Ron Paul on McCain
- Thread starter Timshel
- Start date
Superfreak says it would potentially be just like us Staying in Germany,and Japan for 60 years.
And superfreak is never wrong.
Germany is a western culture, not much different than ours, and christian. And (at the risk of being blasted for this) Asian's tend to be submissive and are not very religious.
And, as I have pointed out before, it becomes important to establish a functioning state in Iraq, not to defend Iraq but so that it may be dominated by outside forces. The state puts people into jeopardy of being conquered by foreign influence.
I guess, it is possible that it might work out, eventually, if you call the US paying to establish the state there working out. But it will be more difficult than Japan or Germany.
And, as I have pointed out before, it becomes important to establish a functioning state in Iraq, not to defend Iraq but so that it may be dominated by outside forces. The state puts people into jeopardy of being conquered by foreign influence.
I guess, it is possible that it might work out, eventually, if you call the US paying to establish the state there working out. But it will be more difficult than Japan or Germany.
I don't entirely agree with that.
The main difference is that Germany and Japan picked a fight with us, and they lost. We inflicted so much pain and destruction on them, they practically pleaded for an unconditional surrender. And agreed to an occupation.
Iraq never picked a fight with us. Iraq never "surrendered". Iraq's sovereign leaders never acquiesced to an occupation. Iraq's paramilitary fighters and elite army units simply shed their uniforms, and blended into the civilian population to fight on another day.
The main difference is that Germany and Japan picked a fight with us, and they lost. We inflicted so much pain and destruction on them, they practically pleaded for an unconditional surrender. And agreed to an occupation.
Iraq never picked a fight with us. Iraq never "surrendered". Iraq's sovereign leaders never acquiesced to an occupation. Iraq's paramilitary fighters and elite army units simply shed their uniforms, and blended into the civilian population to fight on another day.
Those are valid points. We did pick the fight with Japan, but they joined it more than Iraq.
Yeah, I know. FDR threatened to stop selling our oil to japan, because they were invading and brutalizing our allies, the chinese. And FDR-haters call that an american act of aggression against japan. I've heard it before.
But, that's another thread.the point is, you can't invade a nation that didn't provoke you, and expect to control and subjugate them. They're going to fight back. Forever if neccessary.
McCain knows this. He went to the Naval Academy, and has studied more military history than me.
Socrtease
Verified User
And Roosevelt was RIGHT in this. The isolationists in the US were willing to stand by until the entire free world but for the US had been conquered and divided by the Axis powers. We should have gone into with the brits in 40 at least. America firsters were almost the downfall of the US if not for Pearl Harbor.
Beefy
Worst gambler ever
This is preposterous! WWII did not require US involvement to be won by the allied forces. And for all the idiots who are about to bring up Pearl Harbor as your rebuttal, that's not what I'm talking about.
The United States most certainly exercised a wholesale interventionist foreign policy that ultimately had the potential to cripple the Japanese war machine. And it really wasn't that surprising that the Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbor. We feigned surprise, pretended that we were shocked that the Japanese would attack us, and then we had our war.
Isolationists? That's become a lame code word for imperialists to use against non interventionists. Since noninterventionism is not preemptive warfare and it is not colonialism, then it also must be a complete isolation from the rest of the world.
People who opposed our involvement in WWII, or the foreign policy that led up to it are not "isolationists".
Superfreak says it would potentially be just like us Staying in Germany,and Japan for 60 years.
And superfreak is never wrong.
Really Cypress? Superfreak is never wrong? Do tell!~
Bull$hit.
The Chinese have been under oppressive and stable regimes for thousands of years. Japan is little different.
It's been my experience that they do not believe in their mythology. I don't think anybody fervantly believes in shintoism. Maybe they used to, I don't know. Confucianism and daoism are more philosophy than religion. Many of them do believe in mystical nonsense when it comes to medicine.
I do think that cypress has a valid point about the overwhelming force which was a big part of them submitting.
It's been my experience that they do not believe in their mythology. I don't think anybody fervantly believes in shintoism. Maybe they used to, I don't know. Confucianism and daoism are more philosophy than religion. Many of them do believe in mystical nonsense when it comes to medicine.
I do think that cypress has a valid point about the overwhelming force which was a big part of them submitting.
Socrtease
Verified User
This is pure CRAP. Without US involvement Britain alone would have failed at the invasion of fortress Europe, which is what it was by the time we entered the war. Imagine D-day with no US Navy? Without 73,000 additional troops from the US? It would have never happened. Had Japan not bombed the US, indeed had we not provoked an attack from them Britain was alone in Europe fighing against a war machine that it ultimately took the rest of the fucking militarized world to defeat. The "non-interventionalists" in WW II were "head in the sand, it will never get to us" isolationist. Without the industrial might of the US Hitler would have won Europe and at BEST Britain would have sued for peace that would have allowed the British Nationalists to take over and create a cozy alliance with Hitler.
It was our forces coupled with the computers that won WWII. Hitler declined investing in computer research believing he'd have it won by 1943, he refused to fund any research with computers unless there was a return within the year. The Brits had been decoding all his messages without his knowledge using their rudimentary computer. With that knowledge and number of troops we prevailed.
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
The Nazi's were certainly much more mentally unstable than the allies... not one but two of their highest up people tried to surrender to the allies in ridiculous ways. Heiss tried to arrange peace by himself without any authorization from Germany (he was also given a much harsher sentence than other people of comparable guilt at the Nurembourg trials - oddly enough). Hitler may not have been delusional but he certainly had some kind of grand personality disorder, like most great leaders.