what is the anti-abortion position on IUDs

[Don Quixote]

if life begins at conception and an iud prevents the zygote or blastocyst from attaching to the uterine wall thereby aborting the product of conception

also, what is the position on birth control pills

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

if life begins at conception and an iud prevents the zygote or blastocyst from attaching to the uterine wall thereby aborting the product of conception

also, what is the position on birth control pills

I often wonder why abortion advocates post questions like these. Is it to assuage your guilt in some way? What sort of information could you hope to possibly gain here? Isn't it about confirming what you have chosen to tell yourself, that the life of the unborn doesn't matter?

Technically speaking, a zygote or blastocyst is a unique living human organism, it becomes this at conception, and nothing in science or biology disputes this. There are people in our society, who feel human life is sacred, and should never be destroyed by man under any circumstance. I would suspect these people most likely do not endorse IUD usage, and some may not believe in birth control of any kind. What they support for their society, is their right and opinion, and they are fully entitled to have it. You don't get to decide what they support and condone because you are not who these individuals answer to.

Abortion is a complex issue in our time, and one that is not easily solved, mainly because of a complete lack of understanding on both sides. Pro-lifer's believe in sanctity of life, and they won't budge... Pro-choicer's believe in a woman's right to choose, and won't budge.

My personal and political views on abortion differ, and it is because I understand we live in a homogeneous society and should have laws that govern accordingly. Personally, I am pro-life, it is never any question. Politically, I would like for us to come to terms with some facts, and honestly establish some criteria for what we are doing as a society.

The fact that most needs to be accepted is, life begins at conception. At that moment, it becomes a unique human life, and calling it something else, or pretending it is something other than a human life, is foolish and irrelevant. It's not something else, it won't be something else, it is a human life. Accept it! Understand it!

From that point, we can begin to have a reasonable and civil debate as a reasonable and civilized society, when people should be allowed to terminate a human life. I would think we might be able to draw a reasonable solution between 'never' and 'partially birthed' and at least make abortion something more serious than getting a pedicure. I don't begrudge women a choice, I think women deserve a choice, in birth control, in whether to have unprotected sex, and if they are raped or their life is at risk... but to just say they arbitrarily have the right to end human life at any stage of pregnancy, is bit extreme for me. I don't think any human has that right or should be allowed that choice.

 

[Blackflag]

I think the more hardcore whackos consider IUD and birth control as abortion.

 

[Don Quixote]

I often wonder why abortion advocates post questions like these. Is it to assuage your guilt in some way? What sort of information could you hope to possibly gain here? Isn't it about confirming what you have chosen to tell yourself, that the life of the unborn doesn't matter?

Technically speaking, a zygote or blastocyst is a unique living human organism, it becomes this at conception, and nothing in science or biology disputes this. There are people in our society, who feel human life is sacred, and should never be destroyed by man under any circumstance. I would suspect these people most likely do not endorse IUD usage, and some may not believe in birth control of any kind. What they support for their society, is their right and opinion, and they are fully entitled to have it. You don't get to decide what they support and condone because you are not who these individuals answer to.

Abortion is a complex issue in our time, and one that is not easily solved, mainly because of a complete lack of understanding on both sides. Pro-lifer's believe in sanctity of life, and they won't budge... Pro-choicer's believe in a woman's right to choose, and won't budge.

My personal and political views on abortion differ, and it is because I understand we live in a homogeneous society and should have laws that govern accordingly. Personally, I am pro-life, it is never any question. Politically, I would like for us to come to terms with some facts, and honestly establish some criteria for what we are doing as a society.

The fact that most needs to be accepted is, life begins at conception. At that moment, it becomes a unique human life, and calling it something else, or pretending it is something other than a human life, is foolish and irrelevant. It's not something else, it won't be something else, it is a human life. Accept it! Understand it!

From that point, we can begin to have a reasonable and civil debate as a reasonable and civilized society, when people should be allowed to terminate a human life. I would think we might be able to draw a reasonable solution between 'never' and 'partially birthed' and at least make abortion something more serious than getting a pedicure. I don't begrudge women a choice, I think women deserve a choice, in birth control, in whether to have unprotected sex, and if they are raped or their life is at risk... but to just say they arbitrarily have the right to end human life at any stage of pregnancy, is bit extreme for me. I don't think any human has that right or should be allowed that choice.

i do not agree with your position

i think that a woman needs to make that decision with the advise of her physician and if she chooses, her spiritual adviser

i would advise any female member of my family not to have an abortion as i have seen the results of such decisions, however, if she choose to go ahead, then i would go with her and give her whatever support that i could


this nation and others treats human life cheaply when it come to children that have been born - look at the abuse of children despite efforts to support them

our educational system and medical system fails poor children and even children of middle class families yet how many actively and successfully work to assuage those abuses

this nation has the highest infant mortality rate of any first world nation

prenatal, natal and post natal care is necessary for the proper development of any child into a healthy adult

there was one pro-life group that i whole heartedly approved of - they offered prenatal and natal care with adoption to any woman that would accept their services - they put their money where their beliefs were

i too prefer birth control over abortion - but, i have seen too many women (some of them minors) that did not know about birth control or even conception due to their parent's decision to keep them in the dark

we may not be as far apart as it seems - take care

 

[uscitizen]

Funny thing happened down at the country store hangout a week or so ago.
One of the old pro war guys was keeping going on about IUD's killing all our boys in Iraq....

I tried to correct him, but you know how right wingers are ...
He insisted they were IUD's not IED's.
darn McSame voters.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

i do not agree with your position

i think that a woman needs to make that decision with the advise of her physician and if she chooses, her spiritual adviser

i would advise any female member of my family not to have an abortion as i have seen the results of such decisions, however, if she choose to go ahead, then i would go with her and give her whatever support that i could


this nation and others treats human life cheaply when it come to children that have been born - look at the abuse of children despite efforts to support them

our educational system and medical system fails poor children and even children of middle class families yet how many actively and successfully work to assuage those abuses

this nation has the highest infant mortality rate of any first world nation

prenatal, natal and post natal care is necessary for the proper development of any child into a healthy adult

there was one pro-life group that i whole heartedly approved of - they offered prenatal and natal care with adoption to any woman that would accept their services - they put their money where their beliefs were

i too prefer birth control over abortion - but, i have seen too many women (some of them minors) that did not know about birth control or even conception due to their parent's decision to keep them in the dark

we may not be as far apart as it seems - take care

Well, you start by saying you don't agree with my position, then you give a list of reasons you completely agree with me! About the only aspect you disagree on, is this supposed "right" you think women are somehow entitled, to decide when to terminate a human life. Yes, I realize the human life is living and residing inside the woman's body, but is that really much different than an infant living in the guardianship of any parent? It seems, we don't arbitrarily decide it's okay for 'burdened' parents to off their kids if they so choose, so why do you think a woman somehow has this right during pregnancy? Yes, it is sad that so many children are unwanted and abused, we still don't condone killing them to alleviate the problem!

I don't have a problem with a woman being allowed to make the decision under certain unmitigated circumstances. As long as we have a frank discussion and understanding about the magnitude of what is being done here. I don't seek to impose my own personal moralities on others, but there is something fundamentally immoral about terminating innocent human life for the sake of convenience or vanity, and I am just not comfortable with it in a civilized society. Make some rules, define some guidelines, put some restriction on this, but don't continue to insist it is some "right" of the woman to make this choice under any circumstance for any reason.

 

[Don Quixote]

Well, you start by saying you don't agree with my position, then you give a list of reasons you completely agree with me! About the only aspect you disagree on, is this supposed "right" you think women are somehow entitled, to decide when to terminate a human life. Yes, I realize the human life is living and residing inside the woman's body, but is that really much different than an infant living in the guardianship of any parent? It seems, we don't arbitrarily decide it's okay for 'burdened' parents to off their kids if they so choose, so why do you think a woman somehow has this right during pregnancy? Yes, it is sad that so many children are unwanted and abused, we still don't condone killing them to alleviate the problem!

I don't have a problem with a woman being allowed to make the decision under certain unmitigated circumstances. As long as we have a frank discussion and understanding about the magnitude of what is being done here. I don't seek to impose my own personal moralities on others, but there is something fundamentally immoral about terminating innocent human life for the sake of convenience or vanity, and I am just not comfortable with it in a civilized society. Make some rules, define some guidelines, put some restriction on this, but don't continue to insist it is some "right" of the woman to make this choice under any circumstance for any reason.

life is not innocent

all life lives at the expense of other life - all life competes for food - some life is more successful than others - an argument can be made that the life growing within a woman is a parasite and that children in general are parasites and so are the elderly

as far as human society is concerned, human reproduction is necessary to the continuation of human society - but what about when there are more humans than society can manage - then some must die, but who does the selecting - in some societies children were killed and others elders were killed - as far as human society is concerned, continued existence and domination is the only morality

it is perhaps sad, but we only have the morality that we can afford

we have not gotten around to killing off unwanted children, elders, the infirm or unproductive (directly that is, but they do die from being unwanted) yet, but it has happened

genocide occurs

 

[Timshel]

If life begins at conception, when do we start investigating the deaths of all those fertilized eggs that don't result in pregnancy? Should women that have had a partial hysterectomy be barred from having sex or arrested for doing so since the act so frequently results in "death"?

 

[Don Quixote]

If life begins at conception, when do we start investigating the deaths of all those fertilized eggs that don't result in pregnancy? Should women that have had a partial hysterectomy be barred from having sex or arrested for doing so since the act so frequently results in "death"?

yep, confine all females into harems and require that the have children or die

oh and take away their right to vote at the same time

 

[Cancel11]

if life begins at conception and an iud prevents the zygote or blastocyst from attaching to the uterine wall thereby aborting the product of conception

also, what is the position on birth control pills

Impossible to determine, and therefore must be left to individual conscience.

But, I will say this. The intent of the BCP is to prevent pregnancy. The intent of abortion is to kill a living human being. The two are very different.

 

[Cancel11]

If life begins at conception, when do we start investigating the deaths of all those fertilized eggs that don't result in pregnancy? Should women that have had a partial hysterectomy be barred from having sex or arrested for doing so since the act so frequently results in "death"?

You're too smart for such horseshit, RS.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

life is not innocent

Point taken, however, the unborn human is the most innocent of all human life.

all life lives at the expense of other life - all life competes for food - some life is more successful than others - an argument can be made that the life growing within a woman is a parasite and that children in general are parasites and so are the elderly

A parasite is indeed an organism which feeds off a host, but this particular 'parasite' was caused by the host, and is a human. Yes, so are children and the elderly, and even people on government assistance, should we terminate their lives too?

as far as human society is concerned, human reproduction is necessary to the continuation of human society - but what about when there are more humans than society can manage - then some must die, but who does the selecting - in some societies children were killed and others elders were killed - as far as human society is concerned, continued existence and domination is the only morality

it is perhaps sad, but we only have the morality that we can afford

Yes, we should think of how much money could be saved if we start terminating welfare recipients and the homeless. Let's go ahead and terminate handicapped people and the mentally ill as well. While we're at it, let's terminate all criminals, no need for all these 'parasites' in our society!

Civilized human morality is much more than a matter of existence and domination. At some point in time, we decided it might be more humane to empathize and care for other human beings, and we became civilized. The cornerstone of our civilization, is respect for life.

If we were a bunch of barbarians living in caves, I would say, sure... abort away! Who cares? But we are supposed to be a civilized moral society. That doesn't mean 'moral' in the sense that we must all observe the Word of God and pray... it means we are supposed to behave in a manner of universal moral human decency. Atheist's insist all the time, morality can exist without spirituality, but wouldn't general respect for human life be the most basic test of that idea?

we have not gotten around to killing off unwanted children, elders, the infirm or unproductive (directly that is, but they do die from being unwanted) yet, but it has happened

genocide occurs

It almost sounds as if you are trying to justify a pro-abortion stance, based on the fact you think our civilized society will eventually degrade to this level anyway, so why fight against it? Morality is going to hell, so why try to have any? Is that truly what you believe?

 

[Timshel]

You're too smart for such horseshit, RS.

If life begins at conception then what do you do about these issues. It is an untenable position, because it requires an extreme amount of exceptions to avoid absurd outcomes. Now if you want to argue life begins once pregnancy is achieved or at some later point that's different.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

If life begins at conception...

Let's stop right here and clarify... life DOES begin at conception.

You can ask any convoluted hypothetical question you like after we get that fact of science and biology cleared up. Human life starts at the moment of conception. It doesn't start being a living human organism three weeks after conception, six weeks, six months, etc. It begins being what it is, the moment it is conceived, a living human organism. A human life!

Before we can entertain any further dialogue on what to do about it, we must first come to terms with this fact, it is crucially important to do so. We're not talking about discarding a parasitic bug or clump of cells, a toenail or kidney, we are talking about a distinctly unique living human life.

 

[theMAJORITY]

All right--down to reality with the abortion issue. Row vrs Wade happened when--back in the 60's? A decision was made back then that has not been reversed yet, but the issue still remains main stream. I am not for abortion, or against it because I can understand the valid view points of both sides. On one hand, we have a women who should have individual choices on what to do with her body (watermark-you can't use them for your argument--because you think they are too stupid to make such decisions--being the young commie you are). As a individualist, I respect that right every body should have. On the other hand, I can see it as fetal murder also, and that body has a right to live the life they choose to live--if they get a choice.

to me--the topic of abortion has turned into a question to use as a indicator of the morality of the person being asked---but the morality exists on both sides. 20 years ago, my old GF and I made the decision to have a abortion, and I am not proud of it. At the time, it seemed like the logical thing to do because neither of us were on our feet enough to support a child without making our community help. I think it was the logical choice---but I would like to be a dad right now also. I would love to raise a family of self supporting individuals--and watch them do amazing things with their individuality--like Americans used to be allowed to do more easliy than today--because of big government in our pockets.

My conclusion right now--the abortion question is nothing more than a indicator in a feeble effort to access the morality of the questioned. It does not usually answer any question of morality IMO.

McCain may be pro life---but his morality to his own country men when it comes to illegal immergration and privacy of citizens negativitly trumps his morality on abortion IMO.