK there are various double-standards being written into the laws to protect Muslim sensitivity. And its more-or-less the same everywhere else.
 
Well, in the first American presidential election the voter turnout was less than 1%. Voters got absolutely no say on the American constitution. They certainly would've rejected it if they did.

Women, most black men, many non-land owning men, were not franchised. I thought we'd evolved a bit since then?
 
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