Prison of Shame

C

Cypress

Well-known member
I've been called everything from a traitor to a hack, for suggesting that many inmates in gitmo were guilty of little more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And were turned in for bounty money. Gitmo has probably created more terrorists. Its a moral stain on america's image. Imagine being held for 6 years without charges, possibly abused, and you were innocent. You yourself, or some of your family members might be a tad pissed off.

A prison of shame

Nicholas D. Kristof

Reliable information is still scarce about Guantánamo, but increasingly we're gaining glimpses of life there - and they are painful to read.......Mahvish Rukhsana Khan, an American woman of Afghan descent who worked as an interpreter, has written a book to be published next month, "My Guantánamo Diary," that is wrenching to read. She describes a pediatrician who returned to Afghanistan in 2003 to help rebuild his country - and was then arrested by Americans, beaten, doused with icy water and paraded around naked. Finally, after three years, officials apparently decided he was innocent and sent him home.

A powerful new book about Guantánamo, by an American lawyer named Steven Wax, is summed up by its title: "Kafka Comes to America."

The new material suggests two essential truths about Guantánamo:

First, most of the inmates were probably innocent all along, but Pakistanis or Afghans turned them over to America in exchange for large cash rewards. The moment we offered $25,000 rewards for Al Qaeda supporters, any Arab in the region risked being kidnapped and turned over as a terrorism suspect.

Second, torture was routine, especially early on. That's why more than 100 prisoners have died in American custody in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantánamo.

One of the men still in Guantánamo is Abdul Hamid al-Ghizzawi. He is a Libyan who had been running a bakery in Afghanistan with his Afghan wife. Bounty hunters turned him over to the United States as a terrorism suspect, and he has been in custody for more than six years.

Granted, it can be hard to figure out what version to believe. When I started writing about Guantánamo several years ago, I thought the inmates might be lying and the Pentagon telling the truth. No doubt some inmates lie, and some surely are terrorists.

But over time - and it's painful to write this - I've found the inmates to be more credible than American officials.

Both Condoleezza Rice and Robert Gates have pushed to shut down Guantánamo because it undermines America's standing and influence.

They have been overruled by Dick Cheney and other hard-liners. In reality, it would take an exceptional enemy to damage America's image and interests as much as President George W. Bush and Cheney already have with Guantánamo.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/05/04/opinion/edkristof.php
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surprisingly epidermal, the personal opinions and insults of rightwing republicans and rightwing libertarian ronbots doesn't matter to me. I wear it as a badge of honor.
 
I don't get why tools like Cypress think that "Epidermal" is such a witty play on my name.

You're changing 3/4ths of the word and it's still not funny. Pathetic liberals.

Epicurus was a classical philosopher, but clearly tools like you who type "Epidermal lolZ!" wouldn't know anything about his paradigm or his beliefs.
 
Only rightwingers, and a few ronbots call me that. Very telling.

I'm cool with that. Cheers! :clink:

anything to add on Gitmo? Or were you just here to sling mud? Something you always complain about when other do it?
 
I'm mostly just here for the mudslinging.

Anyone with a brain agrees that Gitmo should be closed, if only to protect our reputation internationally.
 
Epicurus said:
I'm mostly just here for the mudslinging.
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Aren't we all. I'm here to mock rightwingers, george bush, and their iraq war. If that bugs some people, I'm afraid it doesn't bother me.

Anyone with a brain agrees that Gitmo should be closed, if only to protect our reputation internationally.
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Ditto. Torture, and detainment of INNOCENT people is reprehensible. 6 years is long enough. Give the allegedly guilty ones a trial and close the damn place.
 
Cypress said:
Only rightwingers, and a few ronbots call me that. Very telling.

I'm cool with that. Cheers! :clink:

anything to add on Gitmo? Or were you just here to sling mud? Something you always complain about when other do it?
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Whats wrong with "ronbots" where you find pride in slinging mud at them?

Its pretty interesting that YOU would judge anyone on their alignment with a person or position, considering you place your party ahead of eveything else in the world.
 
Cypress said:
I've been called everything from a traitor to a hack, for suggesting that many inmates in gitmo were guilty of little more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And were turned in for bounty money. Gitmo has probably created more terrorists. Its a moral stain on america's image. Imagine being held for 6 years without charges, possibly abused, and you were innocent. You yourself, or some of your family members might be a tad pissed off.
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The only people surptised by Gitmo is Americans.

Don't act as though Gitmo is some anomaly in American history, society, or culture. It is not.

Gitmo is as American as apple pie my brother, and only cognitive dissonance and Hollywood versions of American history would lead one to believe otherwise.

A couple points ..

We have our own terrorist training camp on American soil .. it's in Columbus Georgia as a matter of fact. We have trained and funded some of the worst terrorists in the world and unleashed them on Latin America and throughout the world like a plague.

We created, trained, and funded Saddam and the Taliban .. and a bunch of other nasty motherfuckers.

Today, America is the greatest prison nation the world has ever known .. we like prisons .. and we like the slave labor that comes out of them.

We know our criminal system is unjust in sentencing and arrests .. proven, documented, researched up the ass .. proven .. but its not even a campaign issue or its costs.

To the American people .. out of sight, out of mind.

But just because we don't think about it and rarely take time to look in the mirror, doesn't mean that evil is not our friend.

Gitmo?

We send innocent people to foreign lands to get tortured .. when we don't feel like torturing them ourselves.

Gitmo?

We just mass-murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people for profit .. including women, children, and babies .. some of whom we MELTED.

Gitmo?
 
Beefy: Whats wrong with "ronbots" where you find pride in slinging mud at them?

Its pretty interesting that YOU would judge anyone on their alignment with a person or position, considering you place your party ahead of eveything else in the world.
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Comment noted, and dismissed, Superfreak.

Got anything to add on Gitmo?

blackascoal said:
The only people surptised by Gitmo is Americans.

Don't act as though Gitmo is some anomaly in American history, society, or culture. It is not.

Gitmo is as American as apple pie my brother, and only cognitive dissonance and Hollywood versions of American history would lead one to believe otherwise.

A couple points ..

We have our own terrorist training camp on American soil .. it's in Columbus Georgia as a matter of fact. We have trained and funded some of the worst terrorists in the world and unleashed them on Latin America and throughout the world like a plague.

We created, trained, and funded Saddam and the Taliban .. and a bunch of other nasty motherfuckers.

Today, America is the greatest prison nation the world has ever known .. we like prisons .. and we like the slave labor that comes out of them.

We know our criminal system is unjust in sentencing and arrests .. proven, documented, researched up the ass .. proven .. but its not even a campaign issue or its costs.

To the American people .. out of sight, out of mind.

But just because we don't think about it and rarely take time to look in the mirror, doesn't mean that evil is not our friend.

Gitmo?

We send innocent people to foreign lands to get tortured .. when we don't feel like torturing them ourselves.

Gitmo?

We just mass-murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people for profit .. including women, children, and babies .. some of whom we MELTED.

Gitmo?
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Great points. I agree that we should not be shocked, nor think Gitmo is some kind of singularity; an anomaly. Many of us spent 6 years complaining that Gitmo was an affront to american morality and justice. Only to have to run gauntlets of "traitor!" comments.

As you point out, the Negroponte and Reagan rightwing death squads are a poorly documented, but entirely horrifying episode in american history. Definetly all presidents, from both parties have a lot of blood on their hands.
 
Cypress said:
Comment noted, and dismissed, Superfreak.

Got anything to add on Gitmo?

Great points. I agree that we should not be shocked, nor think Gitmo is some kind of singularity; an anomaly. Many of us spent 6 years complaining that Gitmo was an affront to american morality and justice. Only to have to run gauntlets of "traitor!" comments.

As you point out, the Negroponte and Reagan rightwing death squads are a poorly documented, but entirely horrifying episode in american history. Definetly all presidents, from both parties have a lot of blood on their hands.
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This thread should be titled "Nation of Shame"
 
It will take the US many years to get rid of the shame inflicted by BushCheney. If you elect McCain make that many, many years maybe never. Not that some give a rat's arse I know, the insular thinkers who believe the rest of the world can't do without the US. Personally I llke to think of BushCheney as a pair of robbers who stole the first election and cheated their way into the second election. So, I hope rehab doesn't take too long for the US to be what it used to be rather than what it is now.
 
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