The ‘Palestine’ Litmus Test

Guno צְבִי

We fight, We win
The fastest way to identify the stance of someone speaking about the barbaric attack launched against Israel on Simchat Torah is to note how they identify the two sides. Do they say Israel and Gaza or Israel and Hamas? Or do they refer to Israel and Palestine?

If it’s the latter, that instantly makes clear how that person – or news outlet, or political organization, or so-called humanitarian group – views Israel: that we have no right to exist here. And possibly not elsewhere either, were it up to them.


These are the same voices which have been busy rationalizing what Hamas perpetrated on October 7 and what the terrorist group has been perpetrating non-stop since seizing control of Gaza after Israel relinquished the strip nearly 20 years ago: indiscriminately attacking Israeli cities and towns with Iranian rockets, and diverting all aid money toward their terror infrastructure and their own fat bank accounts.


Likewise, those who purport to condemn Hamas’s unfathomable brutality but follow their pseudo-denouncements with a but, which inevitably occurs whenever Israel is attacked, are no less morally culpable than those who don’t condemn Hamas at all. One is just more diplomatic (or artful, depending how you view it) than the other.

There is no room for dialogue with such people, because they do not respect our humanity. They do not even recognize our humanity.


https://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/the-palestine-litmus-test/2023/11/02/
 
The fastest way to identify the stance of someone speaking about the barbaric atrocities committed against civilians by the IDF is to note how they characterize the attacks. Do they say "All atrocities should be denounced and punished, regardless of whoever commits them"? Or do they employ special pleading and excuse Israel for any and all needless savagery against innocent civilians?

If it’s the latter, that instantly makes clear that such a person – or news outlet, or political organization, or so-called humanitarian group – has joined Team Israel: that any quip at all, no matter how irrelevant, justifies war crimes committed by the IDF. "Israel has a right to defend itself!" Nazi Germany had a right to defend itself. "Atrocities happen in war. (hence they are OK)" Atrocities happened during WWII; I guess we overreacted.

These are the same voices which have been busy rationalizing the IDF's unconscionable barbarism since October 7 and what this militant group has been perpetrating non-stop since seizing control of Gaza after invading: indiscriminately bombing Gaza cities and towns with IDF missiles, and diverting aid money toward their terror infrastructure and their own fat bank accounts.

Likewise, those who purport to condemn Israel's unfathomable brutality but follow their pseudo-denouncements with a "but", which inevitably occurs whenever Israel is doing the attacking and the butchering, are no less morally culpable than those who don’t condemn the IDF at all. One is just attempting to be more diplomatic (or artful, depending how you view it) than the other.

There is no honesty to be had with such people, and certainly no rational discussion, because they consider Palestinians to be sub-human, as they consider all Arabs and Muslims. They only recognize Team Israel, right or wrong, but always right.
 
The fastest way to identify the stance of someone speaking about the barbaric atrocities committed against civilians by the IDF is to note how they characterize the attacks. Do they say "All atrocities should be denounced and punished, regardless of whoever commits them"? Or do they employ special pleading and excuse Israel for any and all needless savagery against innocent civilians?

If it’s the latter, that instantly makes clear that such a person – or news outlet, or political organization, or so-called humanitarian group – has joined Team Israel: that any quip at all, no matter how irrelevant, justifies war crimes committed by the IDF. "Israel has a right to defend itself!" Nazi Germany had a right to defend itself. "Atrocities happen in war. (hence they are OK)" Atrocities happened during WWII; I guess we overreacted.

These are the same voices which have been busy rationalizing the IDF's unconscionable barbarism since October 7 and what this militant group has been perpetrating non-stop since seizing control of Gaza after invading: indiscriminately bombing Gaza cities and towns with IDF missiles, and diverting aid money toward their terror infrastructure and their own fat bank accounts.

Likewise, those who purport to condemn Israel's unfathomable brutality but follow their pseudo-denouncements with a "but", which inevitably occurs whenever Israel is doing the attacking and the butchering, are no less morally culpable than those who don’t condemn the IDF at all. One is just attempting to be more diplomatic (or artful, depending how you view it) than the other.

There is no honesty to be had with such people, and certainly no rational discussion, because they consider Palestinians to be sub-human, as they consider all Arabs and Muslims. They only recognize Team Israel, right or wrong, but always right.

It's amazing how limited your brain is.
 
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It's amazing how limited your brain is.
Oh, the irony. You find yourself without any response and this is the best you can muster.

I heard Team Israel's new chant is "Arabs in Gaza, fry 'em like bacon!" It's pretty catchy, I admit.

Go Team Israel, right or wrong, but always right.

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Amnesty International Documentation
Damning evidence of war crimes as Israeli attacks wipe out entire families in Gaza
October 20, 2023

Full Account Here - [url]https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/
[/URL]

As Israeli forces continue to intensify their cataclysmic assault on the occupied Gaza Strip, Amnesty International has documented unlawful Israeli attacks, including indiscriminate attacks, which caused mass civilian casualties and must be investigated as war crimes.

The organization spoke to survivors and eyewitnesses, analysed satellite imagery, and verified photos and videos to investigate air bombardments carried out by Israeli forces between 7 and 12 October, which caused horrific destruction, and in some cases wiped out entire families. Here the organization presents an in-depth analysis of its findings in five of these unlawful attacks. In each of these cases, Israeli attacks violated international humanitarian law, including by failing to take feasible precautions to spare civilians, or by carrying out indiscriminate attacks that failed to distinguish between civilians and military objectives, or by carrying out attacks that may have been directed against civilian objects.

“In their stated intent to use all means to destroy Hamas, Israeli forces have shown a shocking disregard for civilian lives. They have pulverized street after street of residential buildings killing civilians on a mass scale and destroying essential infrastructure, while new restrictions mean Gaza is fast running out of water, medicine, fuel and electricity. Testimonies from eyewitness and survivors highlighted, again and again, how Israeli attacks decimated Palestinian families, causing such destruction that surviving relatives have little but rubble to remember their loved ones by,” said Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General.

For 16 years, Israel’s illegal blockade has made Gaza the world’s biggest open-air prison – the international community must act now to prevent it becoming a giant graveyard.

Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General
“The five cases presented barely scratch the surface of the horror that Amnesty has documented and illustrate the devastating impact that Israel’s aerial bombardments are having on people in Gaza. For 16 years, Israel’s illegal blockade has made Gaza the world’s biggest open-air prison – the international community must act now to prevent it becoming a giant graveyard. We are calling on Israeli forces to immediately end unlawful attacks in Gaza and ensure that they take all feasible precautions to minimize harm to civilians and damage to civilian objects. Israel’s allies must immediately impose a comprehensive arms embargo given that serious violations under international law are being committed.”

Since 7 October Israeli forces have launched thousands of air bombardments in the Gaza Strip, killing at least 3,793 people, mostly civilians, including more than 1,500 children, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza. Approximately 12,500 have been injured and more than 1,000 bodies are still trapped beneath the rubble.

In Israel, more than 1,400 people, most of them civilians, have been killed and some 3,300 others were injured, according to the Israeli Ministry of Health after armed groups from the Gaza Strip launched an unprecedented attack against Israel on 7 October. They fired indiscriminate rockets and sent fighters into southern Israel who committed war crimes including deliberately killing civilians and hostage-taking. The Israeli military says that fighters also took more than 200 civilian hostages and military captives back to the Gaza Strip.

“Amnesty International is calling on Hamas and other armed groups to urgently release all civilian hostages, and to immediately stop firing indiscriminate rockets. There can be no justification for the deliberate killing of civilians under any circumstances,” said Agnès Callamard.

Hours after the attacks began, Israeli forces started their massive bombardment of Gaza. Since then, Hamas and other armed groups have also continued to fire indiscriminate rockets into civilian areas in Israel in attacks that must also be investigated as war crimes. Meanwhile in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, at least 79 Palestinians, including 20 children, have been killed by Israeli forces or settlers amid a spike in excessive use of force by the Israeli army and an escalation in state-backed settler violence, which Amnesty International is also investigating.

Amnesty International is continuing to investigate dozens of attacks in Gaza. This output focuses on five unlawful attacks which struck residential buildings, a refugee camp, a family home and a public market. The Israeli army claims it only attacks military targets, but in a number of cases Amnesty International found no evidence of the presence of fighters or other military objectives in the vicinity at the time of the attacks. Amnesty International also found that the Israeli military failed to take all feasible precautions ahead of attacks including by not giving Palestinian civilians effective prior warnings – in some cases they did not warn civilians at all and in others they issued inadequate warnings.

“Our research points to damning evidence of war crimes in Israel’s bombing campaign that must be urgently investigated. Decades of impunity and injustice and the unprecedented level of death and destruction of the current offensive will only result in further violence and instability in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories,” said Agnès Callamard.

“It is vital that the Office of the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court urgently expedites its ongoing investigation into evidence of war crimes and other crimes under international law by all parties. Without justice and the dismantlement of Israel’s system of apartheid against Palestinians, there can be no end to the horrifying civilian suffering we are witnessing.”

The relentless bombardment of Gaza has brought unimaginable suffering to people who are already facing a dire humanitarian crisis. After 16 years under Israel’s illegal blockade, Gaza’s healthcare system is already close to ruin, and its economy is in tatters. Hospitals are collapsing, unable to cope with the sheer number of wounded people and desperately lacking in life-saving medication and equipment.

Amnesty International is calling on the international community to urge Israel to end its total siege, which has cut Gazans off from food, water, electricity and fuel and urgently allow humanitarian aid into Gaza. They must also press Israel to lift its longstanding blockade on Gaza which amounts to collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, is a war crime and is a key aspect of Israel’s system of apartheid. Finally, the Israeli authorities must rescind their “evacuation order” which may amount to forced displacement of the population.

Gaza’s civilians pay the price
Amnesty International investigated five Israeli attacks on the Gaza Strip, which took place between 7 and 12 October. Between 2012 and 2022, the Israeli authorities have denied, or failed to respond to, all of Amnesty International’s requests to gain access to Gaza. For this reason, the organization worked with a Gaza-based fieldworker who visited attack sites and collected testimony and other evidence. Amnesty International researchers interviewed 17 survivors and other eyewitnesses, as well as six relatives of victims over the phone, for the five cases included in this report. The organization’s Crisis Evidence Lab analysed satellite imagery and verified photos and videos of attack sites.

In the five cases described below Amnesty International found that Israeli forces carried out attacks that violated international humanitarian law, including by failing to take feasible precautions to spare civilians, or by carrying out indiscriminate attacks that failed to distinguish between civilians and military objectives, or by carrying out attacks that may have been directed against civilian objects.

Under international humanitarian law, all parties to the conflict must, at all times, distinguish between civilians and civilian objects and fighters and military objectives and direct their attacks only at fighters and military objectives. Direct attacks on civilians or civilian objects are prohibited and are war crimes. Indiscriminate attacks – those which fail to distinguish as required – are also prohibited. Where an indiscriminate attack kills or injuries civilians, it amounts to a war crime. Disproportionate attacks, those where the expected harm to civilians and civilian objects is excessive in comparison with the “concrete and direct military advantage anticipated,” also are prohibited. Knowingly launching a disproportionate attack is a war crime.

Whole families wiped out
At around 8:20pm on 7 October, Israeli forces struck a three-storey residential building in the al-Zeitoun neighbourhood of Gaza City, where three generations of the al-Dos family were staying. Fifteen family members were killed in the attack, seven of them children. The victims include Awni and Ibtissam al-Dos, and their grandchildren and namesakes Awni, 12, and Ibtissam, 17; and Adel and Ilham al-Dos and all five of their children. Baby Adam, just 18 months old, was the youngest victim.

Our entire family has been destroyed.

Mohammad al-Dos
Mohammad al-Dos, whose five-year-old son Rakan was killed in the attack, told Amnesty International:

“Two bombs fell suddenly on top of the building and destroyed it. My wife and I were lucky to survive because we were staying on the top floor. She was nine-months pregnant and gave birth at al-Shifa hospital a day after the attack. Our entire family has been destroyed.”

...
 
I'm not sure that the right to exist issue should matter to Israel whether it's a legitimate question or not.

I doubt that Euro descended people had a right to displace the indigenous Americans over here, but we did.
Now, so many generations later, would we submit to sacrificing our survival because we may not have a legitimate right to be here?

Yes, Israel was carved out of the Middle East in the late 1940s as a new home for largely European Jews
and Palestinians were displaced in the process.

But that's where we are now, and if the parties are truly incompatible, they're going to have to fight to the finish.
The PLO set the rules at the outset, not the Jews, with their terror tactics against civilians.
Tough luck for them if the Jews turn out to be better at it.

I don't think that American Palestine supporters have a leg to stand on, regardless of where they may stand on other political matters.
Not if they're kvetching about Palestinian innocents being killed.

Even if the Palestinians have a right to wage war, they can't expect Israel to take a dive for them.
If they're not up to winning their war, under the rules that they themselves set for it, then they should perish, soldiers and civilians alike.
That's the real world.
 
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Oh, the irony. You find yourself without any response and this is the best you can muster.

I heard Team Israel's new chant is "Arabs in Gaza, fry 'em like bacon!" It's pretty catchy, I admit.

Go Team Israel, right or wrong, but always right.

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Here's what you seem incapable of grasping, hamas is a terrorist organization. They use innocent civilians as shields because they are filthy fucking animals. Every and I mean every fucking death is on their heads. You're either a fucking idiot or nazi if you don't realize it. In your case but appears to be both.
 
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If I haven't explicitly stated this previously, I officially distance myself from Team Israel and their immoral special pleading to excuse atrocities committed by the IDF.

Here's what you seem incapable of grasping, hamas is a terrorist organization.
Hamas has nothing to do with the atrocities committed by the IDF. Nazi Israel is the topic, i.e. the HATE-based racism, the vitriol, the genocide, the war crimes, etc ... Nobody is forcing the IDF eradicate civilian noncombatants in manners that are universally recognized as illegal, ... universally, that is, except for Team Israel who has abandoned all sanity, all humanity, and all conscience and has opted to support the emerging Fourth Reich.

They use innocent civilians as shields because they are filthy fucking animals.
Nope. Your completely lame attempt to excuse illegal IDF savagery is dismissed. Just because some terrorists have used human shields in the past does not, in any way, excuse the IDF's indiscriminate air strikes on civilian targets. The IDF has killed thousands of non-combatants who never attacked Israel while Team Israel cheers them on. People like you have no excuse, and neither do the IDF criminals who should very well face hanging charges in an international tribunal when this is all over.

Every and I mean every fucking death is on their heads.
Nope. Every single death is on the hands of the IDF and Team Israel. If people like you had had even a shred of moral integrity, you'd be pressuring your team to avoid the war crimes. You should know that Israel can fully defend itself without engaging in war crimes, every one of which is the full responsibility of Israel. Your stupid attempts to blame Hamas and Palestinian civilians themselves for the atrocities perpetrated upon the civilian populations that never attacked Israel.

What your HATE-based racism will not allow is for you to acknowledge that the Palestinian civilian families, who are being butchered by the IDF, never attacked Israel ... but Israel is sure attacking them. Let's hear another cheer for the IDF and their genocide. Thousands dead who never attacked Israel and who were alive and well weeks ago ... just because they are Arabs/Muslims.

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I tend to use the terms Israel v. Gaza or Hamas. This is because Gaza is run by Hamas. Hamas is the government there, like it or not. Gaza is really a separate state, entity, whatever from the West Bank run by the Palestinian Authority. It's like there are two quasi-countries of Palestinians, Gaza and the West Bank. They each have their own, separate, government.

Currently Israel is at war with Gaza run by Hamas because Hamas launched a surprise 'military' attack on Israel and now Israel is going to stomp Hama's collective dicks in the dirt as they well should for being viciously attacked.

It's on Hamas that their military arm is so utterly fucked up it can't fight a 'real' military. Hamas combatants do wear a uniform:

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That in effect makes them "enemy combatants" and a military. Sure, they have no credible military organization beyond 'the herd,' and no worthwhile hierarchy to conduct larger scale operations. They lack anything in the way of weapons beyond those that are man portable and can be used by one person, or at most a few individuals, acting almost entirely on their own without any real coordination as a larger unit.

So, yea, Hamas is in for a major ass kicking as the Israelis have a real army with real equipment, that's organized and trained as a real military. It just speaks to how fucked up Arab culture is that Hamas cannot manage the same.
 
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