Socialism Works

DamnYankee

Loyal to the end
At least it can in limited amounts. The Founders knew this so made a list of services that the federal government could provide better than private industry, and enumerated these in Article I Section 8 of the Constitution. All other services were to be left up to the States, or the People (Amendment X). Ben Franklin thought that socialism was necessary for fire protection, not on the Federal or State level, but at the local level, and was instrumental in founding of the Philadelphia Fire Department.

We Conservatives aren't against socialism; we just want it limited to basic services that the private sector isn't very good at, like fighting wars, fires, and enforcing laws.

Local fire departments don't even rely on State or Federal governments for coordination. If a fire is too much for a local department to handle, a call goes out to the neighboring towns and they lend a hand. Private corporations provide standards, testing, equipment and training. The Feds have nothing to do with it and the system works.

Police departments are similar, except most States have their own force and assist local governments. The feds have police as well and provide another level of assistance. These additional agencies don't supersede the local departments; they merely assist them. As with fire fighting, private companies compete with each other to provide the best equipment at the lowest prices, and sell it at a profit, benefiting themselves as well as the police departments.

Another example are schools. Schools started out totally private, local governments got involved and today all States have it in the constitutions to provide for some level of public education. The system worked well, but some time in the mid-20th century the Federal government got involved, and now public schools are failing. Conservatives want to fix the system by having public schools compete more fairly with private schools, a proven solution that Liberals reject.

Same with heath care. Many local governments have provided hospital services for decades, and these compete directly with private hospitals. Again, private industry provides training, equipment, and ancillary services. But sometime in the last few decades States and the Feds have become involved, regulating and funding. Now the system is "in a crisis" and the Feds want to take it all over.

Not even a the most Liberal among us would advocate nationalizing local police and fire departments. So why schools and health care? Are they retarded?
 
Thats some of the most convoluted logic, by a so called 'conservative' I've run across in a long time....
Firefighters and police officers WORK for the community/city/town/county, whatever, for money....they ARE THE EMPLOYEES of the community/city/town/county, whatever...just like majors, councilmen, zoning inspectors, etc.....

There is NO socialism involved at all....Their being employees is no different they YOU being an employee for whatever entity that pays you for a service you provide....

and if its a volunteer fire company...those that "volunteer" do so as a service by their own volition....making their own rules and by-laws as a private club would do....concerning dues, donations, and whatever else is required by the "members"
 
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They are employees of the government, and thus are a socialist organizations. Fighting crime and fires could be done by privateers, so they are not somehow inherent in government. Same with building inspectors: I've routinely been hired to provide inspection services, and my seal overrides a County inspector.
 
They are employees of the government, and thus are a socialist organizations. Fighting crime and fires could be done by privateers, so they are not somehow inherent in government. Same with building inspectors: I've routinely been hired to provide inspection services, and my seal overrides a County inspector.

I don't enjoy getting it on with a fellow Conservative, but you're talking stupid..plain and simple. In this country, WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT

We elect(hire) people to work for us doing the necessary jobs required to run the community....whether thats the town of Buttfuck, Ark., Pittsburgh, PA, or the 50 states that comprise the United States....

and I already realize that we've lose control of our employees to a degree and thats exactly what the "tea party" folks are complaining about....thus, their chant to "take back the country".....but thats another issue altogether.

Socialism has nothing to do with our military, our FBI, our CIA, or any other other entity thats is a part of local, state, or federal government.

Actually, your entire post is somewhat convoluted and confusing in what the hell you're trying to explain....private contractors and government contractorrs ? Are you trying to say one is 'socialist' and one is not ?
thats quite rediculous....
 
I don't enjoy getting it on with a fellow Conservative, but you're talking stupid..plain and simple. In this country, WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT

We elect(hire) people to work for us doing the necessary jobs required to run the community....whether thats the town of Buttfuck, Ark., Pittsburgh, PA, or the 50 states that comprise the United States....

and I already realize that we've lose control of our employees to a degree and thats exactly what the "tea party" folks are complaining about....thus, their chant to "take back the country".....but thats another issue altogether.

Socialism has nothing to do with our military, our FBI, our CIA, or any other other entity thats is a part of local, state, or federal government.

Actually, your entire post is somewhat convoluted and confusing in what the hell you're trying to explain....private contractors and government contractorrs ? Are you trying to say one is 'socialist' and one is not ?
thats quite rediculous....

Socialism is when the government owns the means of production. It doesn't matter if its fighting crimes, wars or fires. The Founder's understood this and found a limited amount- limited government- to be a necessary evil. More of it doesn't equal better. Why is that confusing to you?
 
At least it can in limited amounts. The Founders knew this so made a list of services that the federal government could provide better than private industry, and enumerated these in Article I Section 8 of the Constitution. All other services were to be left up to the States, or the People (Amendment X). Ben Franklin thought that socialism was necessary for fire protection, not on the Federal or State level, but at the local level, and was instrumental in founding of the Philadelphia Fire Department.

We Conservatives aren't against socialism; we just want it limited to basic services that the private sector isn't very good at, like fighting wars, fires, and enforcing laws.

Local fire departments don't even rely on State or Federal governments for coordination. If a fire is too much for a local department to handle, a call goes out to the neighboring towns and they lend a hand. Private corporations provide standards, testing, equipment and training. The Feds have nothing to do with it and the system works.

Police departments are similar, except most States have their own force and assist local governments. The feds have police as well and provide another level of assistance. These additional agencies don't supersede the local departments; they merely assist them. As with fire fighting, private companies compete with each other to provide the best equipment at the lowest prices, and sell it at a profit, benefiting themselves as well as the police departments.

Another example are schools. Schools started out totally private, local governments got involved and today all States have it in the constitutions to provide for some level of public education. The system worked well, but some time in the mid-20th century the Federal government got involved, and now public schools are failing. Conservatives want to fix the system by having public schools compete more fairly with private schools, a proven solution that Liberals reject.

Same with heath care. Many local governments have provided hospital services for decades, and these compete directly with private hospitals. Again, private industry provides training, equipment, and ancillary services. But sometime in the last few decades States and the Feds have become involved, regulating and funding. Now the system is "in a crisis" and the Feds want to take it all over.

Not even a the most Liberal among us would advocate nationalizing local police and fire departments. So why schools and health care? Are they retarded?

This has nothing to do with Socialism, which is defined as "public" ownership of major means of production. Fire, police, et al are simply one of a few services that are most efficiently offered by a monopoly (in this case, the government). That's not socialism.
 
It amazes me how modern liberals redefine socialism to mean anything the government does. Socialism is about control of the means of PRODUCTION and DISTRIBUTION of economic GOODS. Firefighting is no a means of production, nor a means of distribution. It makes nothing, distributes nothing. What firefight DOES do is protect assets. Period.

Law enforcement protects the citizenry from criminals period. No production nor distribution of goods there either. Ditto, but slightly different for the military.

As I said, it's amazing the depths of ignorance and/or levels of lies being thrown about these days to defend what the liberals know will not be otherwise accepted. (It's also proof of the claims in previous decades that the liberal movement was ultimately bent on socialism.) First they denied it, sometimes vehemently. Now, they still deny it (though not so vehemently) And at the same time, they are now pointing out what a good thing socialism really is - by lying about what socialism really is.
 
This has nothing to do with Socialism, which is defined as "public" ownership of major means of production. Fire, police, et al are simply one of a few services that are most efficiently offered by a monopoly (in this case, the government). That's not socialism.
You are correct that it does not meet the modern definition of socialism. That wasn't my point in the OP.
 
You are correct that it does not meet the modern definition of socialism. That wasn't my point in the OP.

Western and European versions of "socialism" are different that the classic definition....very true....
A distinction without a difference.....
Just as the definition of "free speech" in the US is not quite the same as its definition in China or Russia or Iran or even in many European countries.

:dunno: Thats just the way it is...
 
Western and European versions of "socialism" are different that the classic definition....very true....
A distinction without a difference.....
Just as the definition of "free speech" in the US is not quite the same as its definition in China or Russia or Iran or even in many European countries.

:dunno: Thats just the way it is...

I am curious as to the definition during the Founder's time. I believe they accepted the fact that government was a necessary evil and wrote the Constitution in such a way to keep it limited.
 
socialism
Definition
so·cial·ism[ sṓshə lìzəm ]NOUN
1. political system of communal ownership: a political theory or system in which the means of production and distribution are controlled by the people and operated according to equity and fairness rather than market principles
2. movement based on socialism: a political movement based on principles of socialism, typically advocating an end to private property and to the exploitation of workers
3. stage between capitalism and communism: in Marxist theory, the stage after the proletarian revolution when a society is changing from capitalism to communism, marked by pay distributed according to work done rather than need
Thesaurus

http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+socialism&FORM=DTPDIA&qpvt=socialism+definition








I am really sick of the right trying to redefine words to fit their failed ideas.
 
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I am curious as to the definition during the Founder's time. I believe they accepted the fact that government was a necessary evil and wrote the Constitution in such a way to keep it limited.

The term "communism" dates back to the 17th century. It was mostly used by radical religious groups, who believed that it was christ-like to live in communes and share property. The term communism was used by a lot of radical labor groups in the early 19th century, but by the middle of the century they settled around the term "socialism", because it didn't have the same religious baggage. After the Russian revolution the Bolsheviks, who had previously operated under the socialist label, resurrected the communist label to differentiate themselves from the moderating democratic socialists who didn't believe in instituting socialism through violent revolution.

None of the founders were that into communism because they weren't that religious, and socialism didn't exist.
 
It amazes me how modern liberals redefine socialism to mean anything the government does. Socialism is about control of the means of PRODUCTION and DISTRIBUTION of economic GOODS. Firefighting is no a means of production, nor a means of distribution. It makes nothing, distributes nothing. What firefight DOES do is protect assets. Period.

Law enforcement protects the citizenry from criminals period. No production nor distribution of goods there either. Ditto, but slightly different for the military.

Protecting assets is a good in its own right with a definite market value.
 
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