The Impact of Unnecessary War on America. Playing World Police.

Anti-Party

Anti-Party

Tea Is The New Kool-Aid
There is a difference between war and unnecessary war. For short readers, I'm going to start with the cost of these wars then go on.

The monitary cost of the Iraq/Afghanistan war alone. http://costofwar.com/ Now here is one that should get under your skin. The cost of lives, updated every day for Afghanistan the last was yesterday http://icasualties.org/OEF/Fatalities.aspx Now Iraq http://icasualties.org/Iraq/Fatalities.aspx

That is pretty costly. It doesn't even touch mental issue costs or family costs etc.

Now, how is it that 7 of the last 8 wars happened when a Republican was president? (don't focus on that because it depends on how you define war, I simply used wiki)

Why did we go to war with Iraq. Bush intelligence (a little birdie) said we had a significant amount of information that said Iraq had WMD's. Bush tells Congress and America this little birdie is credible and we all trusted big government. Then after going to war with them we rebuilt their country? When did we start doing that? We used Halliburton to rebuild the country, a construction contractor that happens to be on the Federal Reserve board.

Papers were on Bush's desk to go to war with Afganistan the day before 9-11. Then somewhere along the way, Afganistan was said it was BECAUSE of 9-11. Surely we didn't get anyone mad by invading a country on a lie, who could get mad about a little bombing/gunning/children dead and so on. Let me put myself in their position. If they killed my children, what would I do. I would go after them guns blazing. They would deem me a terrorist.

Why did we bomb Libya's presidents quarters? Another little birdie told the UN he was killing his people. Do a search and try to come up with any proof that Gaddafi was killing his people. There is none.

Why are we talking about going to war with Syria with this debt? Still world police, with this debt?

Flexing our muscles and beating our chest does not make us free or safe. It makes us a target. The Republicans scream, "Iraq and Afghanistan were justified!" under Democrat attacks. The Democrats scream, "Libya was justified" under Republican attacks. The parties keep justifying and don't realize they are both correct and both wrong.

Now, Iran. Bush gave a council 10 Million Dollars to discuss anti-Iran government. Opposers back then said, "No, we can't do this because it's the first step to going to war with Iran!" Today where are we. Wake up America! We are going to go to war with Iran, triggering World War 3 because Iran MIGHT have ONE nuke?!? Tons of unstable countries have tons of nukes! How many does Pakistan have?!?

Sorry so long. I get mad because the same people crying about the debt are supporting something unnecessary and this costly.
 
Most people on this site won't defend Iraq policy. Afghanistan, however, was the base of operations for al-Queda.

As for Libya, I don't think you will find many people claiming that there was a civil war over nothing. They simply might question the national necessity of getting involved. Also, we never put boots on the ground there, nor did we spend all that much money.
 
Threedee said:
Most people on this site won't defend Iraq policy. Afghanistan, however, was the base of operations for al-Queda.

As for Libya, I don't think you will find many people claiming that there was a civil war over nothing. They simply might question the national necessity of getting involved. Also, we never put boots on the ground there, nor did we spend all that much money.
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I respect your response because I was once there.

Iraq was because of Al-Queda. Please research "proof al-queda exists"

Surely it's not a bunch of people mad because Bush killed their families. Surely not. We trained the head leader of al-queda, Bin Laden. Our CIA trained him. Now he turns on us because we attacked Iraq on the information of "a little birdie" how strange.
 
Threedee said:
Most people on this site won't defend Iraq policy. Afghanistan, however, was the base of operations for al-Queda.

As for Libya, I don't think you will find many people claiming that there was a civil war over nothing. They simply might question the national necessity of getting involved. Also, we never put boots on the ground there, nor did we spend all that much money.
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I have always found it strange how individuals can compartmentalize a lack of boots on the ground as not really counting as military hostilities
 
We went to war for one simple reason. Research the Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz trilogy.

The answer becomes patently clear in short order.

As soon as those three held enough cards, we were going in somewhere. Didn't much matter where, or why.
 
Anti-Party said:
There is a difference between war and unnecessary war. For short readers, I'm going to start with the cost of these wars then go on.

The monitary cost of the Iraq/Afghanistan war alone. http://costofwar.com/ Now here is one that should get under your skin. The cost of lives, updated every day for Afghanistan the last was yesterday http://icasualties.org/OEF/Fatalities.aspx Now Iraq http://icasualties.org/Iraq/Fatalities.aspx

That is pretty costly. It doesn't even touch mental issue costs or family costs etc.

Now, how is it that 7 of the last 8 wars happened when a Republican was president? (don't focus on that because it depends on how you define war, I simply used wiki)

Why did we go to war with Iraq. Bush intelligence (a little birdie) said we had a significant amount of information that said Iraq had WMD's. Bush tells Congress and America this little birdie is credible and we all trusted big government. Then after going to war with them we rebuilt their country? When did we start doing that? We used Halliburton to rebuild the country, a construction contractor that happens to be on the Federal Reserve board.

Papers were on Bush's desk to go to war with Afganistan the day before 9-11. Then somewhere along the way, Afganistan was said it was BECAUSE of 9-11. Surely we didn't get anyone mad by invading a country on a lie, who could get mad about a little bombing/gunning/children dead and so on. Let me put myself in their position. If they killed my children, what would I do. I would go after them guns blazing. They would deem me a terrorist.

Why did we bomb Libya's presidents quarters? Another little birdie told the UN he was killing his people. Do a search and try to come up with any proof that Gaddafi was killing his people. There is none.

Why are we talking about going to war with Syria with this debt? Still world police, with this debt?

Flexing our muscles and beating our chest does not make us free or safe. It makes us a target. The Republicans scream, "Iraq and Afghanistan were justified!" under Democrat attacks. The Democrats scream, "Libya was justified" under Republican attacks. The parties keep justifying and don't realize they are both correct and both wrong.

Now, Iran. Bush gave a council 10 Million Dollars to discuss anti-Iran government. Opposers back then said, "No, we can't do this because it's the first step to going to war with Iran!" Today where are we. Wake up America! We are going to go to war with Iran, triggering World War 3 because Iran MIGHT have ONE nuke?!? Tons of unstable countries have tons of nukes! How many does Pakistan have?!?

Sorry so long. I get mad because the same people crying about the debt are supporting something unnecessary and this costly.
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Best post on JPP in a long time.
 
If I have one criticism of the OP it doesn't show the complete cost of war. It only shows the cost to US and some of the cost to our allies. It doesn't show the total cost. Particularly in lives. How many innocent Iraqi's died cause Bush lied?

I would suggest that to those whom are war hawks read both George Washingtons and Dwight Eisenhowers farewell addresses where they warn about the dangers of standing armies, foreign entaglements and the military industrial complex. These men we're not exactly socialist liberals. Our military is not and never was intended to be a profit center for industrialist or a jobs program. Our current expenditures on our military are not only economically unsustainable but they are a direct danger and threat to our democratic republic as anyone who has studied history should know.

Yet when recently drastic cuts to military spending (sequestration) back to 2007 levels (when we were still engaged in two wars) were suggested, our conservative politicians freaked out as a body. It's time for this nonsense to stop. We cannot afford to be the worlds policeman and jeapordize our own freedom and prosperity in the process.
 
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SmarterthanYou said:
I thought we weren't in tyranny?
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Where's tyranny? Somewhere in south east asia right?


Poking aside, considering all the bad consequences that we have to deal with, debt, recriminations, sowing the seeds of future enemies, there's also the moral reason not to do this. There's a phrase, sovereign nation, when we recognize a nation as sovereign we're agreeing that they have the right to figure out their own future. Then we invade them... There's no higher authority given to redress this, we're not going to an international council for a search warrant or calling a grand jury of international peers, we're doing the nosy neighbor kicking in the door with a shotgun to make sure the floor above him will stop playing their music at four in the morning. There's no remonstration that is possible for these countries, they don't get a trial, no appeal, they get the neighbor running their life at shotgun point.

We don't have a right to run other countries any more than european countries have the right to show up and tell us to legalize marijuana and abortions in all our states. Sovereign means sovereign, it doesn't mean, "we'll respect your opinion right up until you disagree with us."
 
Rana said:
I am really enjoying some of the new additions.
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Yeah, we are pretty great.
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Mott the Hoople said:
If I have one criticism of the OP it doesn't show the complete cost of war. It only shows the cost to US and some of the cost to our allies. It doesn't show the total cost. Particularly in lives. How many innocent Iraqi's died cause Bush lied?

I would suggest that to those whom are war hawks read both George Washingtons and Dwight Eisenhowers farewell addresses where they warn about the dangers of standing armies, foreign entaglements and the military industrial complex. These men we're not exactly socialist liberals. Our military is not and never was intended to be a profit center for industrialist or a jobs program. Our current expenditures on our military are not only economically unsustainable but they are a direct danger and threat to our democratic republic as anyone who has studied history should know.

Yet when recently drastic cuts to military spending (sequestration) back to 2007 levels (when we were still engaged in two wars) were suggested, our conservative politicians freaked out as a body. It's time for this nonsense to stop. We cannot afford to be the worlds policeman and jeapordize our own freedom and prosperity in the process.
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Believe me, I had way more to say. A post too long never survives. I wanted to inform and not fail fast.

A war based on a lie is not easy to pull out of. I hate Obama for not taking the stance when he came to office and say, "I am sorry. It was a horrible mistake and we will make it right" He tried to protect our reputation. Does he really think he is protecting our reputation?

Romney/Ryan were talking more war aggressively until Biden layed his meat on the table showing Paul Ryan up. It was the best VP move in history in my opinion. We DID have WWIII in our sights. I am not a Biden fan but the way he handled the VP debate makes me assume it's the reason Romney took the "I agree with everything you did Obama" route on foreign affairs.
 
If any voter really wanted to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, he/she had the opportunity to vote for Ron Paul in the Republican primaries twice. If you didn’t do that what right do you have to bitch about the undeclared, unnecessary, unconstitutional wars now?
 
Anti-Party said:
There is a difference between war and unnecessary war. For short readers, I'm going to start with the cost of these wars then go on.

The monitary cost of the Iraq/Afghanistan war alone. http://costofwar.com/ Now here is one that should get under your skin. The cost of lives, updated every day for Afghanistan the last was yesterday http://icasualties.org/OEF/Fatalities.aspx Now Iraq http://icasualties.org/Iraq/Fatalities.aspx

That is pretty costly. It doesn't even touch mental issue costs or family costs etc.

Now, how is it that 7 of the last 8 wars happened when a Republican was president? (don't focus on that because it depends on how you define war, I simply used wiki)

Why did we go to war with Iraq. Bush intelligence (a little birdie) said we had a significant amount of information that said Iraq had WMD's. Bush tells Congress and America this little birdie is credible and we all trusted big government. Then after going to war with them we rebuilt their country? When did we start doing that? We used Halliburton to rebuild the country, a construction contractor that happens to be on the Federal Reserve board.

Papers were on Bush's desk to go to war with Afganistan the day before 9-11. Then somewhere along the way, Afganistan was said it was BECAUSE of 9-11. Surely we didn't get anyone mad by invading a country on a lie, who could get mad about a little bombing/gunning/children dead and so on. Let me put myself in their position. If they killed my children, what would I do. I would go after them guns blazing. They would deem me a terrorist.

Why did we bomb Libya's presidents quarters? Another little birdie told the UN he was killing his people. Do a search and try to come up with any proof that Gaddafi was killing his people. There is none.

Why are we talking about going to war with Syria with this debt? Still world police, with this debt?

Flexing our muscles and beating our chest does not make us free or safe. It makes us a target. The Republicans scream, "Iraq and Afghanistan were justified!" under Democrat attacks. The Democrats scream, "Libya was justified" under Republican attacks. The parties keep justifying and don't realize they are both correct and both wrong.

Now, Iran. Bush gave a council 10 Million Dollars to discuss anti-Iran government. Opposers back then said, "No, we can't do this because it's the first step to going to war with Iran!" Today where are we. Wake up America! We are going to go to war with Iran, triggering World War 3 because Iran MIGHT have ONE nuke?!? Tons of unstable countries have tons of nukes! How many does Pakistan have?!?

Sorry so long. I get mad because the same people crying about the debt are supporting something unnecessary and this costly.
Click to expand...

You failed to mention that every war since the Second World War was an undeclared, unconstitutional war. The Congress hasn’t issued a formal and official declaration of war since 1941. There is no authority in the Constitution for any President to take the country to war without a formal declaration of war from the Congress. “Resolutions” from Congress that allow Presidents to decide whether they want to go to war are not constitutional declarations of war, they’re “pass the buck” cowardly cop-outs by Congress critters that want to shirk their authority and duty to the country.

I’ll also remind you that Lyndon Johnson, (Democrat) and Harry Truman, (Democrat) presided over the Vietnam and Korean wars and Obama, (Democrat) now owns the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.

I’ll also remind you that a majority of “Democrats” in the Congress voted for the unconstitutional resolution that gave Bush the unconstitutional authority to start the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.

You might think you’re Anti-Party, but your bias is as revealing as lipstick on a pig.
 
Classic Liberal said:
If any voter really wanted to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, he/she had the opportunity to vote for Ron Paul in the Republican primaries twice. If you didn’t do that what right do you have to bitch about the undeclared, unnecessary, unconstitutional wars now?
Click to expand...

I did do that...I was in full support of Ron Paul because he has extreme views but Congress makes the decisions. After the media failed to give him airtime and he lost I was in support of Gary Johnson. Until I heard Grover Norquist was a Libertarian and one of the key reasons our debt was sky rocketing. The deal with Republicans to "Spend what you want, just don't raise taxes." Libertarians had no business trying to manipulate Republicans and it's costing us dearly.

When we aren't paying for what we are spending America doesn't notice the spending because they are too busy at Starbucks. They only notice when someone accountable comes in to pay the bill. If we were paying the bill as we went instead of convincing people we didn't have to pay for it, we wouldn't have to make up for lost billing. The Bush-Obama tax cuts cost us 1.2 Trillion.

Of course you don't agree with the spending and neither do I for the MOST part. But if we would have been taxing what we were spending like in the Clinton era, the people would notice the expense and want to be more Conservative.
 
Classic Liberal said:
You failed to mention that every war since the Second World War was an undeclared, unconstitutional war. The Congress hasn’t issued a formal and official declaration of war since 1941. There is no authority in the Constitution for any President to take the country to war without a formal declaration of war from the Congress. “Resolutions” from Congress that allow Presidents to decide whether they want to go to war are not constitutional declarations of war, they’re “pass the buck” cowardly cop-outs by Congress critters that want to shirk their authority and duty to the country.

I’ll also remind you that Lyndon Johnson, (Democrat) and Harry Truman, (Democrat) presided over the Vietnam and Korean wars and Obama, (Democrat) now owns the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.

I’ll also remind you that a majority of “Democrats” in the Congress voted for the unconstitutional resolution that gave Bush the unconstitutional authority to start the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.

You might think you’re Anti-Party, but your bias is as revealing as lipstick on a pig.
Click to expand...

Yea yea, I'm a Liberal in the eyes of all Libertards. Because I use my brain and I'm not just a "aaaalllll gooovvverrrnnnmmment baaaad" zombie. You can call me a Democrat all day, it doesn't hurt my feelings.
 
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