Walmart v. the National Football League

F

flaja

New member
The National Football League is a 501(c)(6) corporation. The League functions like a chamber of commerce designed to promote the business interests of its members, i.e., the football teams.

The NFL knows that it cannot follow the normal capitalist model where members of an industry compete with each other striving to eliminate each other so they can maximize their own individual profits. The NFL knows that if any of its member teams were allowed to dominate the League the outcome of each NFL season would be a foregone conclusion. The games would get boring, people would stop paying to watch them and the entire League would go bankrupt.

So the purpose of the NFL is to see to it each member of its industry survives so the entire industry can be profitable. The NFL does this by seeing to it that no single team makes so much money that it can buy all of the best raw materials, i.e., football players, and thereby have an unfair advantage over the other teams. My understanding is that for all practical purpose the owner of each team owns only one-half of the team with the League owning the other half. The team owners then own an equal share of the League. Each team owner owns one-half of his own team and part of every other team in the League.

Are there other industries that could follow the NFL model? Are there industries that would be more profitable or provide more consumer satisfaction if its members cooperated with each other instead of competed with each other?
 
The sports leagues have specific monopoly exemptions. Industries that actually produce something do not usually have exemptions.
 
uscitizen said:
The sports leagues have specific monopoly exemptions. Industries that actually produce something do not usually have exemptions.
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That is not the point. Companies like Walmart conduct business for the express purpose of eliminating competitors and thus making themselves monopolies meaning they intentionally try to shrink the economy to their advantage.

Ecology is the branch of biology that studies the interrelationship between living things and their environment from the individual to the ecosystem to the entire biosphere of planet earth.

I think we should borrow the ecological concept of buffering and apply it to politics when it comes to economic matters.

A large ecosystem that has many individual organisms and many different species of organisms is buffered. This means that a single disruption in any part of the ecosystem will not have a major effect on the rest of the ecosystem. If species A can only eat species B, anything that disrupts species B could have catastrophic effects on species A. At the same time if an ecosystem has only 1 population of species A, then the least little thing that affects that population could devastate the entire species. But if species A can eat species B, C and D, species A will have a better chance of survival should anything happen to either one of species B, C or D. And having several different populations of species A will make that species’ long-term survival in the ecosystem more likely.

If we replace species with business, then we can apply the concept of buffering to the economy. For example, the U.S. has only 3 U.S. owned (or is it 2- I don’t know about Chrysler at the moment) auto manufacturers. This means that if any one of these manufacturers has a problem the entire U.S. auto industry is threatened. The more manufacturers we have the less likely a disruption with any one of them will be catastrophic to the economy. In the same vein the more auto manufacturers we have the more consumer choice there is (we wouldn’t all have to ride around in trucks and SUVs because that is what the big 3 tell us we can buy) and the more chance auto workers displaced from one company will have to find work in the same industry.

Personally I don’t think the loss of the big 3 in Detroit would be all that great a loss. The woes of the auto industry are not kitchen table issues for most Americans. But Walmart is another example that is very much a kitchen table issue.

The history of retail trade where I live over my 41 year lifetime aptly reflects the results of letting a single business species come to dominate an economic ecosystem.

Store here in 1968, but out of business before Walmart first opened here in 1987 (stores that I am aware of; there may be others):
Grants
J M Fields
Woolco
Sun Discount
Atlantic Mills

Stores not here when Walmart opened, entered market after Walmart opened but now out of business:
Phar-mor
Drug Emporium
Luria’s
Everything’s $1
Circuit City
Hollywood Video
Uptons
Mervyns

Stores here before Walmart opened but now out of business:
Montgomery Ward’s (a Sears-type store)/Jefferson Ward’s (a Kmart-type store)
Pic-n-Save
Zayer’s/Ames
Standard Sales/Leeds/Service Merchandise
Diana Shop
Strawberry Fields
Western Auto
TG&Y, McCrory, Murphy’s/Murphy’s Mart (same parent company)
Revco
Count Sears/Kmart as loss of 1 store due to merger

Stores here before Walmart opened, closed then reopened and closed again:
Jefferson Ward’s/Montgomery Ward’s

Stores that entered the market after Walmart opened and still open:
Big Lots/Odd Lots/McFrugal (has fewer stores now than it used to have)
Dollar Tree
Target
Best Buy
H H Gregg
Blockbuster
Kohl’s
Beall’s/Beall’s outlet

Stores here when Walmart opened and still here:
Sears/Kmart
Wallgreens
Eckerd’s Drugs/CVS
J C Penney’s

Specialty stores (compete with Walmart in a limited number of product categories) that have opened since the 1st Walmart and still open:
Michael’s Craft and Decorating
A.C. More (only 1 store for a metropolitan area of 1,000,000+ people)
Garden Ridge (only 1 local location, but next to a locally owned craft supply store that has closed after being in business for 30+ years)
Bed Bath and Beyond

Specialty stores open before Walmart but now closed:
Old America Store (general arts and craft and home décor)
Wacamaw (arts and craft, home décor, kitchenware).
Linens ‘n Things

Upscale stores, not direct competitors with Walmart:
Still present:
Ivey’s/Dillards
May Cohens/Maison Blanche/Gayfers/Belk

Out of business
Furchgott’s (may have been a locally owned store)
Jacobsen’s (may have been a locally owned store)

The NFL is designed to give consumers maximum choice among providers thus insuring that each member of the League can not only survive but make money doing so. Walmart’s business model is to intentionally deny consumers any choice among members of the retail sales industry meaning Walmart itself is not as stable as it used to be.
 
flaja, are you mentally deficient in some way? I'm trying to peg what you are politically, but you're all over the map. some posts depict you as a conservative while others have you smack dab in the middle of liberal la la land. Are you an 18 yr old college student or a 63 yr old ready to retire?

try researching a bit about an issue before you go spouting off thinking you know where life went wrong.
 
flaja said:
The NFL is designed to give consumers maximum choice among providers thus insuring that each member of the League can not only survive but make money doing so. Walmart’s business model is to intentionally deny consumers any choice among members of the retail sales industry meaning Walmart itself is not as stable as it used to be.
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The NFL is certainly not trying to maximize the choices we have. You have only to look at the difficulties in getting expansion teams into the NFL to see this.

They have a set number of teams. They are owned by a select few people. They do not want competition. They are interested in making a level playing field in the hopes of keeping their fan base large.
 
WinterBorn said:
The NFL is certainly not trying to maximize the choices we have. You have only to look at the difficulties in getting expansion teams into the NFL to see this.
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The NFL tries to maximize consumer choice in that it tries to preserve the existing teams.

They have a set number of teams.
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My understanding is that a single expansion team is not possible because when a team plays a game it must have another team to play against. The entire League must maintain an even number of teams, so one expansion team automatically means two expansions teams. And the expansion of the League is dependent on investment money- a lack of which can prevent the creation of new teams.

I wouldn't expect Walmart to help create a new chain of retail stores, but is it too much to ask that Walmart not engage in predatory business practices so I don’t suffer as a consumer?
 
Stores open now with Wal Mart in My town.

JC Penny
K Mart
4 national Chain drugstores (one on either end of Wally world parking lot)
Sears
Krogers
IGA


These are just the big chain stores. Many smaller stores and even 2 local pharmacies and 2 local hardware stores.

Actually more stores in the area since Wal Mart built here.

I think only roses and Piggly Wiggly left. I am not sure if either one of those still exist anywhere or not.
 
uscitizen said:
Stores open now with Wal Mart in My town.

JC Penny
K Mart
4 national Chain drugstores (one on either end of Wally world parking lot)
Sears
Krogers
IGA
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When did the first Walmart open in your town? And just where could you be that you didn't have a JC Penny or a Kmart or a Sears before you had a Walmart? Towns haven't been that small or that remote in America (outside of maybe Alaska or Hawaii) in a good 70 years.

And just how many other stores have closed since Walmart came to your town?
 
flaja said:
When did the first Walmart open in your town? And just where could you be that you didn't have a JC Penny or a Kmart or a Sears before you had a Walmart? Towns haven't been that small or that remote in America (outside of maybe Alaska or Hawaii) in a good 70 years.

And just how many other stores have closed since Walmart came to your town?
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There is no Sears, JC Pennies, ETC in our entire county (the closest thing we have is a "Big R" and only those who are in remote areas like mine will have any idea what that is), all of the gas stations are privately owned, businesses are all privately owned and not franchises because the population will not support the franchise requirements, the first Walmart will open this year. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
 
Damocles said:
There is no Sears, JC Pennies, ETC in our entire county (the closest thing we have is a "Big R" and only those who are in remote areas like mine will have any idea what that is), all of the gas stations are privately owned, businesses are all privately owned and not franchises because the population will not support the franchise requirements, the first Walmart will open this year. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
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So you are lecturing me on the effects of Walmart in your town when that Walmart hasn't even opened? Do some research on what has happened to small town businesses after Walmart arrives.
 
flaja said:
So you are lecturing me on the effects of Walmart in your town when that Walmart hasn't even opened? Do some research on what has happened to small town businesses after Walmart arrives.
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No, I am lecturing you on how many towns and cities are more rural than your self-assured arrogant post previous, wherein you insisted that no place like the one I live in existed for "years".

You know, this post:

flaja said:
When did the first Walmart open in your town? And just where could you be that you didn't have a JC Penny or a Kmart or a Sears before you had a Walmart? Towns haven't been that small or that remote in America (outside of maybe Alaska or Hawaii) in a good 70 years.

And just how many other stores have closed since Walmart came to your town?
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I have bolded the important piece there. You have no clue what you are talking about, and begin with a premise that is foolishly certain of an "impossibility" that doesn't exist. From that you create a preposterous "knowledge" based on nothing remotely close to what reality brings to bear. The closest town to me is 18 miles away, and I will bet that their locally owned stores will not be able to compete with Walmart. Shoot just the suggestion that Home Depot was going to come almost closed the hardware store.
 
Goodness, it is amazing what some people can come up with.

The NFL is, for all practical purposes, a functioning monopoly. They have within them, a number of teams. And Walmart has a whole friggin bunch of stores. The teams DO NOT operate independently. They are a FUNCTIONAL PART of the NFL, just as a single Walmart store is a functional part of the corporation. NFL teams play the game of football with each other - but that is not competition from an economical standpoint. Playing the game of football is their PRODUCT. Economically they are all part of a single unit: the NFL.

Real "competition" for the NFL would be another set of football teams who played each other for the the entertainment value, but NOT with any NFL teams. More than one attempt has been made to create such entities, such as the World Football League back in the mid 70s. The NFL squashed them like bugs. So much for "not following the normal capitalist market".
 
Damocles said:
No, I am lecturing you on how many towns and cities are more rural than your self-assured arrogant post previous, wherein you insisted that no place like the one I live in existed for "years".
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And I still doubt that you are being completely truthful.
 
Good Luck said:
Goodness, it is amazing what some people can come up with.

The NFL is, for all practical purposes, a functioning monopoly. They have within them, a number of teams. And Walmart has a whole friggin bunch of stores. The teams DO NOT operate independently. They are a FUNCTIONAL PART of the NFL, just as a single Walmart store is a functional part of the corporation.
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That's my whole point, jackass. I want to know if the NFL model could be used by other industries. If Walmart had a vested interest in preserving its competitors, then maybe Walmart wouldn't work so hard to drive its competitors into oblivion and the overall economy would be bigger and consumers would have more economic freedom in the process. The few retail chains that are left where I live (a metropolitan area of over a million people) know that the most they have to do now is match Walmart in price, customer service and product selection because they know the consumer’s only other option is Walmart. More often than not if a particular product or a particular brand is not carried by Walmart you won’t buy it because nobody in town will have it.
 
flaja said:
That's my whole point, jackass. I want to know if the NFL model could be used by other industries. If Walmart had a vested interest in preserving its competitors, then maybe Walmart wouldn't work so hard to drive its competitors into oblivion and the overall economy would be bigger and consumers would have more economic freedom in the process. The few retail chains that are left where I live (a metropolitan area of over a million people) know that the most they have to do now is match Walmart in price, customer service and product selection because they know the consumer’s only other option is Walmart. More often than not if a particular product or a particular brand is not carried by Walmart you won’t buy it because nobody in town will have it.
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It flew completely over your pointed head, didn't it? Have you ANY concept of real economics?

The NFL runs a number of football teams. These teams are NOT economic competitors with each other. There is not "vested interest in preserving competitors" within the NFL. The teams play against each other (ie: "compete") in the game of football. But in economic terms, playing football is the CONSUMER PRODUCT of the NFL. Just as individual Walmart stores scattered across this nation in carefully selected areas large enough to provide the consumer demand a Walmart store needs to be profitable, the NFL runs teams scattered across the nation in carefully selected areas able to economically support a professional football team. But, just as individual Walmart stores are not competing with each other within the Walmart corporation, the teams of the NFL are NOT economic competitors. They play football and SELL the entertainment value of that activity. The NFL maintains the teams because with fewer teams they'd have less product to sell the public. The interest of the NFL is entirely interior, and they DISCOURAGE competition, as their successful negative reaction to the World Football League proves.

Modeling other industries after the NFL is like asking Walmart to put everyone else out of business so they could concentrate only on keeping Walmart stores healthy. I think that's about the opposite of what you want to do.
 
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