Panel calls for new war powers legislation

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080708/ap_on_go_ot/war_powers_study

WASHINGTON - Congress should pass legislation to require the president to consult lawmakers before going to war, according to a bipartisan study group chaired by former secretaries of state James Baker III and ****** Christopher.

In a report released Tuesday, the panel says the current law governing the nation's war powers has failed to promote cooperation between the executive and legislative branch. It says the 1973 resolution should be repealed and replaced with new legislation that would require the president to inform Congress of any plans to engage in "significant armed conflict," such as operations lasting longer than a week.

In turn, Congress would act within 30 days, either approving or disapproving the action.

Baker, who served as in the first Bush administration and co-chaired the 2006 Iraq Study Group, said the proposal isn't intended to resolve constitutional disputes between the White House and Congress on who should decide whether the nation fights.

"What we aim to do with this statute is to create a process that will encourage the two branches to cooperate and consult in a way that is both practical and true to the spirit of the Constitution," he said in a statement.

A new joint House and Senate committee would be established to review the president's justification for war. To do so, the committee would be granted access to highly classified information.

Congress' involvement in approving combat operations became a central issue in the Iraq debate last year, when Democrats tried to force President Bush to end the war. While Congress had authorized combat in Iraq, Democrats said the resolution approved only the invasion and not a five-year counterinsurgency.

After taking control of Congress in January 2007, Democrats tried to cap force levels and set a timetable for withdrawals. While they lacked a veto-proof majority to put the restrictions into law, the White House argued that such legislation would have violated the Constitution by infringing upon the president's right as commander in chief to protect the nation. Democrats disagreed, contending there was ample precedence.

The one surefire way for Congress to have ended the war was to cut off money for combat operations — a step most Democrats weren't willing to make because they feared doing so would have hurt troops in harms' way, or at least be perceived by voters that way.

The plan identified by Baker and Christopher, who served as secretary of State under President Clinton, would not necessarily resolve such issues in the future. But it would create a consultative process between the White House and Congress that currently does not exist. Also, calling on Congress to respond would exert significant political pressure on a president if he ignored lawmakers' wishes.

The panel studied the issue for more than a year and consulted more than three dozen experts. Other members of the panel include former Democratic Rep. Lee Hamilton, who in 2006 led the Iraq Study Group with Baker; former Attorney General Edwin Meese III, and Strobe Talbott, former deputy secretary of State.

The Miller Center of Public Affairs at the University of Virginia sponsored the study.
 
No consultation – Congress declares war, period. They have abdicated their constitutional duties for decades now.
 
If this existed then as they want it now, the congress would have STILL given their go ahead on the war. We are kidding ourselve if we think that even two years after 9-11 many Senators and Reps would have had the cajones to say "wait a minute, this has nothing to do with the war on terror." Not a good position for re-election and every single one of our members of congress want nothing more than to be re-elected.
 
If this existed then as they want it now, the congress would have STILL given their go ahead on the war. We are kidding ourselve if we think that even two years after 9-11 many Senators and Reps would have had the cajones to say "wait a minute, this has nothing to do with the war on terror." Not a good position for re-election and every single one of our members of congress want nothing more than to be re-elected.

Agreed.

But the War Powers Act should be abolished.
 
Agreed, straight up declarations of war by congress and nothing else. That being said, we would STILL be in Iraq.
I don't think we would. I don't think they'd get 2/3. And I would, were I king, set the limit for war at 2/3 approval from the Senate.
 
What do you mean? I think they should repeal the WPA and only allow war after a formal Declaration.

Just interested in if you thought this was any better at all than what we have.

I agree with you, no war without a declaration.
 
Naah longer than that. Subs and planes have nukes.

usc

the sub's missiles can be launched from underwater and it does not take that long for a sub to get to launch depth - the missiles do not take more than 35 minutes to reach target

as for the aircraft, they would not likely get off the ground or out of the us of a before a nuke blast takes them out, but if they do and get to target, then it will take longer...

now if a nuclear strike is made at a target other than china or russia, it will be over very quickly - remember that the president is also the commander-in-chief and could order DEFCON I and launch before congress could get back from lunch
 
Sorry, but neither the current war powers act nor this proposed version would make any difference in the long run. The powers of the President as CinC were determined at the beginning of the Civil War and the decision has not been successfully challenged - even with a predominately liberal SCOTUS.

At the beginning of the Civil War, President Lincoln sent out units of the navy to blockade certain southern ports. He did so prior to the declaration of hostilities. His actions were challenged, and the case taken to SCOTUS. SCOTUS determined that the President, as CinC of armed forces, has the authority to deploy those forces, in times of emergency (where the President determines the presence of emergency) without formal declaration of war. (Formal declaration of war being the only military authority of Congress.) Essentially, SCOTUS said that the President, being in command of the military, has full authority to use the military as he sees fit.

The decision of SCOTUS was challenged twice during the Korean war (which was engaged in without congressional approval), and 3 times during the Viet Nam war (also engaged in without congressional approval). All 5 times, the original decision of SCOTUS was upheld.

Contrary to what seems to be popular belief here, the purpose of the War Powers Act of 1973 was NOT to allow the process of declaring war to be short-circuited. The purpose was quite the opposite: to attempt to prevent future presidents from short circuiting the war declaration process. It was written in an attempt to prevent wars like the Korean War and Viet Nam war from occurring through the sole power of the President. The requirement to ask for congressional approval for deploying military forces longer than 60 days was designed to reign in the military authority of the President, NOT to extend those powers.

Additionally, unlike some seem to think, the War Powers Act is NOT a law passed by Congress. It is, rather, a RESOLUTION passed by congress. They passed it as a resolution because they knew such a LAW would not stand up to scrutiny.
 
Naah longer than that. Subs and planes have nukes.

Sorry, but neither the current war powers act nor this proposed version would make any difference in the long run. The powers of the President as CinC were determined at the beginning of the Civil War and the decision has not been successfully challenged - even with a predominately liberal SCOTUS.

At the beginning of the Civil War, President Lincoln sent out units of the navy to blockade certain southern ports. He did so prior to the declaration of hostilities. His actions were challenged, and the case taken to SCOTUS. SCOTUS determined that the President, as CinC of armed forces, has the authority to deploy those forces, in times of emergency (where the President determines the presence of emergency) without formal declaration of war. (Formal declaration of war being the only military authority of Congress.) Essentially, SCOTUS said that the President, being in command of the military, has full authority to use the military as he sees fit.

The decision of SCOTUS was challenged twice during the Korean war (which was engaged in without congressional approval), and 3 times during the Viet Nam war (also engaged in without congressional approval). All 5 times, the original decision of SCOTUS was upheld.

Contrary to what seems to be popular belief here, the purpose of the War Powers Act of 1973 was NOT to allow the process of declaring war to be short-circuited. The purpose was quite the opposite: to attempt to prevent future presidents from short circuiting the war declaration process. It was written in an attempt to prevent wars like the Korean War and Viet Nam war from occurring through the sole power of the President. The requirement to ask for congressional approval for deploying military forces longer than 60 days was designed to reign in the military authority of the President, NOT to extend those powers.

Additionally, unlike some seem to think, the War Powers Act is NOT a law passed by Congress. It is, rather, a RESOLUTION passed by congress. They passed it as a resolution because they knew such a LAW would not stand up to scrutiny.

gl

could congress decide to remove a president that used the military without its approval

of course in the event of global nuclear war, would enough of the government or the voters be left to do anything about it...

but, as near as i can tell, nothing could stop the president from launching nuclear missiles less than a complete revolt by the military
 
I don't think we would launch all we have in the first wave. Just the ones likely to be targeted. Some sub missles would be held back for missed / intercepted or unknown tatgets of opportunity

DR. Strangelove...This would spawn a tunnel gap.
.Males would have to mate with multiple females, etc...
 
Sorry, but neither the current war powers act nor this proposed version would make any difference in the long run. The powers of the President as CinC were determined at the beginning of the Civil War and the decision has not been successfully challenged - even with a predominately liberal SCOTUS.

At the beginning of the Civil War, President Lincoln sent out units of the navy to blockade certain southern ports. He did so prior to the declaration of hostilities. His actions were challenged, and the case taken to SCOTUS. SCOTUS determined that the President, as CinC of armed forces, has the authority to deploy those forces, in times of emergency (where the President determines the presence of emergency) without formal declaration of war. (Formal declaration of war being the only military authority of Congress.) Essentially, SCOTUS said that the President, being in command of the military, has full authority to use the military as he sees fit.

The decision of SCOTUS was challenged twice during the Korean war (which was engaged in without congressional approval), and 3 times during the Viet Nam war (also engaged in without congressional approval). All 5 times, the original decision of SCOTUS was upheld.

Contrary to what seems to be popular belief here, the purpose of the War Powers Act of 1973 was NOT to allow the process of declaring war to be short-circuited. The purpose was quite the opposite: to attempt to prevent future presidents from short circuiting the war declaration process. It was written in an attempt to prevent wars like the Korean War and Viet Nam war from occurring through the sole power of the President. The requirement to ask for congressional approval for deploying military forces longer than 60 days was designed to reign in the military authority of the President, NOT to extend those powers.

Additionally, unlike some seem to think, the War Powers Act is NOT a law passed by Congress. It is, rather, a RESOLUTION passed by congress. They passed it as a resolution because they knew such a LAW would not stand up to scrutiny.

I think it would stand up to scrutiny if we, for instance, said that any military expedition lasting longer than a week that the president had not informed congress about would immediately have all funding revoked.
 
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