"Ready from day one"

Onceler

New member
Frank Rich has another great column in the NYT this morning about the emptiness of this claim from the Hillary camp. She has been out-maneuvered & out-managed in this campaign from the start (day one, as it were). Obama has consistently set up more offices, had better field organization & spent more wisely in each of the successive primary states as the season has moved along. She even said the other day that she had people "still trying to figure out" the complicated TX caucus/primary process.

She has run one of the worst & most mis-managed campaigns that I can personally remember. She's clearly torn between advisers at this point, going from "deeply honored to be here with Barak" to "Shame on you Barak" in 48 hours flat. She's never had a consistent message throughout, and, in trying to tear down Obama, has turned her campaign into the anti-hope express.
 
Just looking at each of there campaigns as a benchmark of management style is very telling.

Hillary camp has had firings and shake ups when shes in a pissed off mood. you visibly see her angry then here someone got the ax. The country needs stability in there leader. not a bi-polar.

Not to mention the lack of personal she hired for her campaign. shes been totally outmatched in almost every facet of this primary. Lack of judgment on her part in regards to her staff and strategy should be a very big warning siren to people.
 
Hmm, but just running a slick campaign does not indicate how a candidate will perform if elected now does it ? Or does it do just that ?
 
Hmm, but just running a slick campaign does not indicate how a candidate will perform if elected now does it ? Or does it do just that ?

I know what you're saying, but I think some things can be extrapolated from that. She is, after all, running on her management ability, and sees the role of Presidency much more in a management sense.

She's had to manage 2 major things in her public lifetime: healthcare, and the '08 campaign. You do the math.
 
True but based on empirical evidence a slick campain generally indicates a slick presidency, which is not necessarially a good thing for us. It all depends on the true intentions of the candidate and the power behind them.
 
true.. obama cold be full of shit.. but here is my facts

Hillary runs on management but has piss poor management track record that would be fired as CEO of a company in a year.
mccain is a war monger
obama runs on change with some good ideas and wanting to move to center. Doris goodwin says every good president we have had ran on change.

Id rather give this potential great leader a chance. Its not like we have some close second here where it wouldn't make sense to take the chance.
 
True but based on empirical evidence a slick campain generally indicates a slick presidency, which is not necessarially a good thing for us. It all depends on the true intentions of the candidate and the power behind them.

Well, I disagree with the characterization. "Slick" has very negative connotations. I might opt for "well-managed."
 
Frank Rich has another great column in the NYT this morning about the emptiness of this claim from the Hillary camp. She has been out-maneuvered & out-managed in this campaign from the start (day one, as it were). Obama has consistently set up more offices, had better field organization & spent more wisely in each of the successive primary states as the season has moved along. She even said the other day that she had people "still trying to figure out" the complicated TX caucus/primary process.

She has run one of the worst & most mis-managed campaigns that I can personally remember. She's clearly torn between advisers at this point, going from "deeply honored to be here with Barak" to "Shame on you Barak" in 48 hours flat. She's never had a consistent message throughout, and, in trying to tear down Obama, has turned her campaign into the anti-hope express.

The ready from day one is lame and empty rhetoric.

I think Rudy Guilliani ran the worst campaign in recent history.
 
Just looking at each of there campaigns as a benchmark of management style is very telling.

Hillary camp has had firings and shake ups when shes in a pissed off mood. you visibly see her angry then here someone got the ax. The country needs stability in there leader. not a bi-polar.

Not to mention the lack of personal she hired for her campaign. shes been totally outmatched in almost every facet of this primary. Lack of judgment on her part in regards to her staff and strategy should be a very big warning siren to people.

Chap you really need to get a grip on yourself. What is wrong with you? John McCain did the same thing last year. His whole team was out, It's called a "shake up". It happens all of the time in campaigns. What you'll find is that it doesn't happen in campaigns that are winning, and that's why you haven't seen it in Obama's.

She's not on an emotional rollercoaster and she's not unstable or bi-polar. That's sexist horseshit, when are you going to stop this????

She's a politician running a campaign, and she hasn't done anything, nothing, that 50 fucking men haven't done before her, on every single count, and with no attention called to it. Come on, read up on political history or something. This is getting outrageous.
 
Frank Rich has another great column in the NYT this morning about the emptiness of this claim from the Hillary camp. She has been out-maneuvered & out-managed in this campaign from the start (day one, as it were). Obama has consistently set up more offices, had better field organization & spent more wisely in each of the successive primary states as the season has moved along. She even said the other day that she had people "still trying to figure out" the complicated TX caucus/primary process.

She has run one of the worst & most mis-managed campaigns that I can personally remember. She's clearly torn between advisers at this point, going from "deeply honored to be here with Barak" to "Shame on you Barak" in 48 hours flat. She's never had a consistent message throughout, and, in trying to tear down Obama, has turned her campaign into the anti-hope express.

Well, who knows. As cypress points out, Rudy has her beat hands down for mismanaged campaigns.

A winning campaign is a good campaign and a losing campaign is a bad one. And all of the experts will find where the losing campaign went wrong. If Obama was down, they'd be harping on the time he said he'd talk to the president of Iran, and Hillary said she wouldn't.

A good example is, I've been hearing for years now, literally, that Gore "deserved" to lose, and one of the reasons was that he was stupid enough to not use Bill on his campaign. The best politician of our time, and Gore sidelines him, right? Come on, you've heard it.

Now, what are you hearing? Oh Hillary made a mistake using Bill. I just laugh. You can't make this shit up.

Everybody knows better the morning after.
 
This is the season of weird campaigns.

I don't think I've ever seen a man that was frontrunner for four years drop to nothing just as soon as the primaries stop.

3 months ago you were crazy if you said McCain was going to be the nominee. We have a shitload of "McCain is dead" posts. I even posted a few. Even whenever he started piling up wins people like Grind couldn't believe it and started giving Romney fellatio.
 
Originally Posted by Cypress

The ready from day one is lame and empty rhetoric.

I think Rudy Guilliani ran the worst campaign in recent history.

Naah Fred Thompson took that Oscar.


See, I don't think so. I knew long ago, based on what I was reading, that Grandpa Thompson was a lazy campaigner, a man without substance, a undistinguished one-term senator, and a man without the neccessary drive to reach the peak of any of his chosen career paths: from acting to the Senate. He was always on the B-list. So, outside of his momentary bump in the polls, I suspected he was doomed to become a late night punch line.

Rudy was America's mayor. He was dominating the polls for two straight years. He had the resources, the infrastructure, and he had Fox News on his side. And he spent 50 million dollars to win one delegate. Nobody....Nobody is in that league of failure. Not Hillary, not John Edwards. Christ, not even Ron Paul.

On Hillary Clinton: One of the few (apparently) correct predictions I ever made, was that she wouldn't be the nominee. I thought early on that Obama was going to be a phenomena, and I think even edwards in a two person race, could have competed against her. Obama is a phenom. Something we haven't seen before. I think he would have crushed ANYBODY in this particular Democratic primary. He's got the midas touch, he's an amazing orator, and he has a sympathetic media. And no doubt, he's managed a good campaign. Imagine what he would have done to Guilliani or Romney. He would probably crush anybody. Yes, Clinton had a lot of establishment money and support. But, the fact that she's even competing on an even par with Obama is a testament to her strength and credibility. I've never been one to think that Hillary hate went much beyond the rightwing, the anti-war crowd, and educated cyberspace armchair pundits. Her favoribility among rank and file working class democrats, latinos, and african americans has always been strong. The Chapdogs and the Superfreaks of cyberspace are not a representative demographic. I think our experiences in cyberspace tend to misinform us as to the depth and scope of hillary hate. Although, admittedly, she is a somewhat polarizing figure. So was George Bush in 2004, and he won the presidency. Bill Clinton was polarizing, but had enough of a governing coalition to become the first two term Democratic president in 50 years. Polarizing is not the death knell of a candidate.

In short, it's entirely possible that Clinton totally mismanaged this campaign. Some seem to think she relied too much on DLC consultants, and not enough on organizing in smaller states. I certainly don't think she's been a disaster. But, a loss is a loss. It won't be looked at kindly. I thought as much as 18 months ago that she wouldn't win a Democratic primary against two extremely strong and charasmatic contenders like Obama and Edwards. But, I'll give her some props for making history and coming a cat's whisker from being the nation's first viable woman candidate for prez.
 
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