Scopes monkey trial & William Jennings Bryant

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Cypress

Well-known member
I assumed William Jennings Bryant was your garden variety bible thumper, but the backdrop adds some interesting texture and context.

It's easy to dismiss the anti-evolution position as sheer ignorance, but William Jennings Bryan's story reveals interesting roots for the fear that many people still hold about evolution.

- A liberal and free thinker on many other issues, Bryan took a stand against evolutionary theory after the First World War, when he became aware of the use of social Darwinism to justify militarism, imperialism, and the pseudoscience of eugenics. Eugenics advocated the elimination of undesirable characteristics from the human race through selective breeding.

- Bryan abhorred the idea, which was outlined in a book of the time called Headquarters Nights, a recounting of its author's evenings spent with German military and intellectual leaders. These leaders justified their militarism and imperialistic expansionism with classic social Darwinism-the national survival of the fittest, improvement of the superior Germanic race, and elimination of unfit races.

- Bryan became concerned for both his faith and his country. The enemy, in his mind, was not Germany but evolutionary theory, and Scope's crime was to pass this poison on to the next generation.

- In his promotion of Christian teachings over evolutionary theory, Bryan clearly stood in the way of what scientists would call progress. But it's worth noting that he also took a stand against the line of thinking that eventually led to the genocidal policies of Nazi Germany.

Source credit: Michael Shermer, Ph.D., Adjunct Professor, Claremont Graduate University
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"China and Eugenic Genetic Engineering of Humans"
https://nationalvanguard.org/2019/04/china-and-eugenic-genetic-engineering-of-humans/

"I CAN’T SEE why eugenic genetic engineering of humans is a bad thing for scientists to be doing, provided that they don’t do harm. There were people opposed to the automobile, too, a century ago, and they probably had more reason behind their arguments than the anti-eugenics screamers do. China’s already begun work in this area."
 
Jack said:
"China and Eugenic Genetic Engineering of Humans"
https://nationalvanguard.org/2019/04/china-and-eugenic-genetic-engineering-of-humans/

"I CAN’T SEE why eugenic genetic engineering of humans is a bad thing for scientists to be doing, provided that they don’t do harm. There were people opposed to the automobile, too, a century ago, and they probably had more reason behind their arguments than the anti-eugenics screamers do. China’s already begun work in this area."
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Genetic modifications to cure cancer and other diseases does not strike me as comparable to the social Darwinism promoted by imperialists, nationalists, and fascists 100 years ago.

Obviously though, there are undoubtedly ethical questions outside the realm of my current knowlege
 
Cypress said:
Genetic modifications to cure cancer and other diseases does not strike me as comparable to the social Darwinism promoted by imperialists, nationalists, and fascists 100 years ago.

Obviously though, there are undoubtedly ethical questions outside the realm of my current knowlege
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Would you be against a 'superior human'? More intelligent, healthier, better looking? (I can actually see the Chinese doing this)
 
Jack said:
Would you be against a 'superior human'? More intelligent, healthier, better looking? (I can actually see the Chinese doing this)
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The Nazi's tried that. There is real life experience for how that sort of thinking turns out. It is not something to be taken lightly.
 
Cypress said:
The Nazi's tried that. There is real life experience for how that sort of thinking turns out. It is not something to be taken lightly.
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It's inevitable in my opinion. Who doesn't think a more healthy, smarter, stronger, better looking human isn't a good idea.
 
Jack said:
It's inevitable in my opinion. Who doesn't think a more healthy, smarter, stronger, better looking human isn't a good idea.
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I am happy with the way I look and feel.
A fit body , good self-image, proper diet, exercise, self-improvement, and self-confidence is within reach of 90 percent of humans now, with proper commitment and without gene therapy.

I wish my hair had not gone prematurely white, but I do not stress about it.

No doubt the genetic science will ultimately allow us to edit genes to cure or prevent a plethora of diseases, physical disabilities.

On the flip side, using eugenics to breeding the Aryan super race is a rife with ethical complications
 
Cypress said:
I am happy with the way I look and feel.
A fit body , good self-image, proper diet, exercise, self-improvement, and self-confidence is within reach of 90 percent of humans now, with proper commitment and without gene therapy.

I wish my hair had not gone prematurely white, but I do not stress about it.

No doubt the genetic science will ultimately allow us to edit genes to cure or prevent a plethora of diseases, physical disabilities.

On the flip side, using eugenics to breeding the Aryan super race is a rife with ethical complications
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Let's say you had the opportunity and the ability to create a more intelligent Human. Or a more healthy Human. Would you make the attempt? Would a group of scientists? Would a Government?

"Eugenics
Eugenics is a set of beliefs and practices that aim to improve the genetic quality of a human population, historically by excluding people and groups judged to be inferior or promoting those judged to be superior. The concept predates the term; Plato suggested applying the principles of selective breeding to humans around 400 BC.Wikipedia"
 
Jack said:
Let's say you had the opportunity and the ability to create a more intelligent Human. Or a more healthy Human. Would you make the attempt? Would a group of scientists? Would a Government?

"Eugenics
Eugenics is a set of beliefs and practices that aim to improve the genetic quality of a human population, historically by excluding people and groups judged to be inferior or promoting those judged to be superior. The concept predates the term; Plato suggested applying the principles of selective breeding to humans around 400 BC.Wikipedia"
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"Intelligence" is one of those words people throw around a lot without really nailing down what exactly it is. There is the intelligence associated with logic and analytical skills, there is the intelligence which is expressed as creativity and imagination, there is the intelligence which comes with leadership talent and emotional maturity.

I actually do not think Einstein was the most intelligent physicist of the 20th century. What he had was an incredible amount of imagination and creativity.

Logic, imagination, creativity, emotional intelligence are acquired through a combination of environment, education, values, and a host of intangibles.

I am dubious of the proposition that an Albert Einstein can be created in a test tube by gene modification.

Plato's Republic was a thought experiment from 2,500 years ago, and we should not take ancient Greek philosophical musings as guidance for application of 21st century genetic science

On the other hand, there is no doubt that genetic science will devise ways to edit genes to cure or prevent disease and disability.
 
Cypress said:
"Intelligence" is one of those words people throw around a lot without really nailing down what exactly it is. There is the intelligence associated with logic and analytical skills, there is the intelligence which is expressed as creativity and imagination, there is the intelligence which comes with leadership and emotional maturity.

I actually do not think Einstein was the most intelligent physicist of the 20th century. What he had was an incredible amount of imagination and creativity.

Logic, imagination, creativity, emotional intelligence are acquired through a combination of environment, education, values, and a host of intangibles.

I am dubious of the proposition that an Albert Einstein can be created in a test tube by gene modification.

On the other hand, there is no doubt that genetic science will devise ways to edit genes to cure or prevent disease and disability.
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Agree. It will be a difficult task. I'm sure it will be a 'mixed algorithm' of genetic make-up.
It will probably 'start' with making Humans more healthy, or less prone to sickness. This will open up more doors.

Europeans and Americans will probably not lead on this. 'Eugenics' have a 'bad history', so will be repressed here. China I think will have no problem taking the lead here. The 'Superior Asian' will probably be a Goal, but I don't think that is going to be 'exclusive'. I think they will adopt anything that would lead to a 'Superior' Human.

"China has done human testing to create biologically enhanced super soldiers, says top U.S. official"
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...biologically-enhanced-super-soldiers-n1249914
 
"What is CRISPR and why is it controversial?"
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/07/health/what-is-crispr-explainer-scn-trnd/index.html

"Two women have won the Nobel prize in chemistry for the development of a revolutionary gene editing tool that's been described as "rewriting the code of life." "
"It hit the headlines in 2018 when a Chinese scientist used the technology to create the first gene-edited babies, shocking the world and sparking a highly charged ethical debate about its use."




Cypress said:
"Intelligence" is one of those words people throw around a lot without really nailing down what exactly it is. There is the intelligence associated with logic and analytical skills, there is the intelligence which is expressed as creativity and imagination, there is the intelligence which comes with leadership talent and emotional maturity.

I actually do not think Einstein was the most intelligent physicist of the 20th century. What he had was an incredible amount of imagination and creativity.

Logic, imagination, creativity, emotional intelligence are acquired through a combination of environment, education, values, and a host of intangibles.

I am dubious of the proposition that an Albert Einstein can be created in a test tube by gene modification.

Plato's Republic was a thought experiment from 2,500 years ago, and we should not take ancient Greek philosophical musings as guidance for application of 21st century genetic science

On the other hand, there is no doubt that genetic science will devise ways to edit genes to cure or prevent disease and disability.
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BidenPresident said:
So, nothing, as usual. You want everyone to know you are religious.
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A weird conclusion to leap to. You pretty much suck at attempted mind reading. I am on the side of the ACLU in the scopes trial -- and in this thread I sought out and consistently spoke to issues concerning eugenics.

Nothing stops you from disregarding my threads if you do not like them.
 
Jack said:
Agree. It will be a difficult task. I'm sure it will be a 'mixed algorithm' of genetic make-up.
It will probably 'start' with making Humans more healthy, or less prone to sickness. This will open up more doors.

Europeans and Americans will probably not lead on this. 'Eugenics' have a 'bad history', so will be repressed here. China I think will have no problem taking the lead here. The 'Superior Asian' will probably be a Goal, but I don't think that is going to be 'exclusive'. I think they will adopt anything that would lead to a 'Superior' Human.

"China has done human testing to create biologically enhanced super soldiers, says top U.S. official"
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...biologically-enhanced-super-soldiers-n1249914
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^^ Something to consider: China does not have the West's sordid history with the toxic mix of social darwinsim, fascism, colonial imperialism.

On the flipside, I am happy with my mind and the way I look. But if the Chinese stumble across a gene that gives people superior grace and coordination, give me a holler. Unfortunately, and much to my chagrin, I dance like a white man!
 
Cypress said:
^^ Something to consider: China does not have the West's sordid history with the toxic mix of social darwinsim, fascism, colonial imperialism.

On the flipside, I am happy with my mind and the way I look. But if the Chinese stumble across a gene that gives people superior grace and coordination, give me a holler. Unfortunately, and much to my chagrin, I dance like a white man!
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:) They seem more pragmatic.
We already practice this ... who are the 'sperm donors'? Medical students, or the unemployed from the Housing Projects?

This won't affect us. It's Generations in the Future. (it should be an interesting experiment)
 
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