To Blackascoal, and All

jollie

New member
Yes, blackascoal, I did miss your response to the "3 questions", but I will FIND it, and gladly do battle with you(in a Political-Debate kinda way), but before I do that, I want to say, I saw something that you wrote, in answer to your "Apologize" post.

I, too, have a daughter. Thankfully, she is too young, for Military Service, but Almost ALL of my "Insane Rants", to quote some of your colleagues here, are dedicated to the premise that I FEAR for MY daughter's safety, as well as yours, and all the other children of concerned parents, Left and Right. I wish to THANK your daughter, and I hope and pray for her safe return to you. But I fear that the World of Tomorrow will be a Very Scary Place, indeed, for ALL of us, children and Grand-children, if we DON'T draw a Line in the Sand, and say, "NO Further". I'm ALL FOR holding hands, and singing Kum-ba-ya, and saying, "Hello, Mr. Enemy, who chants, "Death to America". We want to be your freinds, we DON'T want to FIGHT you."

But WHAT HAPPENS, when, as History SHOWS, our Enemies, WHEREVER they are from, take that "Hand of Freindship", shake it, smile, then Behind our Backs, plot to DESTROY us, or at Least, to Test Better Weapons, because they saw that "Hand of Freindship" as a SIGN OF WEAKNESS, as a MESSAGE OF COWARDICE?
You see, as many Historians, Sociologists, or Psychologists have said, a Big problem in America is Believing that the REST of the World thinks like WE do. The General Populations may have common goals and desires. But some of the LEADERSHIP, some of these Men in POWER, are NOT the same. A "Hand of Freindship", here in America, is at first, though of as a sign of Peace, a sign that the Other Party has GOOD Intentions.

But as History has SHOWN, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, in Many Cultures other than our OWN, "Appeasement, Freindship and Negotiation" is seen as WEAKNESS, seen as FEAR.
Freindship and Negotiation are FINE, but they have to be BACKED UP WITH STRENGTH, with CONDITIONS and PENALTIES, if the "deal" is BROKEN. I think we have seen ENOUGH countries PROMISE us PEACE, such as the Germans, the Japanese, the Soviets, the Palestinians, the Iranians, the Iraqis(under Saddam),the Syrians, the North Koreans.

The list is VERY long, of "deals" we got SCREWED on. or LIED to. I'm just saying, in today's world, where Plutonium, Uranium, and the TECHNOLOGY are AVAILABLE, for anyone with enough MONEY, and some good engineers, that we have to PROTECT OURSELVES. We CAN'T just go around WISHING that other World Leader's INTENTIONS are the same as OURS. Because Common Sense tells us they are NOT. Many people in charge of nations, in 2008 want POWER, much MORE POWER, than they currently HAVE. Add THAT, to the fact that many of these SAME Power-Seekers have a HATRED, or "Strong Dislike" for America, (do the words "Great Satan" ring a bell?), and you have a Recipe for our Betrayal, if we ALLOW it.
Reagan had a great saying: "Trust but VERIFY". Another was "Peace through Strength".

But what I started out saying, blackascoal, was that I UNDERSTAND your concern, for the safety of your daughter. She will be in my prayers, that she will be safely reunited with you and your family. I too, believe it is time for the Iraqis to start standing on their own, and to handle their own security. We have done enough, there.

:hand: :hand: :hand:
 
Yes, blackascoal, I did miss your response to the "3 questions", but I will FIND it, and gladly do battle with you(in a Political-Debate kinda way), but before I do that, I want to say, I saw something that you wrote, in answer to your "Apologize" post.

I, too, have a daughter. Thankfully, she is too young, for Military Service, but Almost ALL of my "Insane Rants", to quote some of your colleagues here, are dedicated to the premise that I FEAR for MY daughter's safety, as well as yours, and all the other children of concerned parents, Left and Right. I wish to THANK your daughter, and I hope and pray for her safe return to you. But I fear that the World of Tomorrow will be a Very Scary Place, indeed, for ALL of us, children and Grand-children, if we DON'T draw a Line in the Sand, and say, "NO Further". I'm ALL FOR holding hands, and singing Kum-ba-ya, and saying, "Hello, Mr. Enemy, who chants, "Death to America". We want to be your freinds, we DON'T want to FIGHT you."

But WHAT HAPPENS, when, as History SHOWS, our Enemies, WHEREVER they are from, take that "Hand of Freindship", shake it, smile, then Behind our Backs, plot to DESTROY us, or at Least, to Test Better Weapons, because they saw that "Hand of Freindship" as a SIGN OF WEAKNESS, as a MESSAGE OF COWARDICE?
You see, as many Historians, Sociologists, or Psychologists have said, a Big problem in America is Believing that the REST of the World thinks like WE do. The General Populations may have common goals and desires. But some of the LEADERSHIP, some of these Men in POWER, are NOT the same. A "Hand of Freindship", here in America, is at first, though of as a sign of Peace, a sign that the Other Party has GOOD Intentions.

But as History has SHOWN, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, in Many Cultures other than our OWN, "Appeasement, Freindship and Negotiation" is seen as WEAKNESS, seen as FEAR.
Freindship and Negotiation are FINE, but they have to be BACKED UP WITH STRENGTH, with CONDITIONS and PENALTIES, if the "deal" is BROKEN. I think we have seen ENOUGH countries PROMISE us PEACE, such as the Germans, the Japanese, the Soviets, the Palestinians, the Iranians, the Iraqis(under Saddam),the Syrians, the North Koreans.

The list is VERY long, of "deals" we got SCREWED on. or LIED to. I'm just saying, in today's world, where Plutonium, Uranium, and the TECHNOLOGY are AVAILABLE, for anyone with enough MONEY, and some good engineers, that we have to PROTECT OURSELVES. We CAN'T just go around WISHING that other World Leader's INTENTIONS are the same as OURS. Because Common Sense tells us they are NOT. Many people in charge of nations, in 2008 want POWER, much MORE POWER, than they currently HAVE. Add THAT, to the fact that many of these SAME Power-Seekers have a HATRED, or "Strong Dislike" for America, (do the words "Great Satan" ring a bell?), and you have a Recipe for our Betrayal, if we ALLOW it.
Reagan had a great saying: "Trust but VERIFY". Another was "Peace through Strength".

But what I started out saying, blackascoal, was that I UNDERSTAND your concern, for the safety of your daughter. She will be in my prayers, that she will be safely reunited with you and your family. I too, believe it is time for the Iraqis to start standing on their own, and to handle their own security. We have done enough, there.

:hand: :hand: :hand:

I appreciate your thoughts about my daughter and I hope you never have to endure the anxiety of fearing for your daughter's safety while she's stuck in a war zone.

"Peace through strength" is much like the Isshinryu (Okinawan Karate) code of offering the open hand of peace before resulting to the closed fist of aggression. The open hand of peace [i[is[/i] strength, every bit as powerful as the closed fist of aggression, The open hand of peace IS strength and history attests to its power.

One is not as powerful as they believe themselves to be if all they have is the closed fist of aggression. We are militarily, the most powerful closed fist on the planet, yet we couldn't defeat the tiny nation of Vietnam nor will we ever be able to defeat the small nation of Iraq. Small nations thousands of miles away and we tremble in fear.

Military victories win battles, diplomatic victories wins wars .. and military victories are far more costly.

With respect, your post is filled with fear.

"Death to America"

"plot to DESTROY us"

"SIGN OF WEAKNESS"

"MESSAGE OF COWARDICE"

"WEAKNESS"

"FEAR"

"PROTECT OURSELVES"

You speak from a position of fear and you don't even know what you're afraid of .. other than other people are different so they must be scary. You're afraid of cultures that you don't define. It will be impossible for you to appreciate or even understand the power of diplomacy, the power of the open hand as long as your existence is shrouded in fear.

Also there is another element at work that you can neither define nor even see as long as you exist in the state of fear. It's the power of deception and illusion.

Ronald Reagan talked a lot of tough cowboy shit, but behind the scenes he was negotiating with the Iranians during the hostage crisis and promising them weapons even before he became the president. So while he was playing the cowboy on television, he was negotiating in diplomacy when the cameras were off.

Take North Korea .. as long as the cowboys were talking we came closer to confrontation everyday. Then europe stepped in, engaged in diplomacy, and 5minutes later North Korea is on a course to resolution.

Look at the product of cowboy tough guy six-gun trigger happy foreign policy .. Iraq. No need to go through the litany of incredible costs in terms of money, resources, and lives .. but the costs in power, stature, and influence have been devastating .. more than any terrorist group or organization could have ever inflicted on theis country.

We did it to ourselves, and in the interm we made Iran more powerful than they could have achieved by themselves.

Cowboy foreign policy is dead, over and done with. We don't even frighten tiny nations with it anymore. The world is building stronger and different alliances .. and we aren't invited. Even europe has stepped away from us.

Research the Shanghai Cooperation Organization .. are we going to bully them, or are we going to seek diplomacy?

How are you safer?
 
Who Lied to the American people in the lead up to the Iraq war?

Madeline Albright
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,)
Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI)
Al Gore
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA)
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV)
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA)
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV)
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA)
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY)
Senator John Edwards (D-NC)
Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL)
President Clinton
Sandy Berger
others....


Want the infamous quotes ?
 
Madeline Albright
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,)
Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI)
Al Gore
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA)
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV)
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA)
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV)
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA)
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY)
Senator John Edwards (D-NC)
Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL)
President Clinton
Sandy Berger
others....


Want the infamous quotes ?

The sad thing about your post is that you're serious.

That's sad.

Not only is it completely divorced from reality, it's even divorced from perception.

No one with half a brain is going to believe democrats are responsible for this war and had it been the "cakewalk" those half-brained people were led to believe it was going to be, then you would be taking credit for it.

If it makes you feel better then go ahead and post the quotes you believe blames democrats for leading America into war. .. Then I, and possibly others here will post the real evidence that indicts the real crooks .. AGAIN.

I am truly and forever amazed by the power cognitive dissonance.
 
You bet I'm serious....for more than 5 years they warned us about the danger of Saddam and the infamous quotes are there for those with more than half a brain to read.

No one made the quotes up, they are no not fiction, they are real in every sense...

To deny what those Dimocrats said for 5 years or more is to completely divorce yourself from reality and from perception.

Then .... to ignore the FACT that enough Dimocrats VOTED to give Bush the power to use force against Saddam is again to divorce yourself from reality....

Facts are stubborn little things that just don't disappear because YOU happen to ignore them....
And the facts show that the Dims were warning us for years prior to the war, about Saddam and WMD and threatening to use force against him to prevent him from developing them, having them, or using them....
THEN voting for the war resolution....it happened, IT IS FACT...IT IS HISTORY
 
Cognitive dissonance

In simple terms, it can be the filtering of information that conflicts with what one already believes, in an effort to ignore that information and reinforce one's beliefs. In detailed terms, it is the perception of incompatibility between two cognitions, where "cognition" is defined as any element of knowledge, including attitude, emotion, belief, or behavior. The theory of cognitive dissonance states that contradicting cognitions serve as a driving force that compels the mind to acquire or invent new thoughts or beliefs, or to modify existing beliefs, so as to reduce the amount of dissonance (conflict) between cognitions.
--------------------------
The quotes are real...the vote was real....
obviously I have no reality to deny....

So maybe its your reality that needs examination....it is you that must ignore the quotes from your Dems....and the resolution they helped pass....
 
Bravo, that song & dance is OLD, dude. It's played out. Trust me - you & Hannity are about the only ones buying it.

Bush's war. Your war. History isn't going to cut you any slack on this one.
 
Bravo, that song & dance is OLD, dude. It's played out. Trust me - you & Hannity are about the only ones buying it.

Bush's war. Your war. History isn't going to cut you any slack on this one.

This isn't about the war Sonny...its about historical facts.....
and some that choose to ignore them....:321:
 
This isn't about the war Sonny...its about historical facts.....
and some that choose to ignore them....:321:

The only side rewriting history is yours, because you have to in order to sleep at night.

I'm in a position where I can say I was right all along. It's small consolation, because the situation is so tragic, but my conscience is clear.
 
The only side rewriting history is yours, because you have to in order to sleep at night.

I'm in a position where I can say I was right all along. It's small consolation, because the situation is so tragic, but my conscience is clear.

Really...?

Did many prominent Democrats over the course of say 5 or 6 years prior to the Iraq War make various statement warning us of the threats posed by Saddam and WMD, including President Clinton himself.....

Did the War Resolution Pass with the help of Democratic voters in Congress...

-----------
Read up on cognitive dissonance...you obviously need mental/medical help...

It wouldn't hurt to familiarize yourself with "Freudian Projection"...

You can be helped....
 
Really...?

Did many prominent Democrats over the course of say 5 or 6 years prior to the Iraq War make various statement warning us of the threats posed by Saddam and WMD, including President Clinton himself.....

Did the War Resolution Pass with the help of Democratic voters in Congress...

-----------
Read up on cognitive dissonance...you obviously need mental/medical help...

It wouldn't hurt to familiarize yourself with "Freudian Projection"...

You can be helped....


I won't deny most of that, though the MAJORITY of Dems did vote "nay."

You love posting your long list of cut & paste quotes, but I kind of like it, too - because not a one of them calls for invasion or any kind of major military action. That's because as late as 2001, Colin Powell & Condi Rice both reported that Saddam was contained & not even a threat to his immediate neighbors. And as late as March, 2003, Hans Blix was reporting that inspectors had unfettered access to all suspected sites.

It was Bush & the PNAC agenda, as well as his many enablers (see: mirror) that created the mad rush to war, using 9/11 as a convenient excuse. Even Wolfowicz admitted that; you don't have the intellectual honestly to do so.

Regardless, it makes little difference what the likes of you or I say on an internet message board. History will report this as Bush's war, and future generations will try to learn from the willing gullibility of many Americans (again, see: mirror) that allowed something like this to happen.
 
My favorite part of this, as always, is the very clear realization that if hacks like bravo thought this war was any kind of success, or still thought it was the right thing to do, they wouldn't be tripping over themselves trying to give Democrats "credit"....
 
My favorite part of this, as always, is the very clear realization that if hacks like bravo thought this war was any kind of success, or still thought it was the right thing to do, they wouldn't be tripping over themselves trying to give Democrats "credit"....

There is neither credit nor blame....there IS TRUTH...like it or not....

And how many Dims voted for or against the War Resolution is irrelevant...IT WOULD NOT HAVE PASSED WITHOUT THE DIM 'AYES'....

For six years the Dims raved and ranted about the danger Saddam and WMD posed to the US .... then ran like hell when their words were later shoved in their faces....like the hypocrites they are
 
Like I said, my conscience is clear. I have been opposed to this war from the beginning. My memory is good, too, and I remember exactly what got us into this mess. I have said many times, I do not give those who voted for the resolution any kind of pass.

I don't feel the need to defend a political party to the bitter end, like you do. My own views on this topic have always been clear, and have never waivered; and I was right. You were wrong.
 
Like I said, my conscience is clear. I have been opposed to this war from the beginning. My memory is good, too, and I remember exactly what got us into this mess. I have said many times, I do not give those who voted for the resolution any kind of pass.

I don't feel the need to defend a political party to the bitter end, like you do. My own views on this topic have always been clear, and have never waivered; and I was right. You were wrong.

And yet that is exactly what you do....ignore the actions of "your" party like they had absolutely nothing to do with the issues we face today...

Even before Bush...Dims ranted about Saddam and WMD and repeatedly warned the US of the threat he posed...

Before 911...Dims CONTINUED to rant about Saddam and WMD and repeatedly warned the US of the threat he posed...

After 911....Dims still continued to rant about Saddam and WMD and repeatedly warned the US of the threat he posed...

After Bush retaliated against AQ in Afgan. ...Dims still ranted about Saddam and WMD and repeatedly warned the US of the threat he posed...

Then .... enough Dims voted with the Repubs. to PASS the War Resolution


ALL THIS IS FACT...and all this had its effects on future decisions and happenings....
Yet ...its all of these facts of history that you completely ignore or play down to imply that all this had no effect on events....


No one denies Bush made the final decision...but he didn't do it in a vacuum...
Sorry dude...lying to yourself to defend your party it what you do...
Is it possible you don't realize you do it ?
 
Last edited:
And yet that is exactly what you do....ignore the actions of "your" party like they had absolutely nothing to do with the issues we face today...

Even before Bush...Dims ranted about Saddam and WMD and repeatedly warned the US of the threat he posed...

Before 911...Dims CONTINUED to rant about Saddam and WMD and repeatedly warned the US of the threat he posed...

After 911....Dims still continued to rant about Saddam and WMD and repeatedly warned the US of the threat he posed...

After Bush retaliated against AQ in Afgan. ...Dims still ranted about Saddam and WMD and repeatedly warned the US of the threat he posed...

Then .... enough Dims voted with the Repubs. to PASS the War Resolution


ALL THIS IS FACT...and all this had its effects on future decisions and happenings....
Yet ...its all of these facts of history that you completely ignore or play down to imply that all this had no effect on events....


No one denies Bush made the final decision...but he didn't do it in a vacuum...
Sorry dude...lying to yourself to defend your party it what you do...
Is it possible you don't realize you do it ?

But George Bush, the idiot, tricked the democrats. They were duped and are therefore not responsible for ANYTHING that has happened in America since that fateful day. Zip Nada
 
Back
Top