Tea Party not libertarian or Constitutionalist. It's BIG govt class warriors

Bfgrn

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Fla. Gov. Scott signs welfare drug testing bill

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Under the new measure, anyone seeking state welfare assistance would have to submit to and pay for a drug test, with the costs reimbursed if the applicant passes.

Championed by conservatives as some sort of fiscal responsibility measure, Scott sanctimoniously declared in signing the law: "While there are certainly legitimate needs for public assistance, it is unfair for Florida taxpayers to subsidize drug addiction."

The insinuation, of course, is that being poor is somehow synonymous with lawlessness and moral weakness, as if people in need of financial assistance are inherently susceptible to drug use and addiction. They're poor; therefore, they must be out boozing and drugging, the prejudicial thinking seems to go.

The fact that Florida itself researched this very issue in 1998 and found no such connection between financial need and drug use doesn't seem to matter to the conservative lawmakers scurrying to curry political favor among their cheering right-wing base.

State officials estimate the costs of the initial screenings at $10, but one state Department of Children & Families official said they could cost as much as $40 — a hefty sum for an impoverished family already struggling just to put food on the table.

Now, in order to get the help they need, the poor — whose ranks are swelling in the bad economy — are being told that their financial status alone makes them suspect, and to prove themselves worthy of assistance, they must front some cash and show the world they're not on drugs.

It is an affront to human decency, especially in the absence of any sign of a true problem, and it raises obvious conflicts with past court rulings calling universal drug testing unconstitutional. The American Civil Liberties Union wasted no time in filing a lawsuit seeking to overturn the measure.

But whether this ugly law passes legal muster — at a very real cost to taxpayers footing the bill to defend the measure in court — appears irrelevant to those who championed it. This is about scoring political points, not ensuring fiscal responsibility, or passing good laws.

In the end, we could all be paying more, and Florida will be the poorer for it.

BOTTOM LINE: An ugly day in Florida.

South Florida Sun-Sentinel
 
Wasn't the Tea Party all about restoring limits on our government and protecting our constitutional rights?

The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly held that government-mandated drug testing is a "search" governed by the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution. That provision says in part: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated" and mandates that government have "probable cause" before a search warrant is authorized. Random drug testing is what is known as a "suspicion-less" search. Even without probable cause to believe the person required to pee in a cup has done anything wrong, he or she is forced to turn over bodily fluids for government inspection.

Perhaps the Tea Party is not the shiny new force for libertarianism on the American political scene it often claims. Promoting big government when it comes to moral and cultural issues makes the Tea Party seem like just the latest incarnation of the New Right and the Moral Majority so popular in the 1980s and '90s.
 
Tea Party Governor Rick Scott's Drug Testing Policy Stirs Suspicion ... Will His Drug-Testing Company "Solantic" Benefit?

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One of the more popular services at Solantic, the urgent care chain co-founded by Florida Gov. Rick Scott, is drug testing, according to Solantic CEO Karen Bowling.

Given Solantic's role in that marketplace, critics are again asking whether Scott's policy initiatives - this time, requiring drug testing of state employees and welfare recipients - are designed to benefit Scott's bottom line.

The Palm Beach Post reported in an exclusive story two weeks ago that while Scott divested his interest in Solantic in January, the controlling shares went to a trust in his wife's name.

This raised a groundswell of concern and questions about his health policy initiatives, especially his push to move Medicaid into private HMOs. Solantic does not take Medicaid but does business with private Medicaid HMOs. The questions are growing louder with Scott's executive order on drug testing.

Palm Beach Post
 
These “teabaggers” are perverse characters. They are stubborn, and, for the most part, stupid and small-minded. They have fixed opinions about everything (which, more often than not, are not right), and never change their mind about anything; for nothing can convince them that they are wrong. Their principal character traits are arrogance and intolerance. They are egocentric; they care not for the greater good, but only for themselves. Indeed, they would (if they could) have the world ordered to their own liking. They are greedy, stingy and meanspirited. They are inflexible; and, likewise, they never compromise, and always insist on having everything their way. There is no dealing with them. Such persons are stumbling blocks in the road of life, and are best avoided.
 
These “teabaggers” are perverse characters. They are stubborn, and, for the most part, stupid and small-minded. They have fixed opinions about everything (which, more often than not, are not right), and never change their mind about anything; for nothing can convince them that they are wrong. Their principal character traits are arrogance and intolerance. They are egocentric; they care not for the greater good, but only for themselves. Indeed, they would (if they could) have the world ordered to their own liking. They are greedy, stingy and meanspirited. They are inflexible; and, likewise, they never compromise, and always insist on having everything their way. There is no dealing with them. Such persons are stumbling blocks in the road of life, and are best avoided.

Interesting, it sounds like you have a fixed position about everything the TEA Party movement has to say, which is difficult considering it has so many different groups all with different views. Can you tell me a position you have changed your mind on lately? Interesting that you say there is "no dealing with them" based solely on how they won't see the world exactly the way you want them to see it. You seem inflexible, a bit selfish, and fully invested in the idea that only the ideas you believe in can be right...

In short, this tirade has all the appearance of somebody looking at a reflection and finding the flaws.
 
I surely have. I have found that it is unwise to hold too firmly to one’s views; which is why I am particularly disturbed by the so-called "Tea Party" activists. There are few things written in stone (certainly not the Constitution); and much of that debatable. A wise man is flexible in his thinking: he is steadfast in his will, not his mind. Contrariwise, every fool is fully convinced, and will brook no argument against his judgment, however wrongheaded. Indeed, it is the mark of an unbalanced mind to be unwilling to consider opposing views. There are always two sides to everything, and a balanced mind weighs them both. The "teabaggers" on the other hand are single-minded and inflexible, which makes them perverse characters.
 
I surely have. I have found that it is unwise to hold too firmly to one’s views; which is why I am particularly disturbed by the so-called "Tea Party" activists. There are few things written in stone (certainly not the Constitution); and much of that debatable. A wise man is flexible in his thinking: he is steadfast in his will, not his mind. Contrariwise, every fool is fully convinced, and will brook no argument against his judgment, however wrongheaded. Indeed, it is the mark of an unbalanced mind to be unwilling to consider opposing views. There are always two sides to everything, and a balanced mind weighs them both. The "teabaggers" on the other hand are single-minded and inflexible, which makes them perverse characters.

You just say, "I have"... I asked for a specific example. Tell me where you have changed your position.

You have set this one in cement, I get that. Again. From what I see here, you are simply looking in a mirror and pointing fingers.
 
One thing I have changed my mind about recently - and no small thing either - is the methodology of government regulation regarding the current economic crisis. After considerable study and detailed research, I have come to the conclusion our approach to regulating business and finance is too heavy-handed; which has a stifling effect on economic growth while being ineffective in preventing abuses. What is needed is to curb undisclosed speculation on the financial markets and provide more transparency to commercial transactions. The problem with regulating banking and the stock market can be easily solved with a single piece of legislation. Congress should repeal the safe-harbor provisions of title 11 that exempt financial derivative contracts from bankruptcy. (Derivatives are really secret liens that conceal leveraged borrowing carried “off balance sheet” - this was the lesson learned from the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy, and why AIG was “too big to fail” necessitating the government “bail-out.”) Without that exemption for “anonymous creditors” the market will be forced to regulate itself. It’s really that simple.
 
Interesting, it sounds like you have a fixed position about everything the TEA Party movement has to say, which is difficult considering it has so many different groups all with different views. Can you tell me a position you have changed your mind on lately? Interesting that you say there is "no dealing with them" based solely on how they won't see the world exactly the way you want them to see it. You seem inflexible, a bit selfish, and fully invested in the idea that only the ideas you believe in can be right...

In short, this tirade has all the appearance of somebody looking at a reflection and finding the flaws.

Fail Damo. Nemo is stating an opinion, he is not writing and passing far right wing legislation. We are now getting a very clear picture of who and what the tea party is and isn't. Wisconsin, Florida, Maine, Ohio...

facism.jpg
 
One thing I have changed my mind about recently - and no small thing either - is the methodology of government regulation regarding the current economic crisis. After considerable study and detailed research, I have come to the conclusion our approach to regulating business and finance is too heavy-handed; which has a stifling effect on economic growth while being ineffective in preventing abuses. What is needed is to curb undisclosed speculation on the financial markets and provide more transparency to commercial transactions. The problem with regulating banking and the stock market can be easily solved with a single piece of legislation. Congress should repeal the safe-harbor provisions of title 11 that exempt financial derivative contracts from bankruptcy. (Derivatives are really secret liens that conceal leveraged borrowing carried “off balance sheet” - this was the lesson learned from the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy, and why AIG was “too big to fail” necessitating the government “bail-out.”) Without that exemption for “anonymous creditors” the market will be forced to regulate itself. It’s really that simple.

I would actually agree with this, now that we have gone there. Do you think that some of the TEA Party might support that? I believe that they would, well the libertarians among them would.

The problem that I have is you've taken a diverse group, announced you won't pay any attention to them because they are some "evil", then move on after you attempt to deride them with a funny sexual innuendo. (Admittedly, that is their fault for doing the tea bag protest... FUNNY, it is very funny)...

Seriously, dismissing a large and diverse group of ideas because some blathering loudmouths fit in the stereotype you work to fit them in is IMO a bit nuts.
 
Fail Damo. Nemo is stating an opinion, he is not writing and passing far right wing legislation. We are now getting a very clear picture of who and what the tea party is and isn't. Wisconsin, Florida, Maine, Ohio...

facism.jpg

Not really, you see what some people that support politicians are, but not the TEA Party movement which is made up of a far more diverse group of people. I remember when the right wing were upset about the libertarian tones of the TEA Party, they said much the same things that NEMO was saying here, and what you are trying to say. There is no one set of beliefs that are part of this movement as there is no central Party like Democrats or Republicans. The word "Party" distracts because we call our political groups Party as well.
 
no, the TEA partiers are mostly Libertarian. Those far right ones are jacktivists, hopping on our TEA bandwagon.

Nope...polls and surveys of tea partiers tell a much different story. They are Bushies, birthers, Beckies, Palin lovers and extreme social conservatives. They LOVE big government when it punishes people.
 
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