The United States Shares the Blame for the Russia-Georgia Crisis

blackascoal

The Force is With Me
American blunders fostered the situation, and now the United States will pay a high global price

War became unavoidable in the Caucasus when Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili sent the country's military to "liberate" the autonomous region of South Ossetia from its Moscow-backed local authorities. While Georgia and Russia bear principal responsibility for a conflict that both have been courting for years, the United States also shares the blame. And now America's interests will suffer, not only in Georgia and the former Soviet Union but around the world.

America contributed to the war in Georgia in two important ways. First, together with its European allies, Washington established two precedents: use of force without approval of the United Nations Security Council and the division of a sovereign nation without U.N. consent. Both precedents emerged out of Kosovo's quest for independence from Serbia, which led in 1999 to U.S.-directed NATO airstrikes against Serbia to drive Serbian military and police forces out of its Kosovo province. The Clinton administration and NATO conducted the strikes—both in Kosovo and in Serbia proper, where the attacks targeted not only security units but also civilian infrastructure, like power stations—over Russia's strong opposition in the Security Council. Russia today is repeating NATO's 1999 justification of its action in arguing that Georgia conducted ethnic cleansing and genocide in South Ossetia and that Moscow was obliged to respond because of its role as a peacekeeper.

More recently, in 2007 and 2008, the United States and some European governments endorsed Kosovo's desire for independence, despite the fact that it remained a part of Serbia, and recognized it earlier this year. Currently, about one quarter of U.N. members and about three quarters of European Union members recognize Kosovo. The Kremlin argued at the time that the move would create a precedent for other separatist regions, including South Ossetia and Abkhazia in Georgia. Bush administration officials in turn stated that Kosovo was a unique case, apparently believing that they could define what Kosovo's independence meant to others.

Second, Bush administration officials, especially the vice president's office and some (but definitely not all) in the State Department, recklessly encouraged Saakashvili and other senior Georgian officials to believe that Tbilisi had a blank check from Washington. They do not appear to have done this deliberately; in fact, American officials have repeatedly told the Georgian government that the status of South Ossetia and Abkhazia should be resolved peacefully. But the United States regularly undermined this important message by routinely siding with Georgia in its frequent spats with Moscow, providing hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign aid, and essentially ignoring Saakashvili's growing authoritarianism. More important, the United States provided extensive military aid and training for Georgian troops. Some have argued that this help increased Georgian leaders' confidence that military action in South Ossetia could succeed.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice added fuel to this fire on July 10 when appearing beside Saakashvili in Tbilisi, she said, "Mr. President, we always fight for our friends." Although it is clear from the State Department transcript that Secretary Rice was referring to U.S. willingness to fight European opposition to begin the process of bringing Georgia into NATO by offering a membership action plan at a scheduled December summit, most in the region viewed it as a thinly veiled expression of support for the Georgian regime at a time when tensions were already growing over South Ossetia and Abkhazia. As in the case of U.S. involvement in Kosovo, American officials seemed to miss the difference between what they think they are saying and what others think they are hearing.

What are the consequences? The war in Georgia is a major policy failure and, unfortunately, could ultimately have high costs for America. Among some possible results:

A new reality on the ground, with Russia occupying and controlling both South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

A possible collapse of Saakashvili's government, which, combined with an emerging Georgian sense that the country was abandoned by America, could result in a less friendly regime in Tbilisi.

An end to Georgia's chances of entering NATO—if Georgians continue to want it—because of considerably greater European resistance prompted by reluctance to confront Moscow.

Disillusionment with the United States in much of the rest of the former Soviet Union, where Washington will be seen as failing to protect Georgia after Tbilisi provided 2,000 troops in Iraq. This could encourage some governments to pursue closer ties with Russia.

Significant weakening of the United Nations Security Council due to lingering deep divisions over the conflict, with Washington unable to use the body to manage Iran, North Korea, or other important global challenges.

Strengthening of Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and the country's security services at the expense of new President Dmitry Medvedev and the relative liberals among his key supporters.

Serious damage to the U.S.-Russian relationship, threatening cooperation on arms control, securing Russian nuclear materials, Iran, North Korea, terrorism, energy, and a host of other issues. Moscow's nonreaction to White House statements that the conflict could damage bilateral relations reflects the degree to which Russian officials see little benefit to working with Washington and have moved beyond their previous focus on U.S.-Russian ties.
A suggestion to some countries, such as Iran, Syria, Venezuela, and Cuba, that with Russian support they can resist American pressure. Hamas and Hezbollah could be similarly emboldened. Most problematic, if America's ties to China sour, Beijing's tactical cooperation with Moscow could grow.

South Ossetia, Abkhazia, and even Georgia itself may seem like small and distant lands to most Americans, but the war there—and the mistakes that led to it—may affect them directly in unexpected and powerful ways. Hopefully U.S. officials, as well as former officials and pundits in both parties who supported them in enabling Saakashvili's dangerous behavior, will learn a valuable lesson about unintended consequences. The United States remains the world's only superpower, but it cannot afford too many more blunders on this scale.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news...e-for-the-russia-georgia-crisis.html?PageNr=2

Since the end of WWII the US has operated on a premise of "do as I say, not what I do" .. but those days are over forever .. and good riddance.
 
"Since the end of WWII the US has operated on a premise of "do as I say, not what I do" .. but those days are over forever .. and good riddance"

I take the point, but don't believe that other strong nations murdering poor people is a good outcome. I have always believed that if any nation had the power we have, they would use it no better than we have. Well, here's the evidence, which, as the United States continues its decline, and Russia and China continue their rise, we will see more and more of.
 
"Since the end of WWII the US has operated on a premise of "do as I say, not what I do" .. but those days are over forever .. and good riddance"

I take the point, but don't believe that other strong nations murdering poor people is a good outcome. I have always believed that if any nation had the power we have, they would use it no better than we have. Well, here's the evidence, which, as the United States continues its decline, and Russia and China continue their rise, we will see more and more of.

I agree with you .. my point, more clearly stated, is that even the guys in the white hats must be held to the same standards of international law as everybody else.

If nuclear weapons are bad, then they are bad for everyone.

If it's wrong to invade small nations simply because you can, then it's wrong for everybody.

I believe in international law and the enforcement of it.

If the "good guys" don't care about justice why should a rising Russia or China?

Good riddance to American exceptionalism at the expense, and often the lives, of countless innnocent people. I don't condone any nation that engages in it, including my own.
 
Can't be, BAC. Dixie asserted on another thread just yesterday that Bush alone has kept Russian aggression "in check" for the past 7+ years.

We should be grateful; they would have taken over half the world by now if not for Bush & his vigilance.
 
Can't be, BAC. Dixie asserted on another thread just yesterday that Bush alone has kept Russian aggression "in check" for the past 7+ years.

We should be grateful; they would have taken over half the world by now if not for Bush & his vigilance.

:cof1:

Thank you for that my friend.
 
Can't be, BAC. Dixie asserted on another thread just yesterday that Bush alone has kept Russian aggression "in check" for the past 7+ years.

We should be grateful; they would have taken over half the world by now if not for Bush & his vigilance.

It almost seems as if Dixie is the survivor of a brain donor operation. I never saw anything like it. Reading his posts is surreal.
 
I agree with you .. my point, more clearly stated, is that even the guys in the white hats must be held to the same standards of international law as everybody else.

If nuclear weapons are bad, then they are bad for everyone.

If it's wrong to invade small nations simply because you can, then it's wrong for everybody.

I believe in international law and the enforcement of it.

If the "good guys" don't care about justice why should a rising Russia or China?

Good riddance to American exceptionalism at the expense, and often the lives, of countless innnocent people. I don't condone any nation that engages in it, including my own.

I don't agree with the logic "A few nations have nuclear weapons so everyone should have them". The less the better. I don't give a fuck about fairness in this regard.
 
I agree with you .. my point, more clearly stated, is that even the guys in the white hats must be held to the same standards of international law as everybody else.

If nuclear weapons are bad, then they are bad for everyone.

If it's wrong to invade small nations simply because you can, then it's wrong for everybody.

I believe in international law and the enforcement of it.

If the "good guys" don't care about justice why should a rising Russia or China?

Good riddance to American exceptionalism at the expense, and often the lives, of countless innnocent people. I don't condone any nation that engages in it, including my own.

I agree with all except one. Our possession of nukes makes us immune to all sorts of aggression. There are a few exceptions, such as al-Queda and similar stateless entities.

In addition, I view international law to be a joke, because I put absolutely no stock in the nations we are cooperating with. Anything we sign onto we should hold in good faith, but--like the rules of the road--expect to be the only one doing what you are supposed to do...
 
I don't agree with the logic "A few nations have nuclear weapons so everyone should have them". The less the better. I don't give a fuck about fairness in this regard.
\

My point wasn't that everyone should have them .. on the contrary, NO ONE should have them.

However, if Israel has them then Iran should have them.

You cannot dictate who gets to have a gun if you have one.
 
The United States Shares the Blame for the Russia-Georgia Crisis

I have to fundamentally disagree, it is clearly NOT the US who is to blame! It simply HAS to be the fault of George W. Bush! You see, everything negative in the world that has ever been or will ever be, is the fault of George W. Bush in some way. I'm sure you've just not completely thought this through.
 
I agree with all except one. Our possession of nukes makes us immune to all sorts of aggression. There are a few exceptions, such as al-Queda and similar stateless entities.

In addition, I view international law to be a joke, because I put absolutely no stock in the nations we are cooperating with. Anything we sign onto we should hold in good faith, but--like the rules of the road--expect to be the only one doing what you are supposed to do...

I completely disagree that our nukes "makes us immune to all sorts of aggression." They make us safer, but not immune to nuclear attack from other nations that have them, but not, as you say, from stateless entities or from nations who believe America is going to use them against them.

Additionally there are elements within our own government who believe we should use nuclear weapons "tactically" against states that do not have them. This is cowardly, dangerous, and will lead to a nuclear event in America.

Americans never like international law because we believe ourselves to be above the law, and that law should be only interpreted by Americans .. who don't believe in it.

International law is coming to America whether we like it or not because the rest of the world is protecting themselves from us. We may soon look up and find ourselves standing alone with Israel as our only "friend."
 
I have to fundamentally disagree, it is clearly NOT the US who is to blame! It simply HAS to be the fault of George W. Bush! You see, everything negative in the world that has ever been or will ever be, is the fault of George W. Bush in some way. I'm sure you've just not completely thought this through.


Oh, now - that's not true. I don't blame him for the Red Sox winning the World Series, or for Britney's demise.

I do blame him for America losing their standing in the world, for pissing away trillions that future generations will have to pay off, for easing environmental standards & opening up millions of protected acres, thereby worsening our planet's health, appointing cronies like Brownie to vital positions in our gov't instead of people who are actually qualified & competent, making us less safe with a counter-productive, unnecessary & destructive war in Iraq, giving the world the impression that we're all hillbillies, ignoring important issues like healthcare while botching important issues like education, caving to the narrowest element of his base to delay groundbreaking medical research, and generally being the dumbest, most incompetent and unqualified President we've had in modern history.

I do give him credit for getting a whole new generation turned off to the GOP, though.
 
Oh, now - that's not true. I don't blame him for the Red Sox winning the World Series, or for Britney's demise.

You have obviously just not thought about it long enough.... Bush used to own a baseball team.... coincidence? hmmmm? Bush has daughters who are around Britney's age.... another coincidence? hmmmmm? You see, there is some connection there, and it has been established by Keith Olberman, that Bush is responsible for everything bad that happens in life, along with Dick Cheney, his trusty sidekick. Now, how can you dispute Keith Olberman????
 
I have to fundamentally disagree, it is clearly NOT the US who is to blame! It simply HAS to be the fault of George W. Bush! You see, everything negative in the world that has ever been or will ever be, is the fault of George W. Bush in some way. I'm sure you've just not completely thought this through.

Obviously you didn't read the article because you've challenged no conclusion in it and haven't presented any counter evidence. Perhaps you haven't thought through the issue yourself.

Some of us operate on facts not ideological "patriotic" whimsy that ignores them.

I'm sure you think George Bush is a great president. :)

When/if you conjure up some facts that support your whimsy .. I'd sure like to hear it.
 
You have obviously just not thought about it long enough.... Bush used to own a baseball team.... coincidence? hmmmm? Bush has daughters who are around Britney's age.... another coincidence? hmmmmm? You see, there is some connection there, and it has been established by Keith Olberman, that Bush is responsible for everything bad that happens in life, along with Dick Cheney, his trusty sidekick. Now, how can you dispute Keith Olberman????

Southern comedy is a good way to avoid dealing with facts.

Again, you've not challenged anything posted .. just reach for Jeff Foxworthy and use that as "logic."
 
Georgia leader expects U.S. military help
Pentagon denies it will control seaports, airports in crisis with Russia

TBILISI, Georgia - President Mikhail Saakashvili told his people Wednesday that the U.S. military will take control of the ex-Soviet state's seaports and airports as part of a humanitarian aid mission amid Georgia's battle with Russia, but the Pentagon quickly shot down the claim.

Bush announced the U.S. humanitarian effort prior to Saakashvili's comments, which came in a televised address to his nation. Bush said the mission had already begun and involved U.S. aircraft as well as naval forces.

Saakashvili then told Georgians: "You have heard the statement by the U.S. president that the United States is starting a military-humanitarian operation in Georgia. It means that Georgian ports and airports will be taken under the control of the U.S. defense ministry in order to conduct humanitarian and other missions. This is a very important statement for easing tension."


-- more at link ..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26116598

Is this guy on drugs?
 
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