Reality check: Obama's surge position...

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The Almighty
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/obama-in-iraq-s-quicksand-11869

To listen to Barack Obama attempt to explain his views on Iraq and the so-called surge is becoming, for those of us who have followed his responses over the last 18 months, something of a spectacle. With every effort, it seems, he is compounding his mistakes in judgment with intellectually dishonest answers, ones which melt away under even minimal scrutiny.

The latest example is Obama's appearance yesterday on Meet the Press. During the interview, host Tom Brokaw played portions of an interview with Obama on January 10, 2007 – the day President Bush's so-called surge strategy was announced – when Obama said this:

I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there; in fact, I think it'll do the reverse.

When asked by Brokaw about this quote and whether the surge has made it possible to withdraw American troops within 16 months, Obama answered:

I mean, I know that there's that little snippet that you ran, but there were also statements made during the course of this debate in which I said there's no doubt that additional U.S. troops could temporarily quell the violence.

The problem with this response is several-fold. First, Brokaw could have played many additional "snippets,” all of which were of Obama opposing the surge and indicating that it would fail. For example, in responding to President Bush’s January 23 State of the Union address, Obama said this:

I don't think the president's strategy is going to work. We went through two weeks of hearings on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee; experts from across the spectrum--military and civilian, conservative and liberal--expressed great skepticism about it. My suggestion to the president has been that the only way we're going to change the dynamic in Iraq and start seeing political commendation is actually if we create a system of phased redeployment.

In July 2007, long after the surge was announced, Obama claimed, "My assessment is that the surge has not worked." And in November 2007, two months after General David Petraeus testified before Congress about the considerable progress we had made because of the surge, Obama argued it was making the situation in Iraq potentially worse:

Finally, in 2006-2007, we started to see that, even after an election, George Bush continued to want to pursue a course that didn't withdraw troops from Iraq but actually doubled them and initiated a surge and at that stage I said very clearly, not only have we not seen improvements, but we're actually worsening, potentially, a situation there.

So Obama’s anti-surge “snippet” was in fact an accurate representation of what he said and believed at the time, and for a long while after that.

As for Obama's statement that "during the course of this debate" he has maintained that "there's no doubt that additional U.S. troops could temporarily quell the violence:" What Obama doesn't say is that he made that claim in a debate in 2008, a year after the surge was announced and well after it was clearly succeeding.

In fact, Obama made his “quelling the violence” statement in an attempt to deny his initial prediction that the surge would cause sectarian violence to worsen. What Obama did in yesterday’s Meet the Press interview, then, is to provide a misleading answer to a previously dishonest answer, in an effort to cover up his spectacularly wrong prediction.

Later in his Meet the Press interview, Obama attempts to offer examples of developments that have decreased violence that are separate and apart from the surge. According to Obama:

for example, in Anbar Province, where we went to visit, the Sunni awakening took place before the surge started, and tribal leaders made a decision that, instead of fighting the Americans, we're going to work with the Americans against al-Qaeda.

It's true that the Anbar Awakening, which Obama recognized only long after the fact, did precede the surge. What Obama didn't say, what the sheiks of Anbar will tell you, is that the surge helped them enormously in their efforts. There was an organic uprising against al Qaeda in Anbar based on al Qaeda's savagery, and we were wise enough to assist those efforts. But Obama will not tell that story, because it would credit a policy he fiercely opposed.

Still later in the Meet the Press interview, Obama states

John McCain's essential focus has been on the tactical issue of sending more troops

This demonstrates Obama's confusion about the scope and nature of the surge. It was not a tactical adjustment; in fact, it was a profound, and much needed, change in strategy.

What Obama doesn't seem to grasp is that what made the surge successful is not merely, or even primarily, an increase in the number of troops; it was a fundamentally new counterinsurgency strategy, one that concentrated on securing the population and, over time, winning their confidence and support.

In the past, American combat troops would secure an area but quickly withdraw, turning it over to the Iraqi Security Forces, which at that time were unprepared to defend the gains we had made. People likened it at the time to a car tire, in the midst of a rain storm, hitting a pothole filled with water; it temporarily expels the water, but once the tire vacates the pothole, it immediately fills up again.

General Petraeus, along with others, dramatically altered our approach, and we have been benefiting from the fruits of those changes ever since.

It would be useful if the man who hopes to be our next commander-in-chief understood the difference between a tactical adjustment and a strategic shift. To argue that the entire course of the Iraq war changed because of an alteration on a "tactical issue" is ridiculous.

There is still more. When Brokaw, citing a recent USA Today editorial, asked Obama why he cannot bring himself to acknowledge the surge worked better than he and other skeptics thought it would and then asked, "What does that stubbornness say about the kind of president that he would be?", Obama replied

Well, listen. I, I actually think that there's no doubt that the violence has gone down more than any of us anticipated, including President Bush and John McCain. If you, if you would--if you had talked to them and, and said, "You know what? We're going to bring down violence to the levels that we have," I think--I, I, I suspect USA Today's own editorial board wouldn't have anticipated that. That's not a, that's not a hard thing to acknowledge, that the situations have improved more rapidly than we had anticipated. That doesn't change the broader strategic questions that we've got to deal with.


It's true that the surge worked sooner than anyone, including Bush and McCain, thought it would. The key difference with Obama, of course, is that both Bush and McCain believed the surge would succeed, whereas Obama believed it would not only fail, but make things worse.

As for Obama's statement that it's "not a hard thing to acknowledge" that violence has gone down more than anyone anticipated: Why, then, is it so hard for Obama to acknowledge that his opposition to the surge was wrong? Why does he insist, as recently as a week ago, that his opposition to the surge was right and wise? Obama's position was obviously, and at this stage we can say indisputably, mistaken. Yet Obama cannot bring himself to admit what he must, on some level, know to be true.

There are at least three conclusions to draw from Obama's appearance on Meet the Press.

1) The first is that when it comes to his stand on Iraq, Obama is like a man trapped in quicksand. The more he fights to justify his past stances, the quicker and deeper he sinks. Obama's explanations have moved from being misleading to unserious to embarrassing.

2) The second, and related, conclusion we can reach is that the more Obama talks about the surge, the more his claim that he has the "judgment to lead" is subverted. He has taken an understandable and forgivable mistake in judgment (opposition to the surge) and allowed it to call into question his political character and, by denying the positive effects of the surge for so long, his attachment to reality.

In addition, Obama’s comments about the Iraq war being a “distraction,” when combined with his votes against funding American troops on the battlefield and his 2007 proposal to withdraw all combat troops from Iraq by early 2008, call into question whether Obama was ever serious about winning the war or was bothered in the least by losing it.

3) The third conclusion is that Obama has completely obliterated the core early promise of his candidacy: that he would turn the page on American politics and offer us something new and better; that he would speak honestly and candidly, in a way free of ideology and in a manner than demonstrated an open mind, and eschew "spin."

Obama has not only turned out to be a practitioner of the "old politics;" he has, as a young, first-term senator, come to embody it. He has fallen into seemingly every trap he said he would avoid. All the hype, all the promise, all the high-minded words have turned out to be a mirage. And for those of us who were once impressed with Obama, even as we strongly disagreed with his political ideology, it has been both a fascinating and unsettling thing to witness. Watching a man become what he preaches against often is.
 
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Good to see Mr. Change/Hope/Messiah is so capable of admitting his mistakes.... looks like we are indeed going to get another Bush term... from "I can't be wrong" Obama.
 
Good to see Mr. Change/Hope/Messiah is so capable of admitting his mistakes.... looks like we are indeed going to get another Bush term... from "I can't be wrong" Obama.

Of course, you need to believe that, to alleviate the perpetual guilt you have over voting in one of the worst Presidents in American history.

Your "conclusions" about Obama's stated positions above were exceedingly entertaining; typically, they have little to do with reality, but they were good for a chuckle.
 
The lull from the surge is upon us. How long will it last.
btw the walls speperating the different sects are a fragile temporary fix at best.

We still have no revenue or power sharing resoloution from the Iraqi Govt.
Without that nothing will long last, esp once we cut off the money.
 
Jesus freaking christ,

Super2TimeBushVoter, you're such a partisan hack.

This website you are reading from is a den of immoral, Bush loving Neocon hacks. How come you, as an alleged "independent" voter, always seem to post stuff from far rightwing extremist websites?

Check out some of the articles from your website...it has everything a rightwing hack would love, from Obama is dishonest, to calling Nancy Pelosi a supporter of Iranian terrorism, to my favorite: The Iraq war was "inevitable", and thank God Bush took action when he did.

Hey, that whole "inevitable" stuff has been your gig.

Why Iraq Was Inevitable

Arthur Herman

....moreover, if Bush failed to act when he did, the consequences could have been truly disastrous. The next American President would surely have faced the need, in decidedly less favorable circumstances, to pick up the challenge Bush had neglected.

The Goodwill of Nancy Pelosi

Abe Greenwald

"For all appearances, Nancy Pelosi is establishing herself as a bona fide advocate of Iran’s terrorist regime."

Why Iraq Was Inevitable

Arthur Herman

....moreover, if Bush failed to act when he did, the consequences could have been truly disastrous. The next American President would surely have faced the need, in decidedly less favorable circumstances, to pick up the challenge Bush had neglected.


Obviously, as you wander around the board in a rage calling liberals partisan hacks, morons, and leghumpers, its clear that you are projecting your actions onto others.
 
Of course, you need to believe that, to alleviate the perpetual guilt you have over voting in one of the worst Presidents in American history.

Your "conclusions" about Obama's stated positions above were exceedingly entertaining; typically, they have little to do with reality, but they were good for a chuckle.

I know you need to believe that they have little to do with reality. It is to hard to actually accept the fact that those are all quotes directly from the Messiah and directly contradict your belief that 'the One' could actually be wrong.

and no... I do not feel guilty about voting for Bush. While I do agree he has been a failure as President, the decision over Gore was one in which I thought he would be something different than what he was. The decision over Kerry was a bit harder as we knew what Bush was, but Kerry offered nothing to inspire anyone to believe that he would be any better.

But I know... you feel guilty that your beloved party nominated two men who lost to one of the worst Presidents in our nations history.
 
Jesus freaking christ,

Super2TimeBushVoter, you're such a partisan hack.

This website you are reading from is a den of immoral, Bush loving Neocon hacks. How come you, as an alleged "independent" voter, always seem to post stuff from far rightwing extremist websites?

Check out some of the articles from your website...it has everything a rightwing hack would love, from Obama is dishonest, to calling Nancy Pelosi a supporter of Iranian terrorism, to my favorite: The Iraq war was "inevitable", and thank God Bush took action when he did.

Hey, that whole "inevitable" stuff has been your gig.








Obviously, as you wander around the board in a rage calling liberals partisan hacks, morons, and leghumpers, its clear that you are projecting your actions onto others.


Oh, our little leg humper is spazzing again. Listen leg humper... I got the article off of realclearpolitics.com. Which also carries some of the left wing nut job sites articles that idiots like you like to quote.

Side note... I notice how you, like the good little leg humper you are, are quite eager to hop on the leg of Lorax etc... so that you can feel included. But I notice not one of you hacks decided to actually address the fucking quotes directly from your precious Obama.

Instead you attack the author of the article in the vain attempt to distract from the fact that 'the One' was wrong.
 
I know you need to believe that they have little to do with reality. It is to hard to actually accept the fact that those are all quotes directly from the Messiah and directly contradict your belief that 'the One' could actually be wrong.

and no... I do not feel guilty about voting for Bush. While I do agree he has been a failure as President, the decision over Gore was one in which I thought he would be something different than what he was. The decision over Kerry was a bit harder as we knew what Bush was, but Kerry offered nothing to inspire anyone to believe that he would be any better.

But I know... you feel guilty that your beloved party nominated two men who lost to one of the worst Presidents in our nations history.

Please, o' lobotomized one. I have started more threads criticizing Obama, the Democratic Party & many of its leaders than you have brain cells.

I am not immune to some of the expediency that Obama has shown, and much of it has been somewhat disillusioning. That said, to conclude that his core has been "obliterated," and his judgment "subverted," and that he's drowning in quicksand, is kind of a textbook lesson in rightie hyperbole & melodrama. If you would LISTEN to him - and I know that's very, very hard, Superfreak - you would know that his position has been more or less consistent from the get go, and that is that a surge in troops will not achieve the goals that we are looking for in Iraq, and never will.

You are looking on a completely different level from that; "the surge reduced violence." Obama is looking at the cost, and at the big picture, and - as he correctly points out - we'll never really know what the results would have been if his vision had been pursued a year ago or 6 months ago. That's why the whole rightie euphoria over the surge seems so absurd; McCain seems to have basically decided "I was for the surge, and the surge worked" is a basis for an entire campaign. It's kind of pathetic.

That's beside the point; I think you know that the "conclusions" you painted here go a bit to far (at best), but I don't expect you to back off of them.
 
Please, o' lobotomized one. I have started more threads criticizing Obama, the Democratic Party & many of its leaders than you have brain cells.

- "you would know that his position has been more or less consistent from the get go, and that is that a surge in troops will not achieve the goals that we are looking for in Iraq, and never will. "

No shit. It is the very thing above that I am suggesting. That he still hangs on to the idea that the surge would never work. Despite the fact that it has indeed worked. It is the very act of clinging to this belief that somehow he was right that is pathetic.


"You are looking on a completely different level from that; "the surge reduced violence." Obama is looking at the cost, and at the big picture, and - as he correctly points out - we'll never really know what the results would have been if his vision had been pursued a year ago or 6 months ago. That's why the whole rightie euphoria over the surge seems so absurd; McCain seems to have basically decided "I was for the surge, and the surge worked" is a basis for an entire campaign. It's kind of pathetic."

You really are quite humorous. Do you really believe that had we pulled out our troops at a time when the violence was peaking that somehow things would have gotten to the same point as we are at now in terms of reduction in violence and the various sects actually working together. Sunnis back in parliament. Iraqi security forces at the competence level they currently are?

Obviously we will never know what MIGHT have been. But I think it extremely naive of you to think that a troop pullout at the time would have caused anything but a collapse into complete chaos.

When a fundamental change in strategy occurs and one person promotes it and the other dooms it to failure... then the strategy works.... yes, I would make that an issue in the campaign. It shows poor judgement in that decision. It shows even poorer judgement to proclaim the surge cannot work in hindsight after knowing that it indeed CAN work.

that said, Obama was correct in his initial position on Iraq. Which also has to be taken into account. But again, I fall back to which decision was more recent? Because that is the more relevant to me... we were already in.... that decision had been made. Two strategies were presented. the one chosen worked.... no matter how much you and the faithful refuse to admit it.


"That's beside the point; I think you know that the "conclusions" you painted here go a bit to far (at best), but I don't expect you to back off of them."

While I do agree the writer of the article was over the top with his hyperbole, the general message he was exaggerating was correct (IMO)

As for the first paragraph....


you are such a fucking hypocrit. Yes, you have criticized Obama. As I have criticized Bush. Yet does that stop you from your non-stop bullshit acting like I am an apologist etc...??? No. So either shut the fuck up or deal with the same level of crap coming back at you.
 
"- "you would know that his position has been more or less consistent from the get go, and that is that a surge in troops will not achieve the goals that we are looking for in Iraq, and never will. "

No shit. It is the very thing above that I am suggesting. That he still hangs on to the idea that the surge would never work. Despite the fact that it has indeed worked. It is the very act of clinging to this belief that somehow he was right that is pathetic."


I didn't really make it past this. My first thought is...can he be this obtuse? But, of course, you can be.

Try to use what little brain you have: has the surge worked in the context of the success that Obama is talking about? Has the surge achieved our goals in Iraq?

Think, SF - think.
 
"- "you would know that his position has been more or less consistent from the get go, and that is that a surge in troops will not achieve the goals that we are looking for in Iraq, and never will. "

No shit. It is the very thing above that I am suggesting. That he still hangs on to the idea that the surge would never work. Despite the fact that it has indeed worked. It is the very act of clinging to this belief that somehow he was right that is pathetic."


I didn't really make it past this. My first thought is...can he be this obtuse? But, of course, you can be.

Try to use what little brain you have: has the surge worked in the context of the success that Obama is talking about? Has the surge achieved our goals in Iraq?

Think, SF - think.

Tell you what Lorax, take a look around at what people outside of Obamas camp are saying. Yes, you moron, I know you are indeed to "obtuse" to let this sink in.... but yes, the surge is doing what it was intended to do. Is it complete? No. it is not. But only a foolish kool-aid drinker would pretend as though it wasn't getting us to where we want to be.

But apparently you have stopped thinking for yourself anymore. It is a shame. Prior to your blind devotion, you used to be able to hold an intelligent conversation despite differences of opinion. Now you are simply falling to the level of the resident idiot... do try not to become the leg humper that he is.
 
I see someone's got their marching orders.

In any event, if the surge has worked so well why can't we start to leave? Why can't we go back to pre-surge troop levels?

I understand that you want the debate to be about who was right about the surge, but, even if your guy was right about the surge, where does that leave us going forward? Indefinitely committed to a permanent occupation in a country where neither the population nor the government want us there? That should work out well . . .
 
I see someone's got their marching orders.

In any event, if the surge has worked so well why can't we start to leave? Why can't we go back to pre-surge troop levels?

I understand that you want the debate to be about who was right about the surge, but, even if your guy was right about the surge, where does that leave us going forward? Indefinitely committed to a permanent occupation in a country where neither the population nor the government want us there? That should work out well . . .

I think going forward, the troops can begin withdrawal and I believe that is likely given the shift in rhetoric from even Bush and McCain. Obviously time will tell what actually occurs, but somehow I get the feeling that you are going to see troop levels conveniently hit below pre-surge levels by November.

The Iraqis want it. Their security forces now have the lead in 10 of the 18 provinces. My guess, and to be very clear.... this is just a guess.... is that they take control of another 4 or so provinces over the next several months which provides for the exit.

I know your side of the aisle likes to translate a lack of timetable into being in Iraq forever. But that has never been the plan (other than embassy staff and maybe a training force if the Iraqis want them). Just a gross exaggeration by the left. But if things continue to progress, Obama's arbitrary timetable could work. I still wouldn't be so foolish as to set an arbitrary timetable as it can only hurt the efforts. If the Iraqis say go, we go. Otherwise we withdraw as the commanders on the ground see fit.
 
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