Where does wealth come from?

O

Onceler

New member
I just heard our new political leader, "Joe the P", say to a news crew outside his driveway that "wealth doesn't come from the bottom up" (along with a few other things that kind of gave away his agenda).

It got me thinking...where does it come from? Let's take the case of Joe the P.....what is more likely to make him wealthy?

A CEO who makes several millions dollars a year getting a tax break?

or

Lifting the circumstances of millions of middle class families, though tax breaks, investment in education & cheaper energy costs.

It seems to me, that when the latter happens, many more people will renovate their bathrooms, renovate their kitchens & keep plumbers like Joe the P. busy with as much work as they can handle.

I'm getting a funny feeling about this election; it feels like people are going to be easily fooled into voting against their self-interest, once again.
 
Onceler said:
I'm getting a funny feeling about this election; it feels like people are going to be easily fooled into voting against their self-interest, once again.
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I would agree. It looks very likely that we will have one party in control of all three houses. Historically that has been a disaster for our country.

Very good point Lorax.
 
Onceler said:
I just heard our new political leader, "Joe the P", say to a news crew outside his driveway that "wealth doesn't come from the bottom up" (along with a few other things that kind of gave away his agenda).

It got me thinking...where does it come from? Let's take the case of Joe the P.....what is more likely to make him wealthy?

A CEO who makes several millions dollars a year getting a tax break?

or

Lifting the circumstances of millions of middle class families, though tax breaks, investment in education & cheaper energy costs.

It seems to me, that when the latter happens, many more people will renovate their bathrooms, renovate their kitchens & keep plumbers like Joe the P. busy with as much work as they can handle.

I'm getting a funny feeling about this election; it feels like people are going to be easily fooled into voting against their self-interest, once again.
Click to expand...

as I have said I think the trillion would have a more positicve impact on our economy by giving it to propel and restricting it to pay of debts.

Remember we are 2/3 comsumer spending driven, if people have less or no debt.....
 
Onceler said:
I just heard our new political leader, "Joe the P", say to a news crew outside his driveway that "wealth doesn't come from the bottom up" (along with a few other things that kind of gave away his agenda).

It got me thinking...where does it come from? Let's take the case of Joe the P.....what is more likely to make him wealthy?

A CEO who makes several millions dollars a year getting a tax break?

or

Lifting the circumstances of millions of middle class families, though tax breaks, investment in education & cheaper energy costs.

It seems to me, that when the latter happens, many more people will renovate their bathrooms, renovate their kitchens & keep plumbers like Joe the P. busy with as much work as they can handle.

I'm getting a funny feeling about this election; it feels like people are going to be easily fooled into voting against their self-interest, once again.
Click to expand...

Maybe my view is skewered by where I'm from. I worked in the Silicon Valley for awhile and it is a very entrepreneurial area. A lot of the start-up companies are funded by venture capital. That venture capital money often comes from well to do individuals. I belief it is important to financially incentivize these type of people to invest as that's where our future Googles and E-Bay's often come from. And by financially incentivize I mean by not placing punitive tax measures on them.

I just got called into an office I'll continue after.
 
cawacko said:
Maybe my view is skewered by where I'm from. I worked in the Silicon Valley for awhile and it is a very entrepreneurial area. A lot of the start-up companies are funded by venture capital. That venture capital money often comes from well to do individuals. I belief it is important to financially incentivize these type of people to invest as that's where our future Googles and E-Bay's often come from. And by financially incentivize I mean by not placing punitive tax measures on them.

I just got called into an office I'll continue after.
Click to expand...

they have the money, that is wealth. They pay taxes on income not existing wealth. why I speak of distribution of income.
 
Onceler said:
I just heard our new political leader, "Joe the P", say to a news crew outside his driveway that "wealth doesn't come from the bottom up" (along with a few other things that kind of gave away his agenda).

It got me thinking...where does it come from? Let's take the case of Joe the P.....what is more likely to make him wealthy?

A CEO who makes several millions dollars a year getting a tax break?

or

Lifting the circumstances of millions of middle class families, though tax breaks, investment in education & cheaper energy costs.

It seems to me, that when the latter happens, many more people will renovate their bathrooms, renovate their kitchens & keep plumbers like Joe the P. busy with as much work as they can handle.

I'm getting a funny feeling about this election; it feels like people are going to be easily fooled into voting against their self-interest, once again.
Click to expand...

That 'funny feeling' probably means you need to potty, Onezies!

Let me explain it to you... when you tax the fuck out of corporations (CEO's) and "the wealthy", they are not just going to say... Oh, here Obama, take my money and redistribute it! Nope... they are going to pull it out of the market, and send it overseas where it is safe... they are going to start laying off workers and not hiring new ones, because they will not be 'growing' any more in business. This means, not only are you going to not have their money to spend, but millions of middle class Americans who depended on those jobs, aren't going to have money to spend either. In your foolish attempt to take something that doesn't belong to you, and give it to people who aren't entitled to it, you destroy the economy and the tax base, and bankrupt the whole system... then the whole shebang goes right down the tubes, as you dwell in your socialist bureaucracy, scratching your little wooden pinhead, wondering why it didn't work like you planned.
 
Dixie said:
That 'funny feeling' probably means you need to potty, Onezies!

Let me explain it to you... when you tax the fuck out of corporations (CEO's) and "the wealthy", they are not just going to say... Oh, here Obama, take my money and redistribute it! Nope... they are going to pull it out of the market, and send it overseas where it is safe... they are going to start laying off workers and not hiring new ones, because they will not be 'growing' any more in business. This means, not only are you going to not have their money to spend, but millions of middle class Americans who depended on those jobs, aren't going to have money to spend either. In your foolish attempt to take something that doesn't belong to you, and give it to people who aren't entitled to it, you destroy the economy and the tax base, and bankrupt the whole system... then the whole shebang goes right down the tubes, as you dwell in your socialist bureaucracy, scratching your little wooden pinhead, wondering why it didn't work like you planned.
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Your view, as always, is painfully simplistic.

Tell me, Dix - has "trickle down" worked?

And don't give me the Reagan years, because it took an unprecedented boom in the '90's to dig out of the deficit hole those years created.
 
You mean "Voodo Economics" as Bush I put it ?

The president that pleaded with us to buy stuff on credit to help the economy ?
 
And what good is all those greenbacks in a foreign country when our new printed currency will be redbacks? :guin:
 
uscitizen said:
they have the money, that is wealth. They pay taxes on income not existing wealth. why I speak of distribution of income.
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That being the case, where is the incentive to make more money? If I am rich, why the hell do I want to make more money, if most of it will end up being "redistributed" through your socialist policy of taxing me to death? Why would I be inclined to build a factory here in America, when my profits are going to be taxed out the ass, and I know I could build the same company in another country, with cheaper labor and less tax burden? I keep telling you idiots, "Rich People" didn't get to be that way by being STUPID! You seem to think they are just going to keep doing business as usual and let Obama take their earnings, and that isn't going to happen in the real world. One of the biggest problems you morons have is, you don't consider human behaviors... you assume everything just remains static... all the money and investments we've seen gained the past 10-20 years will just continue on the next 10-20 years, and nothing will change, but it will change... drastically! It's why you can't grasp the concept of lowering taxes to increase revenue... you don't understand it... in your pinhead way of thinking, RAISING the tax will bring in more revenues, but it doesn't, and hasn't ever! It's because of the human factor, because people find ways to protect their assets and don't invest when you tax the fuck out of them... but when you lower the taxes and restrictions, give them incentives to invest... they do... and the result is more jobs and greater tax revenues... happens every time it's been tried.
 
dixie don't forget that companies will often just pass the raised taxes off onto the consumer by raising prices on their goods...
 
Dixie said:
That being the case, where is the incentive to make more money? If I am rich, why the hell do I want to make more money, if most of it will end up being "redistributed" through your socialist policy of taxing me to death? Why would I be inclined to build a factory here in America, when my profits are going to be taxed out the ass, and I know I could build the same company in another country, with cheaper labor and less tax burden? I keep telling you idiots, "Rich People" didn't get to be that way by being STUPID! You seem to think they are just going to keep doing business as usual and let Obama take their earnings, and that isn't going to happen in the real world. One of the biggest problems you morons have is, you don't consider human behaviors... you assume everything just remains static... all the money and investments we've seen gained the past 10-20 years will just continue on the next 10-20 years, and nothing will change, but it will change... drastically! It's why you can't grasp the concept of lowering taxes to increase revenue... you don't understand it... in your pinhead way of thinking, RAISING the tax will bring in more revenues, but it doesn't, and hasn't ever! It's because of the human factor, because people find ways to protect their assets and don't invest when you tax the fuck out of them... but when you lower the taxes and restrictions, give them incentives to invest... they do... and the result is more jobs and greater tax revenues... happens every time it's been tried.
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the incentive is that you still make more money, just not quite as much.

also I still support tax breaks for longer term investments.
but the day and short term trading should be taxed at a higher rate.
Gambling should not be rewarded at a higher rate than true investment.
 
Grind said:
dixie don't forget that companies will often just pass the raised taxes off onto the consumer by raising prices on their goods...
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The market sets the prices of goods. Arbitrarily raising prices just means they'll sell less and miss the pique price/quantity mark and lose money because of it.
 
Onceler said:
Your view, as always, is painfully simplistic.

Tell me, Dix - has "trickle down" worked?

And don't give me the Reagan years, because it took an unprecedented boom in the '90's to dig out of the deficit hole those years created.
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"Trickle down" has been stigmatized by the left, it has nothing to do with the deficits. That is government spending that is out of control because of politicians promising us the moon to get elected. Even last night in the debate, it was apparent... neither candidate talked about the national debt, or the fucked up economy, they just yammered on and on about what they were going to give us if elected, it is a nasty cycle that has gone on for years, that is why we have a national debt. The "deficit" has always been in the red, even in the fabulous Clinton years, he just found a way to fool us by using our SS trust fund to make it appear he balanced the budget for a few years, that's all. In actuality, the budget wasn't really balanced.

The economic principles of Reagan policy most certainly did work, we had the longest peace-time growth and prosperity in the history of America under Reagan, and it would have continued if Bush Sr. had continued Reagan's policies... but he didn't. The basic idea behind "trickle down" is this... cut regulations and taxes on the people who have the money to invest, who have the capital to start up new ventures... who can create new jobs and economic growth... and they will!
 
ib1yysguy said:
The market sets the prices of goods. Arbitrarily raising prices just means they'll sell less and miss the pique price/quantity mark and lose money because of it.
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yep and a global market now.


One thing is certain our standard of living will drop. the only question is how far and how fast.
 
uscitizen said:
the incentive is that you still make more money, just not quite as much.

also I still support tax breaks for longer term investments.
but the day and short term trading should be taxed at a higher rate.
Gambling should not be rewarded at a higher rate than true investment.
Click to expand...

You can say... 'you'd still make more money, just not as much'... BUT... you can make more money by opening that new company up in another country, so why would a "rich person" not take the option to make the most money? There is no incentive to make money, when that money is going to be taxed at a higher rate than it's worth for you to make it. You can make more money with your money, by investing in other things, and that is exactly what will happen when Obama raises taxes.
 
Dixie said:
You can say... 'you'd still make more money, just not as much'... BUT... you can make more money by opening that new company up in another country, so why would a "rich person" not take the option to make the most money? There is no incentive to make money, when that money is going to be taxed at a higher rate than it's worth for you to make it. You can make more money with your money, by investing in other things, and that is exactly what will happen when Obama raises taxes.
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Idiot they have been moving offshore for years and the tax breaks have not done much to stem the flow. As I have said for years our standard of living will drop due to globalization.
 
uscitizen said:
Idiot they have been moving offshore for years and the tax breaks have not done much to stem the flow. As I have said for years our standard of living will drop due to globalization.
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We have the second highest Corporate taxes in the world currently. Why would any corporation stay if they had an option?
 
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