Resurrecting the moderate Republican

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Resurrecting the moderate Republican

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-haefele14-2008dec14,0,6972231.story


Resurrecting the moderate Republican



Sure, Dewey lost. But another middle-of-the roader, Eisenhower, won. It could happen again.


By Marc B. Haefele

Sixty years ago last month, I watched my parents pull the curtains of their voting booths in a Michigan town hall basement to vote for the man who lost the 1948 presidential election. He was Thomas E. Dewey, a Republican widely expected, even by the Democrats, to vanquish wounded incumbent Harry S. Truman.

Nearly all we remember about Dewey today is that he lost, and that an exuberant Truman was photographed brandishing a newspaper bearing the premature headline "Dewey Defeats Truman." Dewey lost because he was so sure he would win that he ran a lackluster campaign, and because he lacked Truman's hometown magnetism.

He didn't lose, however, because he was too conservative. Dewey was nearly as liberal as his Democratic opponent, and that wasn't a problem for voters. Moderation was the national consensus then, which is why Dewey today seems more liberal than any of the 10 Republican hopefuls for president did in 2008.

I'm no longer the loyal young Republican I was at age 6, and I'm now glad Truman won. But even from a 21st century progressive's point of view, Dewey wouldn't have been a bad president. As governor of New York, he'd been a pioneer in fighting racial discrimination in employment. He believed in labor unions and in the separation of church and state. As a prosecutor in New York City, he took on organized crime, putting Murder Inc. on death row. He was tough -- a Humphrey Bogart liberal, you might say.

The Truman-Dewey race was about politics and issues and approaches, but not about ideologies. It's been a long time since we've had a moderate-on-moderate race like that.

In 1960, John F. Kennedy and Richard M. Nixon were both moderates in their ways. But after Nixon lost to Kennedy in that close election, Republicans began to shift their thinking. A faction of the party, led by Barry Goldwater, moved far to the right and began tugging at the rest of the party to join in the shift. One sign of the movement's success is that, by today's standards, Goldwater seems almost moderate when compared with the '08 GOP presidential contenders

The Economist recently said of the current GOP: "The party lost the battle for brains." The question for the Republicans going forward should be: How can the party regain them? It'll be a difficult task as long as the loudest Republicans keep pushing it further right. But all the party needs to do is reverse this direction; to acknowledge the intelligence and integrity of its moderate antecedents.

There was Abraham Lincoln, of course. And Teddy Roosevelt, our first eco-president, who offended the South by inviting a black man to a White House dinner. His successor, William H. Taft, has been termed a great conservative president, but he broke up more monopolies than TR ever did and once, as a staunch Unitarian, even denied the divinity of Jesus. What candidate, from either party, would dare do that today?

The reviled Herbert Hoover, late in his only term, turned against his Depression-era "purge the rot" Wall Street advisors and pioneered agencies such as the Reconstruction Finance Corp. His conversion came too late to save his reputation, let alone win him another term. But his creations were good enough to be maintained and built on by the New Deal.

Even Ronald Reagan, the most successful conservative president, was a pragmatist. As California governor, he raised taxes. As president, he negotiated arms agreements with what he termed the "evil empire." And he was always willing to work with the folks on the other side of the legislative aisle.

That hasn't been the case lately. During the Bill Clinton and early George W. Bush years, the increasingly ideological GOP waged a Talibanish war against Democratic representatives, making legislative decisions in closed party caucuses as though it was sure it would never again be in a minority. Huge amounts of political energy and opportunities were wasted on Whitewater and other propagandistic campaigns.

After decades of increasingly extreme ideologies, next time around, why don't the Republicans just let their current moderates -- John McCain, Rudy Giuliani, Mitt Romney -- run as honest men? They might redefine their party around a genuine national consensus.

Some GOP stalwart might even dare to veer to the left of where Dewey stood 60 years ago. Of course, it might be said that Dewey lost. On the other hand, a similarly moderate Republican candidate came along four years later and won. Then he won again. That was Dwight D. Eisenhower.

Come to think of it, a self-proclaimed GOP moderate won in 2000. But he turned out to be George W. Bush.

Marc B. Haefele is a commentator for KPCC-FM (89.3) and writes for Citybeat and Nomada magazine of Buenos Aires.
 
You just are too much of a virgin in your experience with really living with Liberalism.
The reason Conservatives in the Repub party advanced isn't because they abandoned Liberalism, but because Liberal policies that came to a climax in the 60's with the Great Society ended up transforming a prosperous, self-reliant and relatively safe country into deep poverty, crushing debt, high crime and destructive government social welfare dependence that people DEMANDED a Conservative alternative and when it came along with Reagan, it sold very easily.
 
The article writer is an idiot. Reagan did raise taxes a little but cut them far far more (70% to 28%)than Bush's tiny tax cut from 39 to 36%.
He also vetoed 23 spending bills in his first 3 years alone, how many did Bush veto, ZERO.

Bush also approved Sarbanes-Oxley, the most massive new regulation we've ever seen with over 1.3$ trillion lost productivity and counting, while Reagan deregulated.
Bush signed the Pill Bill, the largest expance in gov social welfare since the 60's.

He was more Liberal than most presidents.
 
I love it. Create the illusion that Truman, Reagan, and Bush, were really liberals and not conservative, in order to bolster an argument for refutation of conservatism, and a return to "moderate" views. It takes a special kind of dementia to come up with this stuff!

Waterhead, let me put your mind at ease, save your breath! The pendulum has swung as far left as it will go with Obama and Company, and it's now just a matter of time before it swings back the other way. All of your delusional illusionist journalism will not stop the pendulum. Mainly because people just aren't stupid enough to buy it, but more than that, most of America is right-center in their views, and they don't base them on what you tell them they should.

So save us the attempts at trying the ol' switcharoo on history, and get ready for a good healthy dose of true conservatism in your future, because it's a coming!
 
The article writer is an idiot. Reagan did raise taxes a little but cut them far far more (70% to 28%)than Bush's tiny tax cut from 39 to 36%.
He also vetoed 23 spending bills in his first 3 years alone, how many did Bush veto, ZERO.

The article writer said he raised taxes as governor.

And after you cut taxes for the rich by two thirds (placing the burden on the middle and lower classes, whos taxes you didn't even touch), there's just not a lot more to cut. Bush is going to be the last conservative president.
 
Truman was liberal.

Dixie, for some odd reason, has it in his head the Truman was a conservative. When, in fact, Truman's platform was probably the most left wing presidential platform of all time. It's perplexing, but you have to forgive him, he's from the south.
 
Bush also approved Sarbanes-Oxley, the most massive new regulation we've ever seen with over 1.3$ trillion lost productivity and counting, while Reagan deregulated.
Bush signed the Pill Bill, the largest expance in gov social welfare since the 60's.

1. Those estimates are likely bullshit invented by idiot conservative economists on the payroll of fraudsters. Sarbanes-Oxley saves us far more than it costs in the loss of fraud. And the only thing it "costs" is some fucking paperwork - man the fuck up, conservatives.

2. The Pill Bill may have been the largest non-inflation adjusted program, but when you say that some recent program is "the largest in history" using non-inflation, non wealth adjusted figures, you are mostly just saying that inflation happens and wealth grows. It's intellectually dishonest to say that, yet you use that all the time.

For instance, you're probably going to tell me next that Clintons tax raise was "the largest in history", using non inflation adjusted figures. Yep, the tax raise from 28% to 40% for the top 1% certainly dwarfs the tax raises from 20% to 90% during the thirties.
 
The article writer said he raised taxes as governor.

And after you cut taxes for the rich by two thirds (placing the burden on the middle and lower classes, whos taxes you didn't even touch), there's just not a lot more to cut.
You are dumb, the only way their burden could increase is if their taxes increase which they did not.

Bush is going to be the last conservative president.
You are insane, Bush grew government massively, Conservative in name only.
 
Dixie, for some odd reason, has it in his head the Truman was a conservative. When, in fact, Truman's platform was probably the most left wing presidential platform of all time. It's perplexing, but you have to forgive him, he's from the south.

Neocons wither under the delusion that not only are they "conservative," but that "tough guy" presidents like Truman and JFK were conservatives. I've even seen someone on here argue that FDR was a conservative, and Rush Limbaugh argued that presidents Harding (mhrip) and Coolidge (mhrip) were liberals. Of course, those two were also peaceniks!

In the 19th Century, the "tough guy" analogy makes Jackson a conservative and Clay and Q. Adams liberals for opposing him. Funny that many try to paint Jefferson as a conservative, but are unaware that he was a wimp who couldn't stand the sight of blood and who barely avoided being tried for some serious charges by fleeing from Richmond (while governor) when the British invaded - which would have ended his career disgracefully before it had really begun. They just point to his "tough stand" against the Tripoli/Barbary Pirates compared with Adams' willingness to continue paying a bribe for American safe passage (by continue, this must mean that Washington was a wimp for paying it to begin with, and that Hamilton, a heroic soldier and later famous dueler, as his most trusted advisor, was also a wimp by extension).
 
1. Those estimates are likely bullshit invented by idiot conservative economists on the payroll of fraudsters. Sarbanes-Oxley saves us far more than it costs in the loss of fraud. And the only thing it "costs" is some fucking paperwork - man the fuck up, conservatives.
QUOTE]

Watermark your trolling always makes me laugh because you are good at it and I can picture you laughing as you type half of what you write on here.

This comment above made me laugh because it could only be made by a kid who has actually never been in a workplace and seen the actual effect of the regulations.
 
. Those estimates are likely bullshit invented by idiot conservative economists on the payroll of fraudsters. Sarbanes-Oxley saves us far more than it costs in the loss of fraud. And the only thing it "costs" is some fucking paperwork - man the fuck up, conservatives.
QUOTE]

Watermark your trolling always makes me laugh because you are good at it and I can picture you laughing as you type half of what you write on here.

This comment above made me laugh because it could only be made by a kid who has actually never been in a workplace and seen the actual effect of the regulations.


WM pizzowned.

Even I've had to deal with Sarbanes-Oxley in the workplace.
 
WM pizzowned.

Even I've had to deal with Sarbanes-Oxley in the workplace.

We've had to spend money on Auditors specifically for Sarbanes-Oxley, and they really are dumber than rocks. I don't know how many times I've had to reset thier passwords, only to find out later they all locked themselves out and are using just one account. You would think that they would understand network security and you aren't to give out your personal username and password, even to fellow employees, but no, that's beyond them. SOX is just job creation for those that can't get a real job.
 
Truman was liberal.

Not really. That is the illusion liberals would like us to believe now, and he certainly was a fiscal liberal, he was a Democrat. One could argue that Eisenhower's massive spending on an interstate highway system was liberal, or Bush's eight years of outspending the previous two democrat presidents combined on social programs, that seems pretty damn liberal, doesn't it?

It seems this illusionist tactic depends on drawing a parallel between massive government spending, and liberalism, and if that is the case, virtually every president we've ever had, has been liberal! Also, taxation seems to be an illusionist indicator of liberalism, so Alexander Hamilton was liberal... he believed in and supported gay marriage and abortion, social entitlements and welfare! Do you see how this works? It's what illusionist's do! They show you one thing, but make you see something else.
 
First of all, you're on crack about Hamilton. He spent money where it would do good and return an investment, such as building industry. His way of saving the government from financial ruin had nothing to do with raising taxes - he simply puzzled together the bizarre mess of receipts and papers that he inherited as Treasury Sec. and did some accounting, thereby giving legitimacy to US Credit. His Assumption policies saved the states a ton of money! Apparently Southerners are taught to hate Hamilton: gay marriage, abortion, welfare, and entitlement programs were not issues in his day, nor were there ideologues who championed any of them. The tax he's famous for, the Whiskey Tax was a blunt, albeit sinister, move to lend credence to the federal army in wake of the Shay's Rebellion which was the last straw leading up to the Constitutional Convention.

Secondly, comparing Bush and Truman to Ike is retarded. Ike's highway system was a project, much like the internal roads project that Congress passed during the Madison presidency. Bush consistently spent money on programs, and Truman had an entire social spending program known as the Fair Deal. Unlike those two, Ike had a track record of cutting spending. The term "more bang for the buck" comes from his New Look, which was designed to increase military capability/payload while reducing the overall defense budget.
 
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First of all, you're on crack about Hamilton. He spent money where it would do good and return an investment, such as building industry. His way of saving the government from financial ruin had nothing to do with raising taxes - he simply puzzled together the bizarre mess of receipts and papers that he inherited as Treasury Sec. and did some accounting, thereby giving legitimacy to US Credit. His Assumption policies saved the states a ton of money! Apparently Southerners are taught to hate Hamilton: gay marriage, abortion, welfare, and entitlement programs were not issues in his day, nor were there ideologues who championed any of them. The tax he's famous for, the Whiskey Tax was a blunt, albeit sinister, move to lend credence to the federal army in wake of the Shay's Rebellion which was the last straw leading up to the Constitutional Convention.

Secondly, comparing Bush and Truman to Ike is retarded. Ike's highway system was a project, much like the internal roads project that Congress passed during the Madison presidency. Bush consistently spent money on programs, and Truman had an entire social spending program known as the Fair Deal. Unlike those two, Ike had a track record of cutting spending. The term "more bang for the buck" comes from his New Look, which was designed to increase military capability/payload while reducing the overall defense budget.

I think you missed the sarcastic absurdity of my comment. Of course Hamilton wasn't a "liberal" but using Waterhead's criteria, he could very well be made into one. The same is true with Ike, Bush, or Truman, if you want to take a myopic look at a 'specific' about their policies, any one of them could arguably be called "liberal" using the criteria Waterhead presented.

I have said all along, Bush is more of a fiscal liberal than Clinton! As a matter of fact, he is more of a fiscal liberal than Clinton and Carter combined! His father was a fiscal liberal as well, the last true fiscal conservative Republicans had in office was Reagan. On the social front, it's a different story, but so is the case with Truman and Hamilton, they were not social liberals.
 
Forget Watermark's incessant trolling. Southerners have been claiming for years that old school Dems like Truman and JFK were conservatives on the grounds of their cold warrior credentials to justify their unfortunate intrusion into Republican Party politics.

People will list all sorts of meaningless details to paint a political figure as left or right. Hence, the reason why Hamilton and Jefferson are listed alternately as inspirations for either side, but the fact remains that in their day, Hamilton was a conservative and Jefferson a liberal.

Again, you cannot compare the pragmatism of Hamilton and Ike's pet projects with programmatic administrations such as Bush II, Truman, Wilson, FDR, etc. If someone disagrees with you on that and tries to make a federal case out of it, and you actually agree with me on this point, then fine, they're moronic.
 
Forget Watermark's incessant trolling. Southerners have been claiming for years that old school Dems like Truman and JFK were conservatives on the grounds of their cold warrior credentials to justify their unfortunate intrusion into Republican Party politics.

People will list all sorts of meaningless details to paint a political figure as left or right. Hence, the reason why Hamilton and Jefferson are listed alternately as inspirations for either side, but the fact remains that in their day, Hamilton was a conservative and Jefferson a liberal.

Again, you cannot compare the pragmatism of Hamilton and Ike's pet projects with programmatic administrations such as Bush II, Truman, Wilson, FDR, etc. If someone disagrees with you on that and tries to make a federal case out of it, and you actually agree with me on this point, then fine, they're moronic.

I think you should seek counseling for your hatred of Southerners, it's really getting scary to me. It's not healthy to hate fellow Americans that much. Truman and JFK were very conservative in comparison to today's socialist liberal, so were Hamilton and Jefferson, for that matter. We can get into this big philosophical debate over the term "liberal" and what it means today, compared to what it meant 200 years ago, but I think most people knowledgeable of history understand that. My point about Waterhead's argument remains, if you want to establish the criteria of "liberal" based on spending and taxes, Ike and Hamilton could be made into liberals. I am not making that argument, it's absurd, but it's the criteria Waterhead set in the opening post... or shall I say, the pinhead responsible for the bias liberal trash Waterhead passed off as objective journalism, Waterhead hasn't had an original thought in years.
 
Jefferson was a liberal but he wasn't left wing.

Hamilton was a conservative, but the liberal movement pretty much passed him up. He was still advocating mercantilism and monarchy.
 
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